What is it that you want? Realistic calculations to represent real life things? Or freedom with fantasy/impossible to real-life stuff?
I’d pick the realistic one, with a nice gameflow and something that doesn’t take me two hours to produce my first car, really.
[quote=“oppositelock”]
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7546/16267581741_5191aab35b_o.jpg[/quote]
You wouldn’t need a separate final drive if you replaced the top speed bar with it, move the top speed number to the graph above the top gear’s line, clear up room for the extra ratios, tuck the final drive slider in with spacing so that leaves 2 full columns for ratio bars. However you would need a calculation on min and max for each one so you don’t over lap them.
All that said I’m totally fine with the current in game system, in encourages a engine with a broad powerband which most cars have.
[quote=“nialloftara”]
[quote=“oppositelock”]
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7546/16267581741_5191aab35b_o.jpg[/quote]
You wouldn’t need a separate final drive if you replaced the top speed bar with it, move the top speed number to the graph above the top gear’s line, clear up room for the extra ratios, tuck the final drive slider in with spacing so that leaves 2 full columns for ratio bars. However you would need a calculation on min and max for each one so you don’t over lap them.
All that said I’m totally fine with the current in game system, in encourages a engine with a broad powerband which most cars have.[/quote]
I think this is a good idea… It doesn’t really add too much to the complexity while fitting everything into the UI nicely.
I was actually one of the few who liked the gearbox designer they had before, and thought that with a gearbox market it would have been great. I think it would have added some interesting design choices to the game… Like for all the high output FWD I4’s I see people building, in the game they would have to choose between a gearbox barely rated to handle the torque and take a hit to reliability, or design a new gearbox themselves at greater cost…
Ever wonder why every single manual transmission fitting to a FWD performance car is utter shit?.. Because it was probably designed for an economy car. There are exceptions, but even then they generally aren’t that much better. (the 6spd in my bro’s RSX-S has been nothing but problems, but that was mainly the shift cables snapping everytime you looked at them funny)
My Saab is a good example of this. They used what was available (shitty GM transmission) and its barely rated for the torque output of the engine. Its literally right on the line of what the transmission was designed for… It definitely was not designed for forced induction in mind.
But anyways, I’d setting for the solution posted above…
Automation needs in the Automatic transmisions a double clutch gearbox (the performance is very similar to the sequential with double clutch, with the Automatic comfort). Is a DSG, PDK, DKG…
And needs a automatic transmission with 10 gears (look the new Ford F150, with 10 gears).
[quote=“nialloftara”]
[quote=“oppositelock”]
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7546/16267581741_5191aab35b_o.jpg[/quote]
You wouldn’t need a separate final drive if you replaced the top speed bar with it, move the top speed number to the graph above the top gear’s line, clear up room for the extra ratios, tuck the final drive slider in with spacing so that leaves 2 full columns for ratio bars. However you would need a calculation on min and max for each one so you don’t over lap them.
All that said I’m totally fine with the current in game system, in encourages a engine with a broad powerband which most cars have.[/quote]
And if you could change between standard and this transmission setup in options menu just like you choose displayed units then more casual players wouldnt have a problem with it.
[quote=“ktos3”]
[quote=“nialloftara”]
You wouldn’t need a separate final drive if you replaced the top speed bar with it, move the top speed number to the graph above the top gear’s line, clear up room for the extra ratios, tuck the final drive slider in with spacing so that leaves 2 full columns for ratio bars. However you would need a calculation on min and max for each one so you don’t over lap them.
All that said I’m totally fine with the current in game system, in encourages a engine with a broad powerband which most cars have.
And if you could change between standard and this transmission setup in options menu just like you choose displayed units then more casual players wouldnt have a problem with it.[/quote]
Add button right there to switch between picking the gears ratios or picking topSpd and Spacing. Simple. And that was exactly what I was proposing in my other posts.
A lot of us here are petrolheads, and yes I do understand why you would want to adjust the gears individually. But this game is aimed at CASUAL gamers, but at the same time keeping it deep enough for petrolheads to enjoy. I don’t see this as a valuable addition. Let me explain why.
Here you are, the casual gamer, looking to build your dream car empire. Oh look, there is a community championship,. Build a car, race it! Nice! But no single casual player will ever win, because some petrolheads, know how to adjust the gearing, and eventhough I spent hours and hours and hours on the game, I don’t know how to do it in such a way that it really benefits my car and makes it (a lot) faster. So I will never win the competitions.
Another note: This game is a CAR COMPANY TYCOON game, not a CAR BUILD SIMULATION game. I think this will turn the game further away from the company tycoon aspect. Not only that, but the developers have to explain how that gearing works and make tutorial videos on it. It wouldn’t make any sense explaning everything and then end up not explaning this particular part in the game. And a checkbox to select the simple or advanced option, isn’t going to cover it in my opinion.
The current car designer and engine designer are already quite complex. I think adding a lot more stuff like this will make it even more complex and will add too little gameplay to the game for 80% of the players, still the vast majority. So to keep it accesible for a lot of players that aren’t petrolheads, I don’t think this should be implemented.
I would almost go as far as to say the car designer is superfluous from a car tycoon point of view since the look of the car isn’t going to influence the tycoon part. I don’t think the developers will have developed a aesthetics evaluation engine into the game 
A casual gamer isn’t going to win against real petrolheads even without advanced transmision setup.Solving that problem is as simple as adding “simple transmision setup only” to championship description.
[quote=“WizzyThaMan”]Not only that, but the developers have to explain how that gearing works and make tutorial videos on it. It wouldn’t make any sense explaning everything and then end up not explaning this particular part in the game. And a checkbox to select the simple or advanced option, isn’t going to cover it in my opinion.
The current car designer and engine designer are already quite complex. I think adding a lot more stuff like this will make it even more complex and will add too little gameplay to the game for 80% of the players, still the vast majority. So to keep it accesible for a lot of players that aren’t petrolheads, I don’t think this should be implemented.[/quote]
What about turbos and suspensions?They have easy modes and tutorials explaining everything.Why transmisions can’t have that?I don’t think they’re less important than suspensions
I forgot to mention that the developers have already had this in the game, and it didnt seem to work out, or else it would have definetly stayed in the game.
As for the championships, sure casual gamers wont win from real petrolheads, but is that a valid point to make the game even harder to understand? Besides, it doesn’t add a lot to the gameplay. If there is something to be implemented, it will probably be something like Economy setup gearing, sporty setup gearing etc. like turbo and suspensions have. That would be a viable option. Nevertheless I still think it is too much work for too little gain. But if the developers choose to do so, then who am I to say no?
Utopian: The car designer (eventhough there is no aethetics calculation thing) is what makes this game different from all the other games. It provides tons of creative freedom and therefore is adding enormous amounts to the gameplay, where this gearing system is something very different. The car designer is one of its Unique Selling Points (USP) where as the gearing is not. So you can rally compare them.
I still don’t understand what difference does it make to adjust individual gear ratios. You can already do everything reasonable with the current system. Only thing you could do with individual ratios is to have for example very long third gear but short fourth gear which doesn’t make any sense.
Only thing I was after in this thread earlier is the point that not every single gearbox is perfect fit for every car. Manufacturers do make compromises so that they don’t have to build new box for every model they create. That was the only thing I was after and this might be solvable with some kind of system close to engine families. At the moment we can tailor every box for every model without penalty in engineering and tooling costs.
This said I’m still happy with the current system if developers don’t think it’s worth the amout of time spend on this.
[quote=“JussiE”]I still don’t understand what difference does it make to adjust individual gear ratios. You can already do everything reasonable with the current system. Only thing you could do with individual ratios is to have for example very long third gear but short fourth gear which doesn’t make any sense.
Only thing I was after in this thread earlier is the point that not every single gearbox is perfect fit for every car. Manufacturers do make compromises so that they don’t have to build new box for every model they create. That was the only thing I was after and this might be solvable with some kind of system close to engine families. At the moment we can tailor every box for every model without penalty in engineering and tooling costs.
This said I’m still happy with the current system if developers don’t think it’s worth the amout of time spend on this.[/quote]
Today, more cars have the last gear longer than the rest to reduce the fuel consumption.
And you can already do this with Spacing and setting the top speed far more than the car actually could achieve.
[quote=“JussiE”]
And you can already do this with Spacing and setting the top speed far more than the car actually could achieve.[/quote]
^^^ True that. I agree Jussie, I think it should be something like the tabs system: Economic setup, Sporty setup, Normal/Standard setup, etc.
That would make sense, since the developers have done this for the more difficult settings like Springs and Turbo’s.
[quote=“WizzyThaMan”]A lot of us here are petrolheads, and yes I do understand why you would want to adjust the gears individually. But this game is aimed at CASUAL gamers, but at the same time keeping it deep enough for petrolheads to enjoy. I don’t see this as a valuable addition. Let me explain why.
Here you are, the casual gamer, looking to build your dream car empire. Oh look, there is a community championship,. Build a car, race it! Nice! But no single casual player will ever win, because some petrolheads, know how to adjust the gearing, and eventhough I spent hours and hours and hours on the game[/quote]
CASUAL gamers certainly wont ajust bore and stroke to the millimetre.
CASUAL players will never win the community races. There are people there that ONLY PLAY race car building already. I make the most powerful cars in every race I’ve entered so far and I never own. THERE IS NOTHING CASUAL ABOUT THAT!
GranTurismo is pretty casual and they have ratio tuning. I never adjusted ratios individually and I’ve won lot’s of races. Most races I even use stock gearboxes.
For me GT is the best game at approaching casual while maintaining a good simulation player base.
Know what is the difference between a Saxo VTS 1.6 and a 106 GTi 1.6? Nothing except the Saxo has a longer 2nd so that the car reached 100Km/h in second and thus having a better 0-100Km/h time. Even though the Peugeot has better gear ratios. That is something that can happen in-game and that is not rocket science.
Gearboxes change next to nothing compared to suspensions.
You can’t claim casual friendly here. Doesn’t make sense.
Pmp this is for casual users, if you’ve ever used desktop dyno you’d know. I’m a pretty big petrol head but when it comes to building a engine I must prefer this game to that, I can burn through a evening pretty quick setting cam overlap, lift speed and duration or playing with the cfm of my carb, don’t even get me started with designing your own turbocharger. This is a tycoon game, or will be soon. Right now we are all obsessing over the features we have and wishing for more but we have to remember that we have barely begun to see the actual gameplay of it. Building factories managing susply lines and trying to undercut your competitors with a new design that doesn’t bankrupt you.
Sure us petrol heads will want more but there’s other games for that, it’s not in the scope of this one. Also GT is a DRIVING simulatior this is not, the forum racing is just us having fun waiting for the actual game to be made.
[quote=“PMP1337”]
CASUAL gamers certainly wont ajust bore and stroke to the millimetre. THey will if there is a competition limit
CASUAL players will never win the community races. There are people there that ONLY PLAY race car building already. I make the most powerful cars in every race I’ve entered so far and I never own. THERE IS NOTHING CASUAL ABOUT THAT!Im saying winning, but basically, it should still be challenging to even apply for competitions and don’t feel like losing at start. That also has to do with the challenge limitations, though.
GranTurismo is pretty casual and they have ratio tuning. I never adjusted ratios individually and I’ve won lot’s of races. Most races I even use stock gearboxes.
For me GT is the best game at approaching casual while maintaining a good simulation player base.Gran Turismo is a SIMULATION game, eventhough it has a casual approach, the simulation allows for very indepth stuff. Automation is by no mean an indepth simulation that could be compared to Gran Turismo.
Know what is the difference between a Saxo VTS 1.6 and a 106 GTi 1.6? Nothing except the Saxo has a longer 2nd so that the car reached 100Km/h in second and thus having a better 0-100Km/h time. Even though the Peugeot has better gear ratios. That is something that can happen in-game and that is not rocket science.
Gearboxes change next to nothing compared to suspensions.“Gearboxes change next to nothing compared to suspensions.” Here you basically agree with me that it doesnt need to be implemented. It changes next to nothing, so why should it be implemented then? Just to feed the hunger of the petrolheads?
You can’t claim casual friendly here. Doesn’t make sense. It is basically a sum; 1+1. It’s not only casual, but also tycoon and not simulation, also about how much gameplay it generates comapred to the work effort. The game itself is already pretty complex, and making it more complex can scare players away.[/quote]
I think the game offers enough ways already to make cars very diverse. Just a little bit of different cam profile, ignition timing, bore, stroke, compression or fuel mixture; Just a little bit of quality difference; Just a little bit of gear spacing, top speed, down force, cooling and so on, and so on, can make you at least 25 cars that give you 25 different strengths and weaknesses to faster acceleration,. top speed, cornering, weight etc. That little bit of gearing management is not going to do that much at all.
As I said, buttons like Sporty gearing, Economic gearing, Normal/Standard gearing, etc. will do the trick for those to have a little bit more freedom. IF IT EVER GETS IMPLEMENTED But that is my opinion, and I’m not asking you to agree with me.
[quote=“nialloftara”]Pmp this is for casual users, if you’ve ever used desktop dyno you’d know. I’m a pretty big petrol head but when it comes to building a engine I must prefer this game to that, I can burn through a evening pretty quick setting cam overlap, lift speed and duration or playing with the cfm of my carb, don’t even get me started with designing your own turbocharger. This is a tycoon game, or will be soon. Right now we are all obsessing over the features we have and wishing for more but we have to remember that we have barely begun to see the actual gameplay of it. Building factories managing susply lines and trying to undercut your competitors with a new design that doesn’t bankrupt you.
Sure us petrol heads will want more but there’s other games for that, it’s not in the scope of this one. Also GT is a DRIVING simulatior this is not, the forum racing is just us having fun waiting for the actual game to be made.[/quote]
Everything you listed is 50x more complex than gear ratios, gear ratios are quite simple, just take the current setups top speed adjustment slide, and apply that to individual gears, a simple system that casual gamers will understand, Gear 1 = 56 mph, gear 2 = 87 etc. Use top speed of the gear rather than listing the ratios. Playing with these settings is just like playing with all of the other adjustments in the game, except this gives you much greater control over how your car behaves compared to many of the current sliders in game.
Just to say, i dont expect this any time soon, much more important features are being made rather than updating a rather “complete” section of the game.
Guys. I appreciate all your opinions, and I understand some of you would like as much detail as possible, but for now it is the way it is. Our current focus is on getting a finished first pass of the three main game aspects (engine design, car design, tycoon game)
We’ll continue to evaluate our design choices as the game is further completed, and if the gearbox settings turn out to be something that hurts the gameplay experience we may revise them somewhat.
This thread isn’t really going anywhere anymore. We all understand the advantages and disadvantages of different amounts of detail/control and is not something that is going to change in the near future.
[quote=“WizzyThaMan”]
And you can already do this with Spacing and setting the top speed far more than the car actually could achieve.
^^^ True that. I agree Jussie, I think it should be something like the tabs system: Economic setup, Sporty setup, Normal/Standard setup, etc.
That would make sense, since the developers have done this for the more difficult settings like Springs and Turbo’s.[/quote]
No is this.
I will say that the individual adjustment gives more freedom to adjust the performance of the car.
For example, for a sedan like a Opel Insignia, I can adjust the first 4-5 gears more closed than the last gear, and make the last gear longer to improve the fuel saving, the reduction of engine sound.