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CSR84 - Years of Youth [FINALS, RESULTS UP]


#206

Was unaware of that. Now that I’ve read it…

I’m actually MORE upset about it now.

Wipers are a brand new fixture in the game and don’t work well at all with positioning and lengths. Makes me wonder if I would have done better without even attempting to put them on.

I see no misalignment in the tailights. So while that’s a legitimate gripe, it’s not helpful with as short of an explanation as it is because it doesn’t help me correct it. Perhaps if the critic would mind taking a closeup picture and PMing me to see what they’re seeing, so I can correct it in the future.

“Prevalent indicators”… what country is yangx2 from? May be mistaking “indicators” for reflectors, which have very specific number, type, and placement requirements in the US. This round is set in Canada, which follows US regulations almost to a tee. So here I’m getting dinged for following the LAW. Now, some of you may say something about “integrated reflectors”, but almost none of the fixtures in Automation have a reflector portion that is separate from the signal, which DOES NOT satisfy DOT regulations. Hence why I use separate reflectors in ALL cases.

Then there’s this little gem of supposition… it doesn’t really pertain to the story, but shows that someone is making some (incorrect) assumptions. "Despite reaching out to female siblings for design help, keep in mind that Sarah likes to stand out, making the black colour a rather unsuitable choice. "

  1. Not a sibling. Child. I’m old AF.
  2. Black can stand out. Perhaps it doesn’t in this case, but unilaterally saying “no” to black is silly. One of my female friends back in HS went car shopping with her dad, and she ended up picking out a black-on-black Firebird. It sure as hell stood out.
  3. I worked in car sales for a while. Guess how many female teenage customers actually cared about what color their car was? One. Out of dozens. I also can recall one girl I was selling a Focus to who “liked to stand out”, and she couldn’t decide between our silver, blue, or dinner-mint green ones. Think about that. A bubbly teenage girl who wants to stand out had SILVER on her list. The most blah, blend in color in the world. It was always the MEN who were picky about color.
  4. I will argue color till I die because a 2015 trim was required, and this is set in 2015. Expecting a manufacturer to only make one color is unrealistic. I have LOTS of “stand out” colors if black is "unsuitable’. The car would be available in these as well. And as this is written up with her pulling up websites and (presumably) seeing what color(s) this NEW car could be configured in, I find that ANY point deduction based on color to be ridiculous… even for the car that was super purple. It would be a different story if it was a USED car. This is why, last time I ran a CSR round with a new car, I asked the finalists for color samples of ALL available colors for the model. The winning car was actually purchased in a color different than the submitted/advertised color.

With a 2.5 point difference between making and not making the cut, can you possibly see the frustration here?


#207

Its literally a for fun opinionated review thread. Not a real life review that could make a financial impact on your car company.

You make a car for the CSR host, if the CSR host does not like it for any reason, tough luck, make a better car next time. Whether the CSR host is up to your standards or not is 100% irrelevant.

This isnt reality people, this is something for fun about automation cars. There are no DOT regulations, no money to be lost and its not a representation of a real car buyer.

I dont see how any of this is hard to understand.


#208

At first I didn’t care until I started really reading what the reasoning was. This feels like a case where the goalpost was moved after the ball was kicked.

I’m now wishing that the host HADN’T posted his sheet, because that would have been less bothersome (to more than one person).

I don’t see how that’s so hard for YOU to understand.


#209

The issue here is you expect others to know these regulations off by heart. Don’t be surprised when some people dont. Im pretty sure there are some people based in the US who dont even know or care about these regulations.


#210

image


#211

This here is a really important point and a valid concern. Too many times I’ve seen a decent contender binned in a New Car Buyer themed round for being an ugly colour yet all manufacturers provide a colour palette choice. Some are only small and others have lots of hues but it’s an inauthentic reason to bin a car solely on the provided colour. Binning cars isn’t always easy but make sure your reasons make sense within the story you’re telling!


#212

There’s a real simple solution to this problem. Don’t enter your cars with ugly colours


#213

No one wants to scroll through a few hundred images just to decide on a color of a car for a csr round. Pick the best color you think that fits the CSR round and go along with your day. Literally no one will want to scroll for 20 mins just to see all of the cars.


#214

What in the actual fuck is going on guys :joy:


#215

I’m sorry, are you saying you think it’s OK to demand “period correct” styling but to ding people for being period correct in ALL aspects of styling?

Because I don’t.

And it took less than 2 minutes to find those regs on Google. It would NOT have taken a considerable outlay of time to gain an understanding of them if you DID want to demand full period correctness.

There was NO caveat or qualifier in the OP that said “I want you to be period correct… to an extent.”

Black is not an ugly color. If you think it is, GTFO of an automotive forum.

This is also a completely retarded statement because you can have a scenario where 90%+ or more people like a car in a given color combo, and that ONE person disagrees and screws it all up. Maybe that person is color blind, or has no taste whatsoever. Nicking_HC’s color is borderline controversial. He moved on. Mr.Computah’s looks like a shimmer coat, which manufacturers avoid like the plague because they’re highly niche. He moved on. Chickenbiscuit’s color is not period correct, that’s the blue you find on a 1992 GM. He moved on. And goblin95, because he has halfway decent photoshopping skills, got to put in an ad with two colors. And moved on. Knugcab’s styling is flat out shocking from what I can see. He moved on.

Yes, this is a CSR where the buyer has their tastes, but this buyer seems to have some VERY INCONSISTENT tastes.

You don’t have to. You can do this amazing thing of gasp asking the finalists who make the cut. Just don’t make it a round 1 consideration on a NEW car round.

I’m done arguing on this. Congrats to whoever the winner ends up being. To the apologists in this thread: Instead of digging in, why don’t you actually take a deep look at the issues here and the inconsistencies pointed out?


#216

Have you met a teenager before? Inconsistent tastes doesn’t even begin to cover it.


#217

I was quoting HOL, and not referring to your entry. I think black is perfectly good colour, but my point still stands. If you enter a car in a colour thats is deemed ugly, like puke green, then if it gets binned then you really shouldn’t complain because you’re the one who chose that colour.

You think my statement is stupid? Have you read yours? Your entire argument hinges on a few people disagreeing in colour choice. You even say it yourself, it takes “one person to disagree” what exactly are the chances that that person is the host. I think all the people here have similar tastes in cars and what colours they look good in so the chances of that happening are pretty slim.

Now you’re just being a dick. I’ll admit, Knugcabs entry isnt the best looking thing in the world, buts its leaps ahead of your design. Talking about that…

What about your entry’s styling is period correct? Did you actually look at a 2015 car or just read through the stringent lighting regulations and make it fit them without caring for the cars design? Because I can tell you know, it looks nothing like a 2015 car.

Also reminder that not everyone wants to read through the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard and nowhere on here does it say it you have to follow them.

Also theres more to period accuracy than how the lights are laid out


#218

Technical Round

With her top 10 picked out, Sarah then went to the website of a local automotive magazine by the name “DriveYYC”, directing her attention to a new budget car shootout article. She searched up her 10 vehicles, took a lot at them herself, and forwarded each review to her parents. Each vehicle in the article was compared to one another.

The first tab opened was the 2ND…
@goblin95

“The Kasai 2ND is an attractive spin on the Japanese kei car, accommodating such design language for the Canadian market. The safety features delivered by the All-Sense system makes the 2ND a rather easy-to-drive vehicle. The car is fitted with a premium sound system equipped with navigation, making it significantly more comfortable than its competition. Its power leather seats are a nice addition for its price. Gas mileage is very good, with a combined 52.6 miles to the gallon. Price is in the higher numbers, coming in at around $15 496, and rumour has it that its service costs are a bit high compared to its rivals. Consumer reliability scores are lower than average with complaints about the All-sense system throwing occasional errors on the dashboard, while safety scores find themselves right in the average as well. Acceleration is a bit sluggish but still reasonable, clocking in at around a tested 9.1 seconds, root of cause potentially being its outdated 5 speed automatic transmission.”

Given its lower-than average reliability and higher service costs, Sarah’s parents weren’t too fond of it.

“It’s cute, those costs aren’t cute at all.” - Mother

The Valkyrie was next to read about.
@Cheeseman

“Evgenis’ Valkyrie is a strong contender in its segment, consisting of a spacious interior and certain amenities which make it more practical than most of its rivals. Its fuel economy is class-competitive, clocking in at a combined 41.2 mpg. Acceleration off the line is peppy, its 7.4 second 0-60 time makes it significantly faster off the line compared to its competition. Although not the most comfortable vehicle, the Valkyrie still comes in as a solid contender with a price of $15 128; lower than its Japanese rival. Reliability is reported to be better than the 2ND as well, yet comes off average compared to the rest of the vehicles in its class. Despite its flaws in some sectors, the Valkyrie manages to pull strong.”

“It’s a cheaper one for sure, but it stands out well. And wow, this thing is practical! Sarah can haul a lot of club supplies with this one.” - Father

Sarah opened the tab to the Vireo.
@Chickenbiscuit

“The Vireo is unique in its internals, powered by a bizarre inline-6 plant producing 138 hp in the higher range. Although not being the most practical being a 3-door hatchback, it maintains some form of practicality despite having only 4 seats as well. Fuel economy is lower than the Valkyrie, yet still competitive among its counterparts at a combined 40.1 mpg. The Vireo costs more than the Valkyrie, yet comes in at $15 479, making it barely cheaper than the 2ND. Running costs are rumoured to be significantly lower than most of its competitors, and consumer reliability tests place the Vireo in the higher percentile. Crash test scores are best-in-class, earning various distinctions within the institutes it was tested in. 0-60 time is a bit slower than average, clocking in at around 8.8 seconds, yet the rest of the Vireo holds up well against its fierce competition.

“2 doors, but it’s very safe apparently. I’ve heard things about it being cheap to run, our wallets just might be safe. It’s also apparently very reliable too! Interesting.” - Mother and Father

The Halfaxa was the next entry in the list.
@saddiseased

“The Levenbrech Halfaxa is a rather stunning sports coupe. Its fuel economy is surprising for its looks, clocking in at a competitive 40.6 miles to the gallon. Interior is well-equipped and comfortable, with leather seats and a navigation system. The inline-5 makes 200 horsepower, propelling the Halfaxa forward to 60 in a solid 7 seconds. It is however, not as practical as the other competitors as expected. Cargo volume was significantly lower. The Halfaxa is in the higher percentile in terms of price, clocking in at $15 499, just shy of our $15 500 budget. Service costs are also rumoured to be quite high and reliability, below average. Its rear wheel drive platform and oversteer-tuned handling makes it unsuitable for Calgary winters, leaving it out of the equation for rookie drivers wishing to obtain a sportier car.”

“Rear wheel drive? Perhaps not the safest choice for our daughter the winter season.” - Mother and Father

The Sancho would be next…
@MasterDoggo

“Daito’s Sancho is the Japanese manufacturer’s iteration of the kei car to fit the Canadian market, just in line with the 2ND’s intentions. The Daito proves easy to handle compared to its competition due to its small form factor and great visibility. The tall greenhouse and premium interior options keep the Daito as subjectively, the most comfortable in its class, despite its rather harsh ride. Its 143 hp figues from a 1.6 litre inline-4 are promising, however 0-60 time is rather slow, inching just a couple decimals below the 10-second mark. Due to this, merging onto Glenmore was a worrying experience, foot 60% on the throttle to get it moving as quickly as the cars in front of it. Ignoring its drawbacks in acceleration, the Sancho is a solid contender, with great safety scores, wonderful fuel economy, and a size small enough to allow it to park anywhere on 17th avenue with little to no hassle. Hydraulic power steering is a rather questionable choice in 2015, but such surprisingly does not dilute its driving feel too much. Consumer reliability scores put it lower than average, however, running costs are tested to be adequate but less than the 2ND and some other competitors. Price is on the higher side, at $15 356.”

“It’s kind of slow, but it’s apparently comfortable. That’s a plus for me.”

The Conte Teide Pasion was the next tab among the list of 10.
@Mr.Computah

“The Pasion is a rather cute crossover, radicalizing the already-popular blob shape. It is cheaper than its Japanese counterparts, coming in at around $14 973 with rather low tested running costs. The 7-speed dual-clutch helps it maintain an exceptional 49.7 miles to the gallon, further assisted by its turbocharged 4 cylinder powerplant making 127 horses. Safety scores are lower than its competitors while its tested reliability is at most, average. The smaller form factor allows the Pasion to maneuver well within traffic, driving well through downtown Calgary. 0-60 time is reasonable for its horsepower, coming in at around 8.6 seconds, such is not too cumbersome to work with. It is perhaps not as comfortable as some of its competitors, due to material choices within its interior. The Pasion is a great car, but just barely and very very slightly, lacks that competitive edge.”

“Agh, the interior’s not that good compared to the rest? That wouldn’t work well on a cold winter day.” - Mother

Next was the BAM Enios.
@Der_Bayer

“The Enios’ fuel economy is class-leading coming in at around 54 miles to the gallon, but its power is definitely not. Its engine is gutless, making 94 horses compared to the typical 150 in the North American market. A 0-60 time of 11.6 seconds makes it a struggle to get to highway speeds. Material choices in the interior make the vehicle quite comfortable, it scores rather typical in safety, while its reliability is decent at the best. Coming in at $14 900, the Enios is less expensive than some of its competitors, yet all in all, is not worth it due to its severe lack in power, making it quite a frustration to drive on the highway.”

“11.6 seconds? I’m pretty sure my mother’s Grand Marquis accelerates faster than that.” - Father

Sarah opened the Solo Skipper tab.
@thecarlover

“If the Enios was considered slow, the Skipper is even slower. A 12.1 second 0-60 time makes it even more frustrating to get up to speed on the highways, and even pulling out of yield lanes onto hills in suburbs. All the rest of the vehicle’s facets are rather average compared to its competition, except for its exceptional practicality. The Skipper is inexpensive compared to the rest of the competition, running costs as well. The Skipper, despite pulling decent economical numbers for a sedan, finds its fuel economy lacking compared to its competition, coming in at around 33.8 miles to the gallon. All aside, being as slow as it is, such car is a hassle to get going, and is therefore, not suited too well.”

“12.1 seconds? I’m more than sure my mother’s Grand Marquis accelerates faster than that.” - Father

The Gemny LT was brought up next. The review was rather concise.
@Nicking_HC

“A smaller 4-cylinder engine making 93 horses is just not enough for the Canadian market. Its 14.6 s 0-60 time is not only absurdly slow, but almost dangerous for Canadian roads, especially when merging into traffic, barely chugging through the uphill sections on Macleod, and dealing with weave zones on the Trans-Canada’s smaller cloverleaf interchanges. Its gas mileage is way below its competition, coming in at a mere 29.3 miles to the gallon. Everything else about it was pretty average, scoring typical in user reliability, and lower in safety. The limited-slip differential shoots costs up in not only its listed price of $15 308, but its service costs as well. The Gemny’s power plant is gutless, making it pretty dangerous to drive. We would give this one a swift pass”

“14.6 seconds? I’m DEFINITELY sure my mother’s Grand Marquis accelerates faster than that. How the hell are you supposed to climb up that big hill on Macleod?” - Father

The dm3 1300LX was next in the lineup.
@Knugcab

“Like the Enios and Skipper, the 1300LX is slow, clocking in with a 0-60 time of 11 seconds. It’s cheaper than most, coming in at $14 742 whilst its service costs are rather low. User reliability tests have placed it slightly below average. Infotainment options are well-thought out, however, the 1300LX underperforms in various other aspects. Body roll is higher than its competition, making it slightly less comfortable, while fuel economy is down compared to its competition. Being a 3-door, the 1300LX was not the most practical either, with rear passengers feeling a bit cramped.”

“It’s slow, and underperforms. Hmm. I’ll pass.” - Mother
.
.
.

With her choices concrete, Sarah and her parents picked 3 vehicles to test drive.

The sheet of paper read “Valkyrie, Vireo, Sancho”.

@Cheeseman, @Chickenbiscuit and @MasterDoggo move on into the finals woohoo.


#219

I’ll take that feedback on board. Lynx definitely is a tad disjointed front to back. With the flat rear windscreen I tried to go for a more modern, quirky look. Something like Megane or various small hatchbacks but with a hint of off-roader to it. Problem with this body was that it’s disjointed in nature anyway - that angle is hard to smooth out unless you angle it like a regular hatch while the front is round as heck. I’ve still got quite a way to go in design. I could have clawed some points back in tech-specs :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s good to know that proportions are at least in check and I’m good on the detail front - I really need to work on consistency now. Even a car I’m working on now for myself looks like 2 different cars mashed together… Missed out on top 10 by like 5 points so not too bad, I’ll take that!

Side note:
For anyone complaining that there wasn’t enough feedback given, if you hover over the numbers you will get detailed hints based on your score.

EDIT: In case anyone misunderstood me, I was agreeing with feedback and think @yangx2 is doing CSR well.


#220

And here we go again…

Once more, can we actually thank the host for putting the effort in and doing a good job overall. Hey, some people aren’t 100% happy, and it’s almost impossible to always please everyone.

So to the host, I will continue to thank you again. I’m very surprised how well the Valkyrie is doing so I will keep everything crossed and hope to see a sale!

Now onto the continuous derailing of the thread

This is a game, first off. There is no reason at any point to get this worked up over petty little things like this. Everything is going to be subjective about this and it has been explained why. It was clear from the start that looks were a big factor. If you don’t like it knowing you can’t do a good design, why did you bother submitting an entry? Especially considering how worked up you’ve got over it.

In all honestly it is disgraceful and has not been contributing to the thread whatsoever. If you have that much of a problem, PM the host instead.


#221

TBH, i think @yangx2 is doing a stellar job at hosting. the critiques have been more than valid, from what i’ve seen, and there is good level of description of said critiques, so people know where they’ve missed the mark.

as for those getting all mad as to why there car lost on looks? IT’S SUBJECTIVE TASTE!!!

not everyone is gonna want a run-of-the-mill hatchback, no matter how good you think it is, and the customer’s want’s mean that a good looker is gonna beat a car that is marginally better stats-wise in the prelims. looks are always important in CSR.

use it as a learning experience with design. think about the year you are styling for, and think how your car would look amongst IRL rivals. would it stand out well? would it just be another anonymous background player? or would it be off putting? also, think about your body morphs, because that can really change a car from cute to janky very fast. also, a lot of binned cars suffered from “squashed fixture syndrome”, where the proportionality if fixtures, especially the lights, have been over exaggerated on either the X or Y axis. that can also quickly ruin the design of an otherwise promising car.

just a bit of advice for future reference.


#222

Shout-out to the host for an amazing work!

I’ve picked a premium coupe with hope to fulfill the need to throw some dust in other highschoolers’ eyes. But yeah, it was quite realistic that my car didn’t pass mom&dad inspection.


#223

Oh… what a familiar references… lol
BTW, nice writing and very cool picture post and composition.


#224

I just realised that Evgenis has almost exactly the same headlight style as my Vanguard. Without the DRLs though.


#225

You’re missing the vent fixtures on my car :o