First car for my son

Community Challenges & Competitions
182

Wait, isn’t this Italy? Don’t you guys squeeze into tiny cars all the time, and have that weird driving position where your knees are basically touching the dashboard? :laughing: (Or that is an outdated stereotype?)

Anyway, glad the son didn’t savage the car, I’m trading on dad points primarily. I’m not surprised having a significant hidden factor would piss people off, perhaps you could have hinted it in the rules (e.g. ‘don’t forget people come in all shapes and sizes’), especially when you prodded people to make smaller cars with that line about parking. You claim this is a ‘small’ part of evaluation, so I’ll reserve final judgement. :innocent:

(On the other hand, this drama is hopefully motivating @F17Francesco to expedite the next scoring. :smiling_imp: Don’t cut corners, though!)

Perhaps a better way to estimate front seat space is to consider how many seating rows there are in proportion to the total passenger volume and the wheelbase (since longer wheelbase cars generally get increasingly more legroom in the rear in proportion to the front, at some point crossing over to more space in the rear than front).

1 Like
183

As a car manufacturer you can not know every buyer, so, as you guys pointed out most Italians would be just fine with a small car. This Italian child is, however, seemingly, a bit spoiled and thinks that a small car is just not going to suit him. That is what you just have to deal with as a manufacturer. This buyer is not liking your car’s passenger space, but the next one may love it. Seems to me that people are making a bigger deal out of this than they should.

I built a car that I would have chosen as a first car but my tastes are different than that of other peoples tastes and it shows. I liked having only two seats, I had a better reason to be alone with my girl… No “third wheels” as they say. Maybe this kid is really popular and wants to carry his less fortunate friends around with him; I’m not going to complain because I built this on my tastes and I cannot know who may be buying it.

3 Likes
184

Some quick italian common habits.

-At age 14 many guys buy a 50cc microcar (expecially in the cities) than at 18 they want something bigger, something more “adult”.
-Not everyone have a car at 18yo, so, in the first years, car pooling is a frequent thing to do. It’s more frequent than it should to see cars with 6 or 7 people inside (like Opel Corsa, Fiat Panda or similar). This is why he was serching for 5 seats.

Another thing on the evaluation process: Every car will be “test drived” to evaluate comfort, drivability and external dimensions (this time less is better for parking).

Last thing I need to quote [quote=“one85db, post:183, topic:20246”]
As a car manufacturer you can not know every buyer, so, as you guys pointed out most Italians would be just fine with a small car. This Italian child is, however, seemingly, a bit spoiled and thinks that a small car is just not going to suit him. That is what you just have to deal with as a manufacturer. This buyer is not liking your car’s passenger space, but the next one may love it. Seems to me that people as making a bigger deal out of this than they should.
[/quote]

The purpose of this challenge is exactly that, i could not explain it better. As a manifaturer you can’t know your buyer, you need to immagine what is better for him.

EDIT…If i know what that post (and this thread) unlashed, i was worried for the joke about Alex Zanardi. what a fool I am.

5 Likes
185

My car was too tiny… well I built for “small Italian city car” so w/e. I do think knowing your son was a relative giant would have been useful in this case since you wanted a small car… but also not a small car. Just my opinion.

5 Likes
186

Well I’m screwed
I made another car to make me feel better

3 Likes
187

10 Likes
188

6’4" here, tried to put on an S2000 unsuccessfully, seen a few mid sized cars I couldn’t fit in either, as well as a few compacts I had no problem with.

189

Are you aware that the car I sent had a different front end compared to the photo you put here, right?

Anyway no problem with the judgment. The car is the one I’ve shown in the Geneva thread.

190

Now it’s time for the dad evaluation, He is a fan of Excel and this are the results of his calculations for prices, and a little comment about it (and the safety).

How it’s calculated:

Safety rating: I took the safety value from automation, added 2 if there is TC and 5 for ESP than divided all cars in 5 class (like EuroNCAP):

  • 1 star: less than 45.6
  • 2 star: from 45.6 to 50.6
  • 3 star: from 50.6 to 55.6
  • 4 star: from 55.6 to 60.5
  • 5 star: over 65.5

Enviromental Resistence Taken directly from Automation

6 Years Cost is the sum of price, service and fuel; i haven’t included taxes and insurances because is the same for everyone (almost)
The exact formula is:
Price + ( Economy * 100 * 1.5 * 6 ) + ( EngineServCost / Rel * 0.22 * 6 )
Fuel expenses is calculated for 10.000 km per year for 6 years at 1.5€/l
Service costs factor (0.22) is calculated to make the average cost 250 €/year for 6 years

I know it’s not perfect, but i think is a good aproximation of real costs.
I haven’t used the running costs provided by the game because puel cost, aviability and taxes are not quite right, but service costs have an high correlation with the one calculated by me.
At the end of the post the average value of the cars.

@doncornaldie Cornaldie Zip RS 17940 €
Economy= 6,78 l/100km; Reliabilty= 79,1; Env Res= 97
EuroNCAP rating = 2 stars; 6 Years Costs = 25,6 k€

Too much fuel consuption, some say the airbags are defective in some cars

@vicVictory Ardent Motors Viczaya CSE 17161 €
Economy= 5,84 l/100km; Reliabilty= 77,7; Env Res= 90
EuroNCAP rating = 5 stars; 6 Years Costs = 23,9 k€

The fuel consumption is still too high but this car is one of the safest (according to EuroNCAP)

@8bs Fuentes S-Sx coupè sport 17420 €
Economy= 4,74 l/100km; Reliabilty= 77,1; Env Res= 96
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 23,4 k€

Quattroruote (italian car magazine) report services cost over 280€ per year, a bit too high

@NormanVauxhall Znopresk Zap 1.1 Urbana 13390 €
Economy= 4,95 l/100km; Reliabilty= 78,4; Env Res= 88
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 19 k€

This one is very cheap, maybe prone to rust early

@HighOctaneLove Bogliq Kitten Brio 13520 €
Economy= 5,4 l/100km; Reliabilty= 73,5; Env Res= 91
EuroNCAP rating = 2 stars; 6 Years Costs = 19,7 k€

Only 2 EuroNCAP stars, not the best, but this is pretty cheap

@Zabhawkin **Zab C117 ** 17680 €
Economy= 6,83 l/100km; Reliabilty= 75,8; Env Res= 95
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 25,3k€

Fuel consuption is too high, i can’t afford it

@conan Mitsushita Sebi 900 13910 €
Economy= 3,66 l/100km; Reliabilty= 78,9; Env Res= 95
EuroNCAP rating = 1 stars; 6 Years Costs = 18,5 k€

Only one star in the crash test, i don’t want my son drive this, but is very cheap to buy and run

@Mikonp7 EcaMobile Hammer Spur 13390 €
Economy= 6,58 l/100km; Reliabilty= 76,6; Env Res= 94
EuroNCAP rating = 2 stars; 6 Years Costs = 20,5 k€

The economy is low like the the buyng cost, not so safe

@DeusExMackia Erin Visto Lex Coupe 1.2 22310 €
Economy= 5,11 l/100km; Reliabilty= 79,5; Env Res= 101
EuroNCAP rating = 4 stars; 6 Years Costs = 28,69k€

This one is too expensive, even if it’s safe, durable and reliable

@one85db OMG Lfi17160 €
Economy= 4,95 l/100km; Reliabilty= 77,8; Env Res= 103
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 23,1k€

The materials are very good but it’s not so cheap

@Dorifto_Dorito EDAC Weasel 15470 €
Economy= 5,04 l/100km; Reliabilty= 77,2; Env Res= 103
EuroNCAP rating = 4 stars; 6 Years Costs = 21,4k€

Another sturdy car, 4 stars is good and not that expensive, i like it

@Awildgermanappears Doberman Duet Marathon 16510 €
Economy= 5,14 l/100km; Reliabilty= 76,5; Env Res= 91
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 22,9k€

A medium car, not bad, service costs are a bit high

@TheMiltos21 Betta Nicola 15860 €
Economy= 5,28 l/100km; Reliabilty= 76,8; Env Res= 97
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 21,9k€

It’s ok, decently cheap to buy and to mantain

@oppositelock GSI Figurati 13910 €
Economy= 4,27 l/100km; Reliabilty= 76,5; Env Res= 92
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 19,4k€

This one is cheap to buy, it can be

@HowlerAutomotive Howler Scamp A6 15860 €
Economy= 5,12 l/100km; Reliabilty= 74,9; Env Res= 94
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 21,6k€

Everything average

@Rk38 Maesima Devina 17160 €
Economy= 4,34 l/100km; Reliabilty= 74,4; Env Res= 94
EuroNCAP rating = 4 stars; 6 Years Costs = 22,8k€

Safe, but the service cost are over 290€ per year

@tr8r FOA City Junior15990 €
Economy= 4,98 l/100km; Reliabilty= 77,1; Env Res= 95
EuroNCAP rating = 4 stars; 6 Years Costs = 21,9k€

Safe and reasonably cheap

@TheBobWiley Memento City Sport 17550 €
Economy= 4,53 l/100km; Reliabilty= 69,5; Env Res= 83
EuroNCAP rating = 2 stars; 6 Years Costs = 23,2k€

I see more rusted or broken Memento than healty one

@RED_E Wilson Pulse LX 15730 €
Economy= 5,92 l/100km; Reliabilty= 70,6; Env Res= 90
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 22,1k€

This one is ok

@gridghost Scarab Flare 14040 €
Economy= 5,61 l/100km; Reliabilty= 73,4; Env Res= 99
EuroNCAP rating = 2 stars; 6 Years Costs = 20,8k€

Cheap to buy, services cost iis the biggest expense, but the economy is great

@MitsubishiFan Vpower Hype 17940 €
Economy= 3,5 l/100km; Reliabilty= 72,9; Env Res= 88
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 22,6k€

Rust and engine faliures are a big problem in this one

@Dragawn ** Lucipur** 17940 €
Economy= 4,17 l/100km; Reliabilty= 73,8; Env Res= 93
EuroNCAP rating = 2 stars; 6 Years Costs = 23,4k€

A bit too expensive, and not so safe

@Leonardo9613 Ikkonagashi 1090 L 16510 €
Economy= 3,99 l/100km; Reliabilty= 76,8; Env Res= 92
EuroNCAP rating = 2 stars; 6 Years Costs = 21,4k€

Only 2 stars, but the price is good

@AirJordan Smooth Lynx 1,1 15340 €
Economy= 4,53 l/100km; Reliabilty= 78; Env Res= 90
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 20,7k€

This one is economical friendly, i may like it

@koolkei Cuno 17180 €
Economy= 5,93 l/100km; Reliabilty= 77,5; Env Res= 104
EuroNCAP rating = 5 stars; 6 Years Costs = 25 k€

This one is big, safe and sturdy but maybe too expensive, Quattroruote (italian car magazine) report over 310€ per year of service

@JohnWaldock JHW Retroniq 14170 €
Economy= 5,12 l/100km; Reliabilty= 73,3; Env Res= 92
EuroNCAP rating = 1 stars; 6 Years Costs = 20 k€

It can be the most economical death machine ever

@Leedar Boiyd Sprite Sport 16510 €
Economy= 4,69 l/100km; Reliabilty= 76,9; Env Res= 93
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 22,6k€

Average car, it’s not that expensive (exept for yearly service)

@MarcoAlla FIART Toro 90S 1740 €
Economy= 5,04 l/100km; Reliabilty= 79,6; Env Res= 101
EuroNCAP rating = 3 stars; 6 Years Costs = 23,4k€

Panels are fantastic but the quality must be payed

@Xoury Sparrowq MVR mk7 17590 €
Economy= 3,29 l/100km; Reliabilty= 72,9; Env Res= 92
EuroNCAP rating = 2 stars; 6 Years Costs = 21,8k€

Not that good, running costs are very low

To better compare your car this is the averages of the lot
Economy= 5 l/100km; Reliabilty= 76; Env Res= 94
EuroNCAP rating = 2.86 stars; 6 Years Costs = 22 k€

All this values, will be conbined with the results of the next test (drivability, sportiness etc) and with the yesterday votes to make the final results.
Expect the next part tomorrow or late this day

10 Likes
191

Next test is most interesting for me. :slight_smile: I hope to make gains there.

192

Wait, I see the formula “EngineServCost * Rel * 0.1761”, am I seeing right that you multiplied the relative cost with the reliability to get the total cost? Shouldn’t it be “EngineServCost * 1/Rel * BalanceFactor”?

1 Like
193

F*** You are right, i’m going to change it. I’m sorry

194

Oh wonder where it went. I was in the middle of reading that when it went away

1 Like
195

Now you can come back, i’m sorry, i was in a hurry and i’ve made a stupid error

196

eh. it’s okay. you fixed it real quick

anyway
yay for only 2, 5 star cars and being one of them. not cheap, sure, but cheaper cars gets more expensive than the expensive car when you got into an accident :wink:

197

Happy with being the other 5-star car. Ardent’s long running commitment to safety paid off.

Side note with the fuel economy… I squeezed basically every last drop out of that thing that I could while still giving it decent performance. That’s 41 combined MPG, which on this side of the pond you can pretty much only get with a motorcycle or hybrid. I consider that a design win, even if Dad doesn’t. So I’m happy with that as well.

2 Likes
198

how similiar… almost 40mpg here.

except that my car has more space than the competition while doing that. win or not. that’s still achievement for me
(32.4% engine efficiency without turbo on a 19 year old engine platform that is still on SOHC. fuck yeah)

4 Likes
199

Looks like my body choice is really going to hurt me, I should have checked the other bodies instead of going with my first pick. O well, live and learn.

200

Today father and son tried all cars on the street. Here their comments.

The father has evaluated Drivability Comfort and length (easy to park)
The son did a more complete test evaluating engine (mostly torque and Performance Index), Sportiness, Comfort and performance (top speed and 0-100 time)

@doncornaldie Cornaldie Automotive Co Ltd Zip RS
Performance Index= 63; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 67,3; Sportiness= 22,7; Comfort= 32,8
Length= 4,21 m Max Speed= 154 km/h 0-100= 12,4 s

F: 4 Hmmmm…nothing exeptional, maybe bit long for the city
S: 3 Engine is good, but so slow

@vicVictory Ardent Motors Vizaya CSE
Performance Index= 68,3; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 65,2; Sportiness= 25,8; Comfort= 40,5
Length= 4,31 m Max Speed= 190 km/h 0-100= 12,4 s

F: 4 Not bad overall
S: 5 Another good engine, i like it

@8bs Fuentes S-Sx coupè sport
Performance Index= 64,8; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 58,3; Sportiness= 18,9; Comfort= 44
Length= 4,05 m Max Speed= 182 km/h 0-100= 12,8 s

F: 4 A bit too hard to drive for a youngster
S: 4 A bit boring, i will like it more if it was a bit sportier

@NormanVauxhall Znopresk Zap 1.1 Urbana
Performance Index= 47,7; Gearbox= SC6
Drivability= 63,8; Sportiness= 6,8; Comfort= 38,8
Length= 3,98 m Max Speed= 159 km/h 0-100= 15,1 s

F: 5 It’s ok
S: 0 No, please, it behave like my mother car

@HighOctaneLove Bogliq Kitten Brio
Performance Index= 55,2; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 72; Sportiness= 23,7; Comfort= 31,6
Length= 3,44 m Max Speed= 170 km/h 0-100= 11,9 s

F: 6 This one is easy and small
S: 4 Too slow for my taste

@Zabhawkin Zab C117
Performance Index= 56,3; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 65,6; Sportiness= 13,8; Comfort= 42,3
Length= 3,6 m Max Speed= 163 km/h 0-100= 14,2 s

F: 6 Not bad, i’m confortable here
S: 2 0 to 100 in… i don’t know, the test drive is too short

@conan Mitsushita Sebi 900
Performance Index= 42,4; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 64,9; Sportiness= 16,4; Comfort= 33,1
Length= 3,37 m Max Speed= 177 km/h 0-100= 14,1 s

F: 5 I can park it everywhere, i like this
S: 2 Where are the power?

@Mikonp7 EcaMobile Hammer Spur
Performance Index= 44,2; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 56,1; Sportiness= 20,5; Comfort= 35,7
Length= 3,48 m Max Speed= 160 km/h 0-100= 14,8 s

F: 3 Defently not good, too sporty for my son
S: 3 I need to get off and give this car a push

@DeusExMackia Erin Visto Lex Coupe 1.2
Performance Index= 59,4; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 58; Sportiness= 15,6; Comfort= 34,8
Length= 4,09 m Max Speed= 172 km/h 0-100= 12,1 s

F: 2 Small and undrivable
S: 2 I like more sportier cars

@one85db OMG Lfi
Performance Index= 61,9; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 59,7; Sportiness= 34; Comfort= 31,1
Length= 4,67 m Max Speed= 179 km/h 0-100= 11,6 s

F: 1 I miss the power steering, and it’s too long for our garage
S: 6 Not bad, this is fun to drive

@Dorifto_Dorito EDAC Weasel
Performance Index= 54,9; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 64,1; Sportiness= 19,5; Comfort= 33,8
Length= 3,95 m Max Speed= 175 km/h 0-100= 14,6 s

F: 4 Average
S: 3 Nothing to see here, i don’t like it so much

@Awildgermanappears Doberman Duet Marathon
Performance Index= 69,2; Gearbox= M5
Drivability= 59; Sportiness= 33; Comfort= 33
Length= 4,44 m Max Speed= 196 km/h 0-100= 12,5 s

F: 2 This one is definetly too big
S: 7 This car have a fantastic engine

@TheMiltos21 Betta Nicola
Performance Index= 65,3; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 64,3; Sportiness= 31,3; Comfort= 31,4
Length= 4,29 m Max Speed= 185 km/h 0-100= 13,5 s

F: 3 I can’t see where the car end, this style is good but not that pratical
S: 6 Good, is sporty

@oppositelock GSI Figurati
Performance Index= 57,7; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 57,3; Sportiness= 21,1; Comfort= 35,6
Length= 4,04 m Max Speed= 172 km/h 0-100= 12,8 s

F: 2 Impossible to drive
S: 3 With a little bit more torque it will be better

@HowlerAutomotive Howler Scamp A6
Performance Index= 65,8; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 65; Sportiness= 40; Comfort= 41,1
Length= 3,99 m Max Speed= 198 km/h 0-100= 11,6 s

F: 5 This one can be a good car
S: 9 Thiis thing is soo fast, wow

@Rk38 Maesima Devina
Performance Index= 63,1; Gearbox= DC7
Drivability= 60,1; Sportiness= 11,4; Comfort= 42,1
Length= 4,05 m Max Speed= 174 km/h 0-100= 12,1 s

F: 4 Harsh to drive, not my first choice
S: 3 The only good part of this car is the gearbox

@tr8r FOA City Junior
Performance Index= 65,8; Gearbox= SC6
Drivability= 69; Sportiness= 12,7; Comfort= 42,2
Length= 3,98 m Max Speed= 171,5 km/h 0-100= 14,9 s

F: 6 This one is easy, i like the gearbox, not too sporty
S: 3 Not that good, i’ve tried better cars

@TheBobWiley Memento City Sport
Performance Index= 60,2; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 72,4; Sportiness= 29,7; Comfort= 29,6
Length= 3,59 m Max Speed= 193 km/h 0-100= 11,9 s

F: 6 This one is good, very tame
S: 6 The performances of this car are astonishing, comfort not that well

@RED_E Wilson Pulse LX
Performance Index= 52,6; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 55,6; Sportiness= 7,8; Comfort= 40,6
Length= 3,98 m Max Speed= 172 km/h 0-100= 15,2 s

F: 3 no, with the Pulse my son is going to hit a tree
S: 0 The higher 0-100 time of the lot, next please

@gridghost Scarab Flare
Performance Index= 59,7; Gearbox= A6
Drivability= 52; Sportiness= 12,1; Comfort= 38,8
Length= 3,98 m Max Speed= 165 km/h 0-100= 13,1 s

F: 2 Even worst, pass
S: 1 I hate this automatic, this car behave like a bus

@MitsubishiFan Vpower Hype
Performance Index= 51,6; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 73,2; Sportiness= 28,5; Comfort= 49,5
Length= 3,36 m Max Speed= 197 km/h 0-100= 11,5 s

F: 9 Oh, finally, i like this one, it’s confortable, it’s tame and small.
S: 6 I can park it everywhere, and decently fast

@Dragawn Lucipur
Performance Index= 58,3; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 66,8; Sportiness= 44,1; Comfort= 44,3
Length= 3,62 m Max Speed= 200 km/h 0-100= 11,2 s

F: 7 A bit too fast for my taste but pretty easy to drive
S: 10 Wow, simply Wow, perfect

@Leonardo9613 Ikkonagashi 1090 L
Performance Index= 53,3; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 68,6; Sportiness= 34,2; Comfort= 42,7
Length= 3,73 m Max Speed= 195,2 km/h 0-100= 12,1 s

F: 7 This one is similar to the previus one, at least the behaviour
S: 7 This thing is pretty good overall, an engine more powerful will be apreciated

@AirJordan Smooth Lynx 1,1
Performance Index= 51,9; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 65,5; Sportiness= 25,8; Comfort= 62,2
Length= 3,55 m Max Speed= 202 km/h 0-100= 12,1 s

F: 9 I feel like a king, I love the interiors
S: 6 Over 200km/h in total comfort, not so fun

@koolkei Cuno
Performance Index= 68,6; Gearbox= A6
Drivability= 67,8; Sportiness= 5,5; Comfort= 46,9
Length= 4,37 m Max Speed= 166 km/h 0-100= 14,2 s

F: 6 It’s easy and comfortable but waay too big
S: 0 I’ve misjudjed this car, too heavy and big, i don’t like it anymore

@JohnWaldock JHW Retroniq
Performance Index= 46,8; Gearbox= M5
Drivability= 54,8; Sportiness= 22,4; Comfort= 34,4
Length= 3,41 m Max Speed= 183 km/h 0-100= 14,6 s

F: 3 This death machine is easy to activate, it do what it want
S: 4 Only five speeds, maybe a little more torque wold help

@Leedar Boiyd Sprite Sport
Performance Index= 64,7; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 82,3; Sportiness= 26; Comfort= 40,5
Length= 3,39 m Max Speed= 187 km/h 0-100= 12,4 s

F: 10 Wow, my favourite, it drive itself and i can see perfectly when i park
S: 6 Ok, fun, the big engine helps a lot

@MarcoAlla FIART Toro 90S
Performance Index= 64,4; Gearbox= M6
Drivability= 61; Sportiness= 20,3; Comfort= 65
Length= 3,97 m Max Speed= 180 km/h 0-100= 12,2 s

F: 8 So comfortable
S: 5 Wow, i hate this car, but i love the seats

@Xoury Sparrowq MVR mk7
Performance Index= 47,7; Gearbox= DC6
Drivability= 67,2; Sportiness= 40,8; Comfort= 27,5
Length= 3,58 m Max Speed= 192 km/h 0-100= 11,3 s

F: 4 I don’t like this so much
S: 8 This one is so ffast off the line, i can impress easly

Averages
Performance Index= 58;
Drivability= 64; Sportiness= 23; Comfort= 38.5
Length= 3.87m Max Speed= 180km/h 0-100= 13s

Now you have all the datas and opinions of father and son, which will prevail?

DISCLAIMER, this votes are ONLY math, the comments are made only for decor.
In particular dads weights are:

  • Drivability x5
  • Comfort x2
  • Lenght x2

Son weights:

  • Sportiness x6
  • Lenght x3
  • Top speed x3
  • 0-100 x3
  • Performance index x2
  • Comfort x2
  • 80-120 x1
  • Torque x1
  • A little bonus for the sequential gearbox, disavdvantage for Torque Converter
12 Likes
201

10.3 comfort? That’s not right. I need to check my original file when I get home. There’s NO way it’s that low.

1 Like