The Car Shopping Round (Round 64): Tears in Heaven

Do not take it the wrong way, but you yourself have had some hostile outbursts as well. Just wanting to let you know about it so you can acknowledge it and hopefully adjust yourself.

Of course I have in specific scenarios:

  1. When old members behave in a way I see as rude to newer members. They behave like they own the place and talk to people in condescension. That annoys me deeply as I believe that there should be mutual respect.

  2. When people trash talk my design without actually giving any constructive feedback.

Alright guys. If you wish to continue this discussion to clarify anything further, take it to PM. Cheers.

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If these things happen in future, just give us a flag and we will sort it out. No need to get worked up over it. :+1:

Also ninja’d by Mr Ram there, looks like it’s sorted out now anyway.

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@lordvader1

Now please, as requested can we get the thread back on track?

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@strop Wow, you really went to town with this round didn’t you! :smiley: Thank you for, er, ‘critiquing’ the Alstrena, I’m sure the marketing division will be interested to hear your thoughts :wink:

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Funnily enough I was slightly surprised at the strength of reaction to a certain comment. Was it because of our client? Seeing as how I did flatly pan lordvader’s submission I reckon he woulda said something similar regardless of who the client was :joy:

That said I did put a ton of hints and guidelines in the brief, I’m not sure if it wasn’t too much.

It must be said that of my three clients so far, Strop is “nice and open-minded”, Kai just likes to drive as long as the car can drive, but Tesla a) takes no bullshit b) has some specific needs and conflicting circumstances. That’ll explain why I took my diplomat filter off for this round and really gave some of the entries a good spraying :joy:

@Mikonp7 aha that makes a lot more sense. You’re right it doesn’t make a huge difference to my flavour text, but I’ll fix the figure for accuracy.

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AFAIK the Rolls/Bentley 6ž Litre has always been an all-aluminium engine, which I found surprising since their cars are already so heavy and in no way sporting. They might as well have saved costs with iron, which according to Automation would yield a quieter and more reliable engine.

I was tempted to add specific off-road capability, but that doesn’t roleplay very well for either Bowles-Noyce or for the traditional Australian ute which is always(?) RWD and designed for driving on roads or maybe dry plains.

Also, originally I went with ‘Bowles-Joyce’ but that doesn’t abbreviate very well. :wink:

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This explains a lot. I’m less surprised by the historical context now, knowing… BN :wink:

“…and the lack of traction control is a slight mystery…”
Wait wh- goes into Automation to check

Seriously well written pieces though, huge kudos to you as usual, Strop, loved reading through them :+1:

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P.s. critical and unexpected emergency notwithstanding, final reviews and results will be out in twelve hours or I’ll eat my shoes!!!

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So, does exceeding the minimum safety have any benefit? Doesn’t seem like it from your scoring.

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I’ll get the ketchup then…

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Depends on the context. As I said in the brief Tesla is mainly hauling stuff and isn’t a supercar driver, so she’s not likely to go excessively fast in most conditions. I only comment on when safety is insufficient or seems regressive (see basic options only on the Bogliq). Having extra safety isn’t bad but won’t offer any tangible benefits on a day to day basis, thus as per standard GG staff we don’t weight it heavily.

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Have to ask, did Kai at least enjoy driving the Sinistra Starfire?

See final verdict and imagine it was Kai saying that :wink:

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Oops sorry, I hit submit far too early.


Having admitted defeat earlier, time ran thinner than ever, so with feverish haste did Tesla return to the projector. A decision had to be made now!


Thoughts: Broadly speaking, the wisdom of vehicle manufacturing is that the customer needs to know what the vehicle is supposed to do. I know this logic doesn’t apply to SUVs and crossovers, but that’s because people are stupid. At least when it comes to utes, the big fat tray tells you: this is designed to carry stuff. Then, the rest of the ute will tell you whether it’s an offroading ute, or a sports ute, or a budget ute, or a luxury touring ute. That’s generally how it goes. The problem arises when you build something that’s six of one and half a dozen of the other. This unfortunately is one of those examples. As a new ute it looks the part of the grunty sporty ute (and how!) and the use of turbo and sporty geared manual six spead with geared LSD and alloy wheels with sporting tyre profile. It also has an interior that’s a cut above, like a few of the others here. So far so good. Problems with its original ostensible purpose arise when we consider that this has the smallest tray for its body by quite a long shot, and the turbo is tuned to spool up around 3krpm, which is more the realm of serious sports and supercars. Then add to that the rather truncated redline and you have your six and half dozen. What I mean is this dyno chart:

I imagined that the turbo in a ute would be there to give that dollop of low end torque where it was needed more than anything else, or even, at a stretch, give power throughout the entire range. This one robs you off the hauling torque, and then cuts the power off where it was being given.

Verdict: Keep your designers, but fire your engineers.

Thoughts: It may be plain and business like but the engine is one of the best of the bunch. An inline-six with an early spooling turbo blasting out almost 600Nm of torque from the get go.

I mean just look at this, big torque from 1400rpm, that’s a masterstroke for a turbo hauler.

A lot of effort went into making OHV a viable prospect in the modern market, and the effort shows here, with marvellous efficiency for its displacement. In terms of its versatility, it seems geared more towards the sporting side of things with fat tyres and alloys, which give it pretty grippy cornering, but otherwise it has no pretentions or airs: standard interior, decent haul capacity, eminently practical. Doesn’t just look the business, it suits the business at a good price too.

Verdict: One of, if not the best engines in the field, which goes into a superior budget offering. Isn’t built to haul heavy duty as much as some here, will the extra value be worth it?

Thoughts: Very similar to the Cario Clone and the Sinistra. It’s quick, not quite as quick as the Sinistra, but it also combines the finer points of the turbo i6, having more grunt. As a result it’s a rare member of the 300km/h club, though possessing a 6 speed manual, naturally, first is again, rather tall. It also possesses very wide tyres (275s!), and therefore sticks to the road like it was glued there, which put it firmly on the podium for track performance. The extra sound insulation is a blessing, therefore, but the real magic lies in the fuel economy. Compared to the Cario and Sinistra it has merely adequate hauling capacity and is on the expensive side, but is more liveable and more composed and capable on the road. Unfortunately when compared in this way against the criteria as they are, much like the unassuming, almost camoflagued styling characteristic of GSI, it can end up blending in and being overlooked.

Verdict: A decent vehicle in its own right, but somehow just not quite as standout in any one aspect as any number of others here.

Thoughts: Talk about… unique. To a niche market Adenine brought something that redefined it by combining not the compact SUV offroader, but the hot hatch with a tray-back conversion. Because it’s such a niche market (consisting of one or two utter shitboxes), it’s cheap to buy, and because it was made simple, it’s cheap to maintain, making it by far and away the best value of the bunch. This is serious contender for the most fun ute, ever, with grippy wheels, a peppy turbo with an economical i4 with lots of top end, and AWD. It’s light, it’s fast, and despite being built to withstand big loads it corners like its on rails. The downside: as a smaller vehicle it’s a tad cramped, the tray may be deep but it isn’t huge and it does suffer from an alarming lack of low end torque, so even if the suspension can take it, the engine may not.* And Tesla does a lot of hauling, so that’s a pretty big point of concern: she’d probably have to change the clutch every few months!

*doing the math on this one, until about 2500rpm it’s doing 160-200Nm of torque. If it had a metric ton in the tray, that’s 2.2 tons. Not an awful lot of force to go around.

Verdict: A small ute with a big heart that defies the odds. Brilliant, mad, but still fundamentally limited by the incompatibility of a small engine versus big towing requirements. Will that be its downfall?

Thoughts: With a name like the Rage, this Mott Works product looks all the part (seems to be a MW thing). Angry thick set fascia ready to take a bite into you, and a menacing rear too… and once again those not-actually-street-legal side pipes. When it comes to the business of being a ute, the first curious thing is the choice of a small displacement (well, under 3L) high revving (nearly 9k!!!) V6, which, coupled with a rather tall 1st gear, is likely to result in a lot of burnt clutches or stalling with the tray fully loaded. Hm. Add to this the fact it’s made out of aluminium, shod in proper sports tyres, has a freaking spoiler and splitter and fully clad undertray, and active suspension components really points to one thing: this is a sports car disguised as a ute. Its price tag, too, disabuses the unwary drive of the notion that this is the working dog’s kind of vehicle, being flat out the most expensive thing to buy we’ve viewed this week. Forget getting any work done, in the hands of Kai this turned into a track missile. It wasn’t the fastest by virtue of its comparatively low output (300bhp, pshaw), but it had the most grip by a long shot and proved it by sending Tesla’s ovaries to somewhere in the vicinity of her spleen on the way to nearly keeping up with utes with twice the power.

Verdict: This isn’t a towing ute. This is a touring ute, as in, you could probably enter it in the BTCC :joy:

Thoughts: Ah, the inevitable diesel. The modern totem to what utes have become (trucks), displacing the cultural legacy of the iconic Australian ute in the name of upsizing and marketing. At least diesel makes more sense in larger vehicles, and not that bullshit you get trying to place heavy vehicle technology in a car. Whose idea was that anyway?

In case you didn’t already realise, this is the sole diesel (and 4 seater) of the bunch. And as a diesel truck it does everything a diesel truck should, including be slightly more expensive and heavier but also have dollops of low end torque. Except for the fact that it’s not exactly the torquiest of the bunch here. But it sure is the heaviest, it’s pretty friggin huge actually, to the point that the brakes can’t really keep up, let alone under full load conditions. Otherwise, it’s really constructed to haul and also somewhat to go offroad. But the really distinctive feature of this particular vehicle is the use of an auto locker. As an option this marks the vehicle as for those who would ‘occasionally’ offroad in their part-time 4x4, but at the expense of certain elements of handling predictability. Unfortunately, as good looking and rugged as it was designed to be, and as panty-flooding as the artistry of the brochure was, in the cold harsh light of reality, for daily usability and recreation the Reveho was outshone and outcompromised by many of its cheaper competitors… which was the original purpose of the ute after all (full circle, anyone?) There was no denying the importance of its superior purpose built hauling capacity, but would that win out overall?

Verdict: Big diesels do make the best haulers. But the question of whether a truck is a ute is far more than semantics, it’s a philosophy that speaks of our way of life.

Thoughts: Tesla nearly fell out of her chair laughing when she read the ad. Part from the hilarity of it, and part from the sheer delight of being able to mash a love of pop-culture with an anachronism with a mad weird buggy thing with a tray on it. This… thing looks like it could be crazy fun. A bit (or a lot) of Mad Max inspiration (right down to the paintjob of the original MFP Pursuit Interceptor), compact size, budget price and very frugal, and a lot of offroad capability. This could very well be an ideal outback beater. The gaps in the product however start literal: the gaps in the panels. The build quality is absolutely horrendous for a start. The other big issue here is that it’s not big, it’s positively tiny, with a tiny tray. One that couldn’t possibly fit even a half decent kitchen table, and given Tesla’s well documented habits, this would be a rather significant shortcoming.

Verdict: It’s the duck’s guts. But you couldn’t even fit the Nightrider’s coffin on the tray.

Thoughts: Well hellooooo aren’t you the handsome one! And in such a nice shade too. And that NA V8 sure sounds good too. Despite the gaudiness, this is the sensible one out of the sports utes, and comes in AWD too, for that extra traction. Makes sense given Canada is known for somewhat more… icy weather than in Australia. But it certainly isn’t for the offroading, that’s for sure, given it’s shod in sportier, wider tyres, has a taller 1st, has really sporty brake pads, a semi-clad undertray, aero bodykit, and LAUNCH CONTROL. It goes so far as to use independent sporty suspension, which does detract from its hauling capacity. Most bemusing was that compared to its more bonkers rivals, this ute actually looked more like the hero ute enthusiasts wanted, and it felt every part as sporty as the rest (with the exception of the actually-a-race-car MW Rage), it ultimately lived up to its sensible mild-mannered image, being the slowest of the ‘sports utes’ by quite a margin.

Verdict: How to make a hot chocolate out of vodka shots. By the way, that’s probably a terrible combination.

Thoughts: From the slowest sports ute, to the fastest sports ute. Which also makes it the least sensible of the sporting utes, geared to do one thing: go around a track fast. Which makes its suspension choice, which is geared towards actually hauling stuff, slightly strange: if you’re going to give up the pretense and build a sports car that has a tray, why not go the whole hog instead of just building a sporty ute? There’s no much more room for interpretation given the 305 low profiles on the rear (sweet Jesus) that give enormous traction aided by the electric LSD, sending one rocketing to 100km/h in just a touch over 4 seconds flat. Interestingly it’s less point and shoot than the more overpowered options in this sector, and has close to best lateral grip in its class (second only to the Rage, no real wonder). On the other hand for its gearing it also has a surprisingly low top speed, which we later learnt was due to the enormous amount of drag because it directed so much air to its brakes! But it comes at enormous cost, of both ride quality, fuel economy, and also the price. Maybe pretense was a bit harsh, the manufacturer statement did indicate they were fully aware this was a thinly veiled hero market ute that essentially forgot its original purpose and tried to outdo a supercar. In that respect it isn’t far off. After emerging all windswept and dishevelled from the brutal, visceral ride in which Kai may have deliberately taken them through the windiest B-road in Victoria for their test drive, they finally realised they didn’t even know what this thing was called.

Verdict: Who cares if it’s rubbish at everything else, it’s the fastest, right?

Thoughts: In keeping with FOA, this is a real rugged business end of utes. It’s AWD, with a manual locker. It’s also easy to drive, has a comfy interior, it goes a lot of places, and somehow it’s economical to boot. It’s like all the actual good parts of SUVs came to utes. This is the only ute with a naturally aspirated i6, and it’s not an especially huge block at that, so the overall output of 350Nm and 250hp isn’t especially huge, in fact I would have been somewhat critical of those figures in some other entries. In addition the tyres are the narrowest in class (185s!), in fact to the point that it seriously limits grip compared to regular road-going vehicles, both laterally and braking wise. Of course as a result of all this it doesn’t exactly have teeth on the road like so many other tray warriors, but if you’re busy going bush, beach or camping, then who cares???

Verdict: If the snorkel, bullbar and rally lights aren’t overly expensive as optional extras, this could be a real bush prospect.

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What’s with the glitchy ‘value’ score on the web chart? Did you intentionally put value >10?

Woohooo!!!

We didn’t get completely panned!!!

*Doing a happy dance in the corner! :slight_smile: *

@leedar: sure did. Two of these entries were so cheap to buy and maintain that they were off the charts.

#CSR38 First Cut

Through the windows of the boardroom office, the sunset cast its velvet glow, signifying an entire afternoon spent on not doing any actual work and being paid for it (hooray!) But now came the business end of the day: choosing and buying.

Clearly the easiest way to make a decision from a large field of candidates, was to make it a smaller field of candidates. Which meant filtering out the patently unsuitable utes.

@abg7 2012 Zorg ZV4 Utility 2.6: can’t haul enough, gets cut
@AirJordan 2011 Smooth Motors El-Enterato: weirdly appealing and versatile, shortlisted
@apocalypticinfinity 2000 SPU: not even when I’m drunk, gets cut
@BobLobLaw 1997 Petoskey Daemon TK: oldskool is best skool, shortlisted
@Conan 2013 Whitworth Ute 5.1: I told you Holdens were shit Hannah, gets cut
@DeusExMackia 2006 Alstrena UL-5: don’t tell your fucking marketing team, tell your board to get its shit together and stop making cynical plays for cash or you’ll go the same way Holden did. gets cut
@doncornaldie 2016 VX-T: turns out adequate isn’t enough. gets cut
@Dragawn 2013 Dragotec Coyote: it is possible to drool from more than one place at one time, shortlisted
@HighOctaneLove 2017 Bogliq Maverick Loadstar: definitely competent, if a bit no-frills and a bit short on airbags. shortlisted
@JohnWaldock 2010 JHW Peregrine HST: a family sedan dressed as a ute works in Mexico, maybe, but in Australia, the tray is strictly for your dog, not your kids. gets cut
@koolkei 2011 Cario Clone- it’s sort of good, so it sort of gets another look. shortlisted
@LaffingHyena 2017 “Big Turk”: drop it like it’s hot. gets cut
@Leedar 2013 Bowles-Noyce Factory Lorry: definitely a bit of Noyce, shortlisted
@LordLetto 2017 Letto Motors Utilita: it’s way better on paper than it has any right to be, gets cut
@lordvader1 2017 Lord Vader Cars Etam Mk.II: Some say brave, others say stupid, but hauling a ton of stuff with FWD can only be the latter. gets cut
@Madrias 2012 Sinistra Starfire SE-8: aaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha BRRRRM BRRRRRM, shortlisted
@mikonp7 2017 EcaMobile Wildschwein: the V12 nobody knew they didn’t want, gets cut
@Mythrin 2015 Versal Penumbra Bi-Turbo: boosting oneself out of contention, gets cut
@nialloftara 2010 Centauri Ridgeback Express: means business, shortlisted
@oppositelock 2017 Grey Skies Industries Panorama: as anonymous as the company’s owner, not bad but also not that good despite everything. gets cut
@phale 2012 Adenine Automotive BandicUte RS: so crazy (and cheap) it just might work. shortlisted
@rcracer11m 2017 Mott Works Rage : I wanted a ute for hauling, not a racing ute. gets cut
@Rk38 @szafirowy01 2017 Maesima Reveho GX-Z Pluscab 3.1: sometimes big is beautiful. shortlisted
@TheBobWiley 2012 Ankomst Automotive Jaktplan: fucking brilliant but it just won’t do the job and it’ll probably fall apart. gets cut
@thecarlover 2013 Canada Motors Quebec Utility S: for a good sports ute it’s sure slow, good thing I don’t think I’m Fangio. shortlisted
@theElt 2017 ???: go duke it out with the MW Rage. gets cut
@TR8R 2017 First Order Automotive Outlander: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—. I took the one less traveled by. shortlisted


Well, that was easy, thought Tesla. Probably because that was just round 1. Which left her with:

AirJordan’s 2011 Smooth Motors El-Enterato
BobLobLaw’s 1997 Petoskey Daemon TK
Dragawn’s 2013 Dragotec Coyote
HighOctaneLove’s 2017 Bogliq Maverick Loadstar
koolkei’s 2011 Cario Clone
Leedar’s 2013 Bowles-Noyce Factory Lorry
Madrias’ 2012 Sinistra Starfire SE-8
nialloftara’s 2010 Centauri Ridgeback Express
phale’s 2012 Adenine Automotive BandicUte RS
Rk38/szafirowy01’s 2017 Maesima Reveho GX-Z Pluscab 3.1
thecarlover’s 2013 Canada Motors Quebec Utility S
TR8R’s 2017 First Order Automotive Outlander


#CSR38 Second Cut

This field of remaining entries was just as varied as the original set, except perhaps minus some truly crazy frankensteiner machines. But the hard part now was prioritising which of her demands was the most important. In a loose sense, it would probably go in order of hauling, living with it, paying for it (all very close together), then having fun with it with the old skool touch being a very wild-card like bonus. Maybe. But if a lesser priority was strong enough it could tip the tables? Hard to tell.

The only way to do this was to start comparing the entries directly, by class as arranged by Waxwell’s algorithms.

Sports utes:
Cario Clone

Starfire SE-8

Quebec Utility S

These utes somehow had to find a compromise between the things that made them fast on the road with things that made them good haulers, as these two attributes were almost mutually exclusive except for the engine. By reckoning, the Cario Clone was the quintessential competent sports ute. The Starfire was more amusing, could haul more by virtue of its ridiculous output, but also a lot more expensive. The Quebec was the best to live with all week around but barely cut it as a hauler. A bit too close to call, so moving along.

Offroaders:
Coyote

Outlander

These were both very attractive propositions. The Coyote had more wow factor, but the Outlander was more liveable.

Heavy-Duty Haulers:
Daemon TK

Maverick Loadstar

Factory Lorry

Reveho

Not surprisingly anything that was particularly strong at hauling was still in the mix. The Daemon was the old skool pick of the bunch. The Loadstar was new but all around good. The Bowles-Noyce was incredible in most respects but not a particularly recreational vehicle, but in terms of capability it did manage to outshine the diesel, whose sole advantage was that it had a bigger tray and could still seat 4. The seating 4 bit wasn’t exactly important, so the Reveho became the first cut of the round, thus proving that in real life, diesel trucks only took over because utes stopped being good at being utes.

All-Rounders: Ridgeback Express

This category was more frequently a euphemism for the utes that were all-around not particularly strong at anything, either because they were cheap, or their engineering wasn’t compatible with the task at hand. The Ridgeback Express was the sole exception to this because it was not only cheap, but it was damn good at most things. Being cheap, it wasn’t quite as capable at hauling nor nearly as comfortable as many of its nearest rivals, but it sure was more reliable and frugal.

Left-Field:
El-Enterato

BandicUte RS

These utes defied the model which Waxwell put together in all of 5 minutes, either because the numbers didn’t reflect the dogs-breakfast that they were, or they were simply mad conceptions. The BandicUte got most of its Weekday points from being eminently driveable, but truth be told, that was partly because it was so easy to toss around like the hot hatch that inspired it. If Tesla had lived, say, in Japan, then it would have been a smash hit in places like Tsukuba and Ebisu, for sure. For the rigors of the Australian lifestyle, it would probably barely hold up at least 50% of the time, so sadly, it wasn’t the vehicle for Tesla. El-Enterato got to hang around some more, because frankly nobody knew what the hell to make of it :joy:

By that reasoning, if the BandicUte had to go because it wasn’t up to hauling, then the Quebec Utility S was the next to go, despite very much otherwise fitting the bill in so many respects and looking good to boot.

This drew attention back to the dogged persistence of the average Cario Clone. It was probably on borrowed time, doomed not to win, but it could at least be used as a suitable value:daily driver litmus against some of the other remaining entries. This proved to be a useful decision-making tool, because compared to just about everything else, it lost out, except to the Starfire SE-8, and the Daemon TK. Tesla wasn’t ready to let the Daemon TK go just yet, so she’d come to that later. But the SE-8, while it had a truly heroic giggle-inducing engine, it really was the most expensive of the rest, and it didn’t quite offer all round superiority to go with it, so it went. On that note, the Cario also finally got the chop.

This left the Coyote, Outlander, Daemon TK, Maverick Loadstar, Factory Lorry, Ridgeback Express and El-Enterato.

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