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Congratulations, you unlocked the good end. (Alternative History Thread)


#1


"Congratulations, you unlocked the good end."

- "What is this thread about?"
- This thread is about an alternative history of our world, which drastically changes during the period of WWII. In short, Germany manages to overtake USSR for a short period of time. The WWII escalates much more quickly, causing USSR to fall apart almost 35 years early after the end, leaving US to execute Marshall Plan over the entirety of Europe, not just the Western part of it. This is just a summary, you must read all of the text documenting the events of the said alternative history under this spoiler.
Time Line Alterations

[OTL: Original timeline. ATL: Alternate timeline.]

On Sunday, June 22, 1941, the German High Command initiated the military plan Operation Barbarossa. The operation put into action Nazi Germany’s ideological goal of conquering the western Soviet Union so as to repopulate it with Germans. The German Generalplan Ost aimed to use some of the conquered as slave labor for the Axis war effort and to acquire the oil reserves of the Caucasus and the agricultural resources of Soviet territories for the war effort. This would initiate the most extreme front of WW2, and in our timeline, over 5 million military casualties and millions more civilian ones.

However, this time around, things go a bit differently…

By the start of the war, ATL Hitler has become convinced by previous German experiences in WW1 that Germany cannot hope to defeat Russia on a war of equal terms. The assault must be swift and leave no time for sieges or attempts to hurt the morale of the enemy troops. The goal must be to secure the oil fields in the Caucuses and cut off major population centers without eradicating them (as opposed to the OTL plan of burning Leningrad to the ground). To achieve this goal, the 4th Panzer group is not recalled for a futile push to Moscow and is used in conjunction with ATL Finnish military advances to completely cut off Leningrad. The Spanish and Finnish forces are then used together to hold off the attempts of the Red Army to take back Leningrad and the tanks used are destroyed. The Finnish army is also successful in advancing down the eastern side of Lake Ladoga and puts pressure on the Red Army to defend Arkhangelsk, crucial for receiving British supplies.

The scramble to the north to defend Arkhangelsk and protect a seemingly inevitable attack on Moscow by the Red Army is directly ordered by Stalin himself, costing the defense of the South. However, he still does commit forces to defend Stalingrad at all costs. In a stroke of sanity, Hitler does order the entrapped 6th Army to attempt a breakout attack to escape the encircling Russian forces, and this works. The 6th Army is replenished by Waffen-SS troops operating in Ukraine and continues to advance down the Volga river towards Astrakhan, commencing a race on either side of the river with the Red Army that ends in a stalemate at Astrakhan. However, this accomplishes the strategic goal of Hitler to seize the Caucuses oil fields, which comes just in the nick of time to maintain the push. The situation seems dire, but the British have a plan.

Secret talks conducted with Grecian paramilitary and King Michael of Romania have brought forward a new plan: a daring invasion of German-held Ukraine and Crimea as well as a coup in the Iron Guard fascist dictatorship in Romania. The plan to invade Italy in 1943 is scrapped and a new plan is drawn up. Forces from Alexandria, Cyprus, and French Syria will link up and cross the Bosporus strait and invade. This is to be the largest deployment of Free French forces since North Africa and the first time the US will directly help in Europe. On September 9th, 1943, as the battle in Kursk neared a critical point, French, American, and British forces suddenly attacked in Ukraine and the Romanian government was toppled by elements of the army loyal to King Michael. The Romanian section of the Axis advance into Russia totally collapses.

As soon as word reaches Finland of the invasion of Ukraine, they send a diplomatic envoy to the Soviet Union. In exchange for the return of pre-Winter War borders, Finland will completely abandon their military alliance with Germany and send food to Leningrad under siege. To the shock of his advisors, Stalin rejects the offer.

This triggers a series of political struggles in the Soviet Union in the middle of a freaking war and culminates in the exile and murder of Stalin after being ousted from the government of the Soviet Union. The Finnish peace offer is quickly accepted, and the German army, despite almost reaching Moscow and capturing the Caucuses, is now forced to rapidly retreat to protect their flanks from the Americans and Romanians as well as an advancing Red Army. As the Americans push through Ukraine, however… they are beseeched by the long-forgotten Ukrainian nationalists to stop the Soviet Union from retaking Ukraine. At the same time, the exiled governments of Belarus, Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia are clamoring to be allowed to return home as soon as the Germans are driven out of the Baltics. This presents a thorny situation to the allies. However, without the bargaining chip of winning the Eastern Front singlehandedly, the new Soviet government is unable to effectively retake control of Eastern Europe and a united front of American-Russian soldiers also eliminates the argument of needing buffer states between Russia and Germany.

D-Day still happens as planned, and in 1945 Allied forces reach Berlin from both sides, leaving a war-torn Europe in their wake. The Marshall Plan, constructed to give western European nations help recovering, is extended to all of Europe affected by the war in this timeline, including the former Soviet countries. This leads to further democratization and increasing adoption of capitalism in Russia. Notably, the retaliatory ethnic cleansing conducted by the Red Army against German civilians living in the East never happens (except for some cases) due to them being supported constantly by American soldiers who have strict orders not to retaliate as much as possible against civilians. This mostly-works, leading to a very different population make-up of Europe than what we have today. In addition, seeing first-hand the devastation of the Eastern Front convinces many American soldiers who fought there of the humanity present in all races.

Japan still gets nuked and still invents anime.

Now, the American economy is even more robust that previously thought possible thanks to them producing output for all of Europe instead of just half of it. In addition, the Korean War never happens and thus companies like General Motors and Lockheed Martin never have a reason to switch back to military production after WW2, curtailing much of the military industrial complex. Instead, the arms manufacturing companies switch to civilian goods, except for a few scandals involving fledgling independence movements in the colonies of former imperial powers.

These scandals create a diplomatic breakdown between the US-Russia-UK alliance and France, who under the leadership of Charles de Gaulle attempts to make his own way as he did historically. This backfires spectacularly when the US backs Vietnamese rebels fighting in French Indochina leading to France becoming bogged down in a guerrilla war that is quickly abandoned due to rising colonial independence movements. With the US refusing to back the UK and France in the Suez canal crisis, the empires of Europe begin to fray at the edges and then collapse.

However, not all is rosy in China. The incredible corruption and inefficiency of the nationalist government still allows the communists massive popular support and they sweep through most of the country. However, with American troops stationed in Vladivostok (originally to help protect a collapsed Red Army against Japanese invasion), the Nationalists flee to Manchuria instead of just Taiwan, leading to an even more intense stalemate between the two Chinas.

The Alternative World Map:

Notable changes:
1)Separate Manchuria controlled by the nationalist Republic of China and a UN-controlled Beijing
2)Bigger Germany and smaller Poland
3)Huge Romania due to Moldova never being created by the Soviet Union
4)Still messy colonial borders
5)Finland still has pre-Winter War territories

Disclaimer: The Eastern Front of WW2 is a lot more complicated than what I described, so there will inevitably be some complications. The decolonization process is also not complete.


- “What does all of this have to do with Automation?”

- You see, the economics, the world situation and the new type of people opens a lot of possibilities to use and create vehicles that wouldn’t make sense in our world (i.e. Eastern European supercars, actually original Chinese or North Korean cars, much more forgiving markets for 3rd world, winga dinga till the 80’s etc.)

- “Let’s assume I decided to make a car following this lore. Is this a challenge of sorts? Does it have any limitations?”

- No! Feel free to make any kinds the cars, trucks, motorcycles or something else that comes to your mind! Just make sure they can work and make sense in this beautiful alternative reality and, as usual, have fun!


I assume I'll be the first to follow this history. Say "Zdravstvuyte!" to SAC Horizon 1973!

I made this sedan a while ago. It's made mostly out of vanilla fixtures, since the OB didn't have anything from the Workshop at that moment. This particular car is a reimagination of Lada 2106, in American form, from a Russian plant. With help from US, SAC (also known as Nira) was born as a much more successful company.
Engine Horsepower 0-100 Top Speed Fuel Consumption Price
3.8L V8 180 9.78 227 km/h 15L/100 km -

Great thanks to my best friend Yakashama for making the lore actually make sense and to @CorsicaUnknown for help with CSS. Love ya, people. :heart:


#2

This thread is an interesting look into an alternate timeline that, for better or worse, never came to be - but until I saw the SAC Horizon I had no idea of what cars would have resulted from it. And when I did, I was pleasantly surprised - only now do I realize that, in the alternate timeline, Lada/Nira (or indeed any other Russian car manufacturers, for that matter) did not become the butt of various motoring jokes, and was able to flourish much earlier, thanks to timely American intervention.


#3

Sad Poland noises


#4

A new look on automation stuff with potential.


#5

Noooooo!!! This is a nightmare scenario for Bogliq Automotive!!! WE COME FROM MOLDOVA!!!


#6

There’s no reason to panic! There are no wars that happen in there, people just live in a single country instead of two ones, not hating eachother!


#7

I’ll take the first jab I guess :smile:

Manchuria Ling and Medium Leap Forward Honghu

It’s hard to summarize all the things that would go on since it’s just so damn complex, but the way me and a few other friends have thought of it is this:

With Chiang Kai Shek’s escape and assumed occupation of Manchuria, it is likely that the Chinese Nationalists now suddenly have the power to leverage the resource-rich region in their favour. In the scenario that the Nationalist government gain a slight bit more competency, the Manchurian region industrializes quickly. Even with distaste towards the American Capitalists, the Nationalists hold more distaste towards the communists just South of them. Co-operating with America brings an imported Innis, in which Mei Ling (who are, at least in this universe, based in North China as a State-owned enterprise) swiftly rebadges as a large government transport vehicle.

(P.S. Mei Ling in this universe no longer refers to spiritual influence, but now directly refers to Chiang Kai Shek’s wife Soong Mei-ling)

The Mei Ling CKS610, based off the Innis Remington is a large SUV imported from the United States and used in Manchuria as a government transport vehicle.

It was powered by the same 5.0L V8 and still remained on a 4x4 drivetrain. The Innis would be one of a few American vehicles imported at the time as means of establishing the Mei Ling brand as the state’s official government chariot in Manchuria. Being a state company, Mei Ling is now also involved in the defense sector, manufacturing a variety of military vehicles under the imminent threat of the communist south.

The vehicle was armoured and would serve as Chiang Kai-shek’s state car throughout the 70s. It would be the last American vehicle Kai-shek would use as state transport before his death. Mei Ling would stop basing their vehicles off American counterparts and manufacture original designs in the 80s. With the swearing-in of Yen Chia-kan, Mei Ling would export to foreign countries followed by various other plans deviced by Chiang Ching-kuo to allow Manchuria to become a model for other industrial regions - much like real life Taiwan.

The threat of communist takeover in Manchuria still loomed, and their nationalist government was well-aware. A large fraction of Mei Ling’s manufacturing still remains in the defense sector, and by the 80s, the company’s technology has improved to equate that of the real-life People’s Liberation Army.


Things in the communist South were not as intense as they were in our real world. The government still based their proposed growth on the 5-year plan of the now extinct Soviets, in which the first ended up not working as well as our actual history suggests. It still worked, just not as fascinatingly as reality. The Great Leap Forward was even less successful than reality as well. With scarcity in resources due to Manchuria’s occupation by the Nationalists, and inexperience in steel construction much like in real life, a high-quality Honghu did not exist. Even more died during the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution would still follow. Just with a worse state car and just as many atrocities committed.

We welcome the 1959 Honghu ZX70. The Honghu brand was established during the Great Leap Forward as means of further industrializing the country. It was based off American designs at the time, which had taken over most of Europe and even influenced neighbouring Manchuria. Like its current lore, the Honghu brand is still state-owned and was created for just about the same motives. However, these Honghus were built at a shockingly lower quality than what my current lore suggests.

Its steel body was constructed shabbily, with significant panel gaps and various imperfections spotted easily by the naked eye. Its “chrome” was faded and started to oxidize right off the factory floor. Shapes were primitive and tack-on. Hinges on each door were exposed and they would squeak loudly, to the point where the doors in which Chairman Mao would enter through were lubricated extensively as an end-of-pipe solution to the shrieking noise. It would be powered by an existing Renault 4.5L 4 cylinder engine found in civil war-era FT17 tanks making 39 horsepower. It was not armoured, unlike its Manchurian rival.

The differences were significant compared to their Northern Nationalist enemies. It was almost laughable. However, Honghu still chugged on to become the Southern nation’s state chaffeur.

Like the North, Honghu had diverted a significant portion of their manufacturing to defense and commercial use as well. They would make transport vehicles and eventually start pushing out original designs in the late-90s.

Quality issues persisted throughout all their models, including their military vehicles. Throughout the 50s up to the 70s, the vehicle’s engines would not get much better.

Long-story-short. It was not the Honghu we all know and love. The Manchurian Mei Ling was just so much better. To put it in other terms, it was more like current lore Mei Ling but serving for the government and trying to look cool.


To be honest, the above Honghu is inspired mostly by 50s Soviet designs, which probably would have never existed in Taff’s lore. So what if they were to employ a very old Soviet design before their fall and adapt it in the 60s?

This would probably end up being the result. It would potentially end up heavily based on the ZIS-110 and employ some very outdated tech. Albeit with some cheap modern technology stuck on to make it get with the times. This may include mirrors and turn signals.

I’d expect a lot more defects but I just wanted to paint it in gloss black.

Of course the same problems would follow, but said problems would just be shoehorned onto an older Soviet body.

The latter times would see an intense game of chicken between the North and South of China. The Communist side would eventually grow into a large power, despite just being behind Manchuria. Both countries end up as large powers on the world stage, and the looming conflict between them, as well as a growing Anti-American sentiment emerges. Such conflict sees the development of some bizarre war machines, transport personnel and people’s cars. I hope I am able to talk about them later in this thread, nonetheless make them, because man this is fun


#8

That’s some very impressive work you’ve done here, Yang! Very well done, I love the designs and the lore behind the first entrance in the thread! I’m interested to see what more or less modern cars of Mei Ling and Honghu would be like! Knowing that the economy and overall history of this alternative history is supposed to be a better version of our own universe, I’m expecting some even more interesting stuff to happen.


#9

Meanwhile in France…

OOC
So one thing that I think is somewhat unrealistic in Europe (apart from the USSR somehow collapsing) is the US Marshall Plan. That was only really done to make Europe not shit because of the looming communist threat. Now thats gone, there really is no reason to fund Europe. Also the Marshall Plan wasn’t for free, it was in exchange for US military bases in said countries. That being said, we go to France…

With the threat of Nazi Germany and the USSR gone, the only threat that France faced in the aftermath of WW2 was the US. While grateful for the US help in defeating the Germans, America’s anti imperialist (somewhat ironic) stance soon puts the two countries in an uneasy alliance, added to this, the Suez Crisis and the First Indochina War.

Where in RL, the US would (eventually) provide military support to the French, in this alternate timeline, there is no US support, with the US fully supporting the Vietnamese rebels. Thus, it would be down to France and one of her only imperialist ally (the UK) to provide arms for the French Indochina troops.

In this timeline, Merciel, which had been put in government control during WW2 would remain in government control, and would focus more on manufacturing military equipment. With all that important stuff out of the way, have some Indochina Merciels.


Merciel 37/46 Staff Car


I’ll eventually get round to making a proper lore post on this

With the French Indochina war kicking off right after WW2 in 1946, the French didn’t exactly have much military equipment lying around, and with the US supporting the Viet Minh, the French military had to dig deep into the old list of pre war military equipment and try to make it useable. One such vehicle was the Merciel Modèle 37 staff car.

Built and designed before the war, the Modèle 37 was a typical pre war European design. They would later be updated and improved in 1946 leading to the designation Modèle 37/46. Powered by a 2L i4, the Modèle 37/46 would be a pretty popular car with officers stationed in Indochina. While pretty reliable, the Modèle 37/46 wasn’t good off road and would often get bogged down in mud, making it unsuitable as a scout car.


Merciel Modèle 52 Troop Carrier


Oh look, yet another car that I need to make a lore post on

By 1953, the French were struggling to keep hold onto their territory in Indochina.
(considering that IRL they were struggling with US support, god knows what it would have been like when the US starts funding the Viet Minh)

With the Viet Minh attacking supply lines, it was imperative to move more supplies to the front than could be destroyed. As such vehicles like the Modèle 52 would be modified and placed into military service.

Moving troops and supplies behind the front lines, would seem pretty uneventful, but with the Viet Minh sprawling through the jungle, supply trucks would be in constant danger from a hit and run attack. And much like any other military transport at the time, the Modèle 52 had no way of protecting itself or the cargo.


Merciel Modèle 49Bis Scout Car

Taking a page out of the German’s book, the French car for the people, the Modèle 49 was converted into
a military scout car. Keeping the 760cc i4, the Modèle 49 Scout car would be modified with 4x4 to improve its off road capabilities. The later revision to the design, the Modèle 49Bis would receive the same treatment in 1951.

Modèle 49 scout cars sent to Indochina would all be convertible models with improved cooling and dust covers to keep it running in the intense heat. Due to the short wheelbase, low weight and 4x4, the Modèle 49 scout cars were pretty nimble and could somewhat navigate the dense jungles without much difficulty.


And now for something more stupid…

Merciel Modèle 49Bis Scout Car w/ M20 recoilless rifle

Now, yall might be thinking that this was a dumb French plan to make the Modèle 49Bis into a tank fighting weapon…technically yes, but the real reason why a 75mm recoilless rifle was jerry rigged onto a Modèle 49Bis, was so it would be more manoeuvrable. Moving around the M20 recoilless rifle was not a simple job, and with the guerrilla fighting in Indochina, it was common for artillery pieces to not be mobile enough to keep up with the pace of combat.

As such, it was decided that the mobile Modèle 49Bis scout car would be modified to move around such weapons. While it was more common to find a 49Bis with a mortar or a mounted machinegun, an M20 recoilless rifle would also be modified to fit onto the car.

Unlike what the name suggests, firing the M20 was not without recoil. When fired, it was noted that the front wheels would lift of the ground which would later be fixed by chaining the wheels to the ground. The M20 would also mostly take up the rear seats, though if you were small enough, you could “fit” 4 people in the car. Ammunition for the gun would be stored in the front trunk. Due to the way the M20 was mounted onto the car, horizontal traverse was nonexistant, though there was some vertical traverse. The M20 could also be removed from the mount on the car and placed on it’s own mount.



#10

Who gave you permission to turn the mortar Vespa into a car? Oh wait, it’s the french, nevermind.
Also, any chance the GAZ/VAZ/UAZ company still exists in this timeline? I think if they survived the war times, their 70’s/80’s cars would be pretty sick!


#11

Judging by the fact that my companies of SAC/Nira, Lenmash/Emphro and AZSS/Tagma exist and flourish on my side of the lore, I’d say it’s pretty much possible to have such companies in there!