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2020 Great Gasmean Hill Climb - Preliminary 2 (restomod and heavy weights)


#41

I forgot about the lore again, didn’t I.

Crawlington Mobile Devices was founded in the 1960s with the intent to create vehicles unlike any others, both in looks and performance. Calling them just “cars” seemed like a disservice to the mission. Some of you may be familiar with their work. Others may just be confused by the name. That would be par for the course.

The company has made its name by producing astoundingly fast and, almost without exception, hideous looking motor vehicles. Through some magic of the free market, or let’s be honest, largely through the unlimited cash flow of the extraordinarily wealthy, the company has remained afloat.

Long Legs of the Law is not a Crawlington. It’s a side project of some Crawlington workers, which is to say they hijacked the engine from a Bonneville truck prototype and commandeered a significant portion of prototype production capacity for the chassis and shell without telling anyone.

Mostly because they didn’t want it to look like a Crawlington.

Due to the unique way in which Crawlington Mobile Devices is run, when the board found out about this, Team PoPo was told to bring back what’s left if it gets a podium, and not come back if it doesn’t.

It has quite a lot of power.

(Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised to see something cheaper, lighter, less powerful to beat it up the hill. It’s an exercise in excess.)


#42

what kind of stats are you packing in that?


#43

Just over 2900hp out of 12.7l, just over 2 tonnes in BeamNG (1.8t in Automation).

I started out with around 2500hp, using the old box van body. Unfortunately that could only get 245/275 tires (IIRC), which immediately proved woefully inadequate. And then this body got larger tires, but was heavier, so I felt obligated to add some more oomph.


#44

I feel somewhat underpowered here with just 950hp and some change, but just a tad over 1400 kgs and 275s all around does makes the Boulder pretty quick anyway


#45

Hey that’s pretty good. Are you getting reliability due to torque issues? That’s what ultimately limited my outputs is that I didn’t want to stress the internals otherwise I’d have amother 100-150hp easy.


#46

You’re using the wrong pistons.

Lightweight is lightweight. Need heavy duty stuff for heavy duty work. My pistons are in the red, make no mistake, but it’s because of RPM, not torque. You should be making 3200+hp pretty easily with your displacement.

I don’t necessarily think those last few hundred are worth the weight, but happily I ran out of space so I didn’t have to make that call on the LLotL.


#47

Ok fair, though if you give the engine a good rev in beam and there’s rev stress does that cause you damage (it should)? I’ve tuned my engine to have no excess stress whatsoever in Automation.


#48

It has been pretty well established that the transfer from Automation to Beam is not 100% consistent. Your piston rings being a case in point if you’re all green.

With reliability in Automation being of no importance in this challenge (and it is not uncommon for high grade racing engines to be rebuilt between events), testing is everything. My engine is happy as a clam sitting in the limiter in Beam.

If you want to keep it all green, and turbocharge it for max output, taking a V12 up to 15 litres seems like a waste, frankly. With the right components you’re better off limiting the stroke so you can rev higher. Just as much power, less weight. I threw together a quick test and 3k hp comes out of both 14 and 15l engines with zero stress. The end of the power curve is cut off, but there’s still plenty of useful range. If I was doing this seriously I’d try to go even lower.

Wasn’t building supercars your thing? I don’t mind helping at all, I’m just surprised you haven’t noticed.


#49

At first I was simply trying to find out more about the inconsistencies in export to Beam in an area that I don’t normally explore (using forged as opposed to lightweight forged pistons) but hmmmmmm actually now you’re making me pause for thought.

I think your surprise would be well placed if I had actually tried to eke out the absolute most from the engine from this challenge, but actually the bigger surprise is that I actually simply neglected to optimise the engine. For the last few months I’ve been torn between drowning in work and life admin and being addicted to the game and the former is currently winning by a long shot, so I actually only spent about 5 minutes on the engine and completely forgot to optimise stroke.

But of course you’re absolutely right. I do remember noticing that thing about the stroke which wasn’t always the case until more recent UE4 builds (by which I mean probably all of this calendar year). I think the other thing that tripped me up was that I haven’t attempted to build a really large engine at all this year ever since the 'egg body got its wheelbase readjusted and consequentially doesn’t fit ridiculous sized engines like I wanted to put in Jormungandr which IIRC I worked on up until December of last year. Since then the only other car I actually spent a lot of time on was Lilith and that was about 49% styling and 49% rejigging all the .jbeam files post-export.

Besides, big engines are heavy and I don’t like the Veyron/Chiron, or heavy supercars in general and as far as I’m concerned, the Devel is fake news. After that, what “supercar” has an engine above 8L displacement?


tl;dr yeah supercars are my thing but my time’s been limited so I’ve focused on some things and neglected others, which includes really big engines that don’t really go in supercars haha. You’re clearly more in a position to teach me than the other way around!

EDIT: hahahaha oh yeah I only just remembered. I really wasn’t min-maxing this thing when I made it, the valvetrain’s pushrod @HowlerAutomotive :joy:


#50

Hah, nice.

Ignoring fuel economy, I do recall pushrod still being kind of competitive in a sixties challenge (DBR) for the light weight. In 2020 I suspect a smaller 4 valve can beat the output too easily - although you lose all the flavour.

If it’s pushrod, I fully endorse the 15l capacity, because why not.


#51

Restomod Class



600 @Kyuu77 KGB Stealth GRU Edition

ATT Lap

General

The KGB Stealth was a crazy car on its own. A sleeping sedan powered by a 2.8 litre inline-5 engine placed longitudinally between the rear wheels was unusual to say the least.
The engine power in this restomod GRU Edition is increased to 327 horsepower, but this is actually still way below what the engine is capable off when fully stressed.

Design

Modernized while keeping the essential character of the car is always a challenge, but KGB pulled it off. The updated front end with modern lights and the eye for detail in the aero parts is much appreciated by the judges.

Driving

Understeer plagues the KGB at higher speeds. The modded frontal aero is clearly not doing enough to pull the front wheels into the road at speed. This is an expected issue with that strange lay-out. But overall, the KGB is responsive and feels modern.

Scoring

Decent design and driving characteristics are a good start, but the very high construction costs of this modification costs it points. The 02:07,756 time is not world-shocking either. The result is a rather disappointing 43 points.


601 @EddyBT BT Motors BTR Panthera XH GGHC

ATT Lap

General

The 1992 BT Motors Panthera XH was a perfectly decent practical 2 litre station car. The XH version had a turbocharged engine that produced a rather impressive for the time 164 horsepower. This amount has been increased to 400, while keeping most of the internal components the same.

Design

This is a proper retro look on the 90s station car. Only the giant rear wing betrays its hillclimb purpose. Aside from that, the styling and decals looks very touring car inspired. Probably the quirkiest change, are the short, hot-rod-like, exhaust exiting behind the front wheels. Technical review did detect a non-regulation seat. This had to be replaced before qualifying, and lead to a 2 point penalty.

Driving

Turning in great, as we are used to from BT Motors. It is a very enjoyable drive due to the suspension and braking tuning. It is perhaps not the fastest, but the combination package of looks, sound, turn-in, and feel, probably makes this the most fun one to drive.

Scoring

High production unit costs and the design penalty cost it points, but the decent lap time of 02:03,631, and the great driving characteristics give it a final score of 68 points.


602 @HowlerAutomotive Elmsley Condor Hillclimb WB

ATT Lap

General

The Elmsley Condor was a rather mundane family wagon in the 60s and 70s. I’m sure there quite a backstory behind the choice of this car for a hill-climb adaptation. The restomod amazingly remains rear-wheel driven, and with a full interior (albeit sport seats).

Design

The Elsmley team has made serious effort in the design of this car, with exquisite modern lighting features installed and impressively made decals. The detail is simply superb according to the jury.

Driving

Driving is not bad, but slightly disappointing. The car is very fast through the corners, despite the rear-wheel drive, but lackluster in a straight line. It lacks fun factor of the Panthera.

Scoring

A bit of an expensive car, but extremely solid otherwise. The lap time is quite fast as well: 02:02,588. The combination of all this means a very competitive score of 80 points.


603 @Machalel Boccaccino Silvanae Coupe Speciale Supremo

General

Tuned to over 250 horsepower, the Boccaccino is hardly to be called a powerhouse. This might not be enough to play any significant role here. The ladder chassis, the post-war suspension and rear-wheel drive might also not give the best driving experience.

Design

The Design is slightly updated but faithful to its late 40s design. Despite changes being subtle, it still looks modern and the Boccaccino would not stand amiss as a show piece at a car event or at a specialty dealer.

Driving

Due to the incredibly bad braking balance, the Boccaccino was deemed too unsafe to drive competitively. Even driving it at low speeds seems not particularly safe.

Scoring

On paper the design is not bad. It is a pity that the suspension and braking tune is unsuited to racing - or driving spirited in general. Despite not even driving, and getting no score for that, the gained points are actually quite impressive at 56 points.

Due to the lack of ATT Lap, here you can find some parking lot phone camera imagery.


604 @Machalel Epoch M30 Six Sport

ATT Lap

General

With only a smitch over 225 horsepower, this 1982 Epoch M30 is hardly a hill-climb restomod. Instead it is a nicely restored, slightly more nippy, 80’s sports sedan. It even regained its manual gearbox, although a sixth gear has been added.

Design

The Epoch has received a number of racing updates without the result really impressing. The base car is the same. Apart from some decals and a new hood, changes are limited.

Driving

It does not drive like a like hill-climb car at all, not has the handling received any meaning update from the 80’s sports sedan. The braking appears unbalanced and the rear has a tendency to snap in low speed corners.

Scoring

Overall a disappointing entry, though perhaps suitable for a collectors auction sale. The car is slow and not great to drive. Lap time is 02:19,504, and it scores lower that the Boccaccino, which didn’t even set a lap time, at 53 points.


605 @gridghost Scarab Flare RS 20

ATT Lap

General

Going Japanese hot-hatch tuning style, with a massive turbo on a purple hatch. With 413 horsepower under the hood in this lowered and weight-reduced Scarab Flare, this looks like a very solid entry. The Scarab Flare RS 20 was hit in the early to mid 90s as well in stock form, beloved in particular for its revvy engine and solid gearbox.

Design

It looks the part, with the giant wing, diffusers and intercooler. The jury is charmed by the relatively simple and clean approach, that is nonetheless typically 90s, yet with a modern twist.

Driving

Fast, nimble yet stable. Someone got the right design brief here. There is not much more to say here. It just lacks the fun factor of the BT Motors restomod, but it comes close.

Scoring

The fastest entry with the most power - although the organisation had put forward regulations to each restoration team that would allow up about the same amount of power. With a good score overall and the sub 2-minute time of 01:58,839, it takes the lead with 87 points.


606 @koolkei Komodo Excrudo FT

ATT Lap

General

The Komodo Excrudo FT makes a nice sound with that 3 litre turbo-charged inline-5. Its 356 horsepower is enough to give it some go as well. Especially noteworthy is the very high torque figure of 514 Nm. Again an entry that remain rear-wheel drive

Design

Big wheels, big spoilers, big fender flares, but otherwise very bland. It somehow even looks a bit dis-proportioned, which is a violation of the most important law of aesthetics.

Driving

With extremely long gears you’d expect no wheel spin. And while on acceleration this is true, the Komodo is still somehow extremely slidey. The ample amount of torque of the engine gives it some playing room within those long gears, but the time loss suffered by preventing it sliding of the circuit is too great to compensate.

Scoring

Overall quite disappointing, especially in terms of looks and drivability. The 02:08,164 is a reflection of that, despite the relatively high power in this class. End score is a nondescript 59 points.



Going on to the Hillclimb are the top 3:

User Car Total
605 gridghost Scarab Flare RS 20 87
602 HowlerAutomotive Elmsley Condor Hillclimb WB 80
601 EddyBT BT Motors BTR Panthera XH GGHC 68
606 koolkei Komodo Excrudo FT 59
603 Machalel Boccaccino Silvanae Coupe Speciale Supremo 56
604 Machalel Epoch M30 Six Sport 53
600 Kyuu77 KGB Stealth GRU Edition 43

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#52

Truck Class



800 @gridghost Scarab Boulder TAHC

ATT Lap

General

Based on the V8 version of Scarab’s work horse, the Scarab Boulder has been put on a crash diet and underwent steroid treatment. Now putting out a breath short of 1000 horsepower, this pick up truck will be quite the handful for the driver to twist up the mountain.

Design

Signature simplicity in the design from the Swedish brand. While the overall image is pleasing, this racing truck misses some detail and determining character. There is no wow-factor, nothing intimidating about this machine. Technical review did detect a non-regulation seat. This had to be replaced before qualifying, and leads to a 2-point penalty.

Driving

The impressive whine of the turbo-ed V8 almost drones out the squeals of those big rear tyres when the Boulder gets of the line. Speed, stability and grip are no issue in this behemoth, but the truck seems to suffer from the long top gears and inconsistent brake strength. These are issues that Scarab will need to solve to because the real top of racing.

Scoring

We’re used to Scarab scoring well by now, and the truck is no different with a 01:46,512 lap time and a score of 77 points.


801 @Vri404 Fennekin Crown U100 Syren Sportage Hillclimb

ATT Lap

General

The Fennekin Crown U100 Syren Sportage Hillclimb is a remake of the old Fennekin pickup truck. The fiberglass body stands on a modern racing truck chassis. Even the engine is inspired by the V10 truck engine that featured in the heaviest version of the old truck. The 6.5 litre engine is rather lazily turbocharged and apparently more tuned towards reliability than peak power.

Design

The design of the truck is obviously rather retro. Without being too complicated, it is well-executed. Especially the double wing on the bed is a striking feature.

Driving

When on the circuit, there are some concerns regarding stability under braking, an issue that is exacerbated by rapidly overheating brakes. It remains to be seen whether this might be an issue of very specific hill climb tuning or a general issue.

Scoring

Quite expensive to build and not the fastest with a 01:56,093 time, but solid overall with 68 points.


802 @HowlerAutomotive Team PoPo Long Legs of The Law

ATT Lap

General

An exercise in excess, the odd-ball Team Po-Po – people from Crawlington Mobile Devices acting on their own behalf – is sending out a 2900 horsepower behemoth.

Design

It’s a ridiculous 50’s inspired truck that Po-Po sent out here. Or, rather, it’s a fiber glass body inspired on 50’s design wrapped around a monster engine. At least there is a theme in the design, and the result is sleek looking.

Driving

The downforce is other-wordly. In fact, there is that much downforce that the Po-Po truck tops out at only 250 km/h, a speed that it reaches scarily fast though.

Scoring

01:34,044. And if time was all that mattered that was all that needed to be said. However, the Team Po-Po creation suffers from extremely high costs and maintenance. The points penalty for that is so big due to the extreme difference with the other entries that it strands behind the Fennekin at 66 points.


803 @Machalel Epoch Bear

ATT Lap

General

Epoch is not having the best competition here. We’re skeptical the Epoch Bear with its 920 horsepower 3,4 litre V8 is going to change much. The Bear is a standard work van - odd name for such a mundane vehicle - but the engine is anything but standard.

Design

It’s a box van. It looks like a box and a van in equal measure. Apologies for not getting excited from this one. The effort on the details and diffusers is well noted though.

Driving

Apart from the turning and braking part, this drives well. It is unclear whether it is the weight, length and shape of the car that cause the drivability to suffer or rather the tuning. But Epoch is never near competing.

Scoring

Despite the incredibly complicated and expensive engine, there is insufficient oomph in the Epoch. The 01:57,508 is not slow in general, but it is for this category. 54 points is the final verdict.


804 @strop Hercules Canyon Hillclimb

ATT Lap

General

The 2000 Hercules Canyon is a proper outback work horse, favored in rural areas. Somewhere, someone, somehow decided putting in a 15 litre 2300 horsepower V12 engine was a sensible idea. Chassis changes? None.

Design

The result of this madness is a proper hot-wheels effect. Possibly even more over the top than the Team Po-Po construction, the Hercules Canyon shouts “here I am” wherever it goes or stands.

Driving

It lacks braking for that combination of speed and weight, that much is sure. Apart from that the truck is remarkably stable and drivable. It burns fuel by the ton though, and even runs out just before the finish line.

Scoring

A disappointing final time of 01:49,775 because the monstrous Hercules ran out of fuel on the flying lap. Despite this, and contrary to the Team Po-Po creation, overall points are extremely good. This is how you cheaply make a horsepower monster that is actually controllable. Ex aequo with the Scarab at 77 points it sits.



The top three progresses to the hill climb:

User Car Total
800 gridghost Scarab Boulder TAHC 77
804 strop Hercules Canyon Hillclimb 77
801 Vri404 Fennekin Crown U100 Syren Sportage Hillclimb 68
802 HowlerAutomotive Team PoPo Long Legs of The Law 66
803 Machalel Epoch Bear 54

#53

Hillclimb Day


Due to the limited amount of contestants, there’s not much sense blocking the road for longer than a day.



In the morning, the Restomod Class is up for qualification. Up on top there is really no surprise as the Scarab Flare takes the lead. The hatchback is just faster and nippier than the competition.

Second place, the only other place that gives an entry ticket to the fabled hillclimb is where the fight takes place. Both the Elmsley as well as the BT Motors are suberb cars. The former has great corner grip, but you cannot count out the Panthera. And indeed, with it’s characteristic smoking side engine exhaust, the BT Motors BTR Panthera is the wagon that takes the cake. Not that the performance of the Elmsley Condor Hillclimb is bad, but it lacks that little bit more all-roundedness that the Panthera has.

User Car Time
605 @gridghost Scarab Flare RS 20 01:32,907
601 @EddyBT BT Motors BTR Panthera XH GGHC 01:34,086
602 @HowlerAutomotive Elmsley Condor Hillclimb WB 01:36,557

Afternoon is when the behemoths rise. Three trucks are ready at the start. The Scarab, again, comfortable in its earlier track performance, it are the other two that have got something to prove.

And prove they do, as the Scarab Boulder team is suddenly not that much at ease anymore. Their run was a good one, but the Hercules Canyon Hillclimb turns out to be quite fast when not running out of fuel.

Remarkably, the Fennekin Crown appears to not suffer any of the issues it had on the track. The braking is fine and the brakes hold up very well in the short acceleration and braking zones. In fact, the Fennekin is that fast that after both trucks finished, no one is quite sure who actually won that last final spot. It will take a nervous wait for the official times to find out.

User Car Time
804 @strop Hercules Canyon Hillclimb 01:30,853
800 @gridghost Scarab Boulder TAHC 01:32,341
801 @Vri404 Fennekin Crown U100 Syren Sportage Hillclimb 01:32,971


#54

Whew, second place! I’m glad that you found the Panthera fun!


#55

I see you went ahead with the what, 5L load of fuel or something instead of default which frankly I’m not sure there was any reason to do as fuel is weightless in beam and wouldn’t affect the simulation. Are you going to keep that same load on Pikes Peak? I mean i did enter a bit of a shitpost sure, but wouldn’t it just suck to be on a good run and then the engine dies halfway up the mountain?


#56

20 litres of fuel for all entries on the track. Yes, it drinks that much.

Are you sure it’s weightless? Anyway, you were the last one to run and it didn’t affect the outcome. It broke down on the straight towards the finish and it was slightly slower than the Scarab there (while faster on the hillclimb). So, I just stuck with it.

I actually just completed your Pikes Peak run. It barely used more fuel than the two laps on the Automation circuit. I was using a full tank there though.


#57

Ugh, not doing well in this challenge at all! :frowning:

I was going to change the suspension out of the Boccaccino, but couldn’t work out how to (since as soon as you have more than 1 trim its all locked down…). I obviously have a lot more to learn about suspension tuning, but lack of a wheel means it’s hard to get a feel for it.

The other two Epochs, well yeah, I made some dumb choices and got totally blindsided by entries with twice the power (which I should have expected)


#58

Huh ok I’ll have to review because I sure don’t recall it using that much (I ran more laps than that and didn’t run out and I can’t remember if there’s any way to alter the fuel burn rate). Do the piston rings crack for you too?


#59

I am a bit surprised to see the Condor be expensive, but the extra seats on their own are 2200 monies so fair enough. The fact it can’t quite keep up with newer, more powerful AWD cars accelerating out of the twisties is what it is. Does the Panthera also have a part-alu body? Curious about the weight difference. Part-alu wasn’t an option in the sixties, so the car clocked in at 1.4 tonnes in Beam (just under 1.2t in Automation) which seemed like a lot.

The LLotL was built to a self-set 100k budget. Sad it didn’t get to run up the hill, but then I knew going in the competition would beat it on price. I’m happy with the 1:34 though. Could have been almost as fast for considerably less money with an eight-banger+MFI, geared diff instead of electronic, fiberglass instead of CF and so on. A few seconds around ATT maybe - but then that wasn’t the point.

The lesson in all this is that building flavour pieces isn’t worth it and one needs to go for max power for min cost for the win, which isn’t going to surprise anyone.


#60

Shit, getting to the hillclimb is an achievement in of itself. I made the car purely because I could. Did zero beam testing or specific tuning aside from the usual under-hood wings.

And to be pretty close to Gridghost in timing on the climb is a pretty big shock to me.

Thanks Miros