well that’s my exact point.
car -> new tech = relatively bad -> solar panels and other alternative power sources
horse -> developed tech = relatively good -> our fossil fuel powered infrastructure
the very first water dam was used to power a SINGLE light bulb. how is it now?
Solar panels might be cheap but 1) for cost/per unit of energy produced is no advantage as KA24DE said 2) almost all commercially available PC panels have an efficiency of 15 to 20% anyway. Is it worth the extra cost when we can work on other sources of energy? 3) most of the tropical countries that can harvest solar energy are way too disorganised to push for such an endeavour. Seeing as they are still industrialising, solar energy is not a constant/reliable enough source
I can ask a favour of everybody who’s participating in this discussion, that they attempt to define the timeframe in which they’re considering whether something is worth pursuing? In reference to what I said earlier, if you sorted all this out there wouldn’t be nearly as much wasted crosstalk: otherwise we’d just be switching between the nebulous optimism of the far future, and the skeptical pessimism of the immediate challenges. That’s how every one of these conversations go and it’s not… that helpful.
yeah the revolution i was talking about? it’s not short term of course. more like in the period of 50 years or more.
but in the next 1-2 decade? yeah please, by all means work on our current power sources to be better, while we wait for better stuff to get developed as well
The horse is not a developable tech. You cannot make it eat less, go further and faster and shit less. Fossil fuel infastructure is. The car is. Alternative energy is.
uh… selective breeding for stronger horse???
although it does have it’s limit. just like we’re somewhat hitting the limit with our ICE
Good point indeed.
That said… technology develops at a drastically different rate for different tech, and at different times.
Internal combustion engine outputs doubled over the course of world war 2. Computer technology progresses at a rate that is incomparable to anything but that short period of time for ICEs.
We need a 3rd world war if we want technology to progress at a meaningful rate, and I’m not joking.
As for horses… I feel the next step is genetically engineered horses. We’re at our limits on traditional horse technology. Our horses are already powerful enough to break their own bones. That has happened at a disturbingly common rate for race horses. We need 6 legged horses for a better transfer of energy, and improved traction. That will also reduce the strain on each leg, preventing broken bones. The downsides will be greater stupidity, since they require more brain-power for the coordination of their new limbs, and unfortunately, likely a greater birth mortality rate.
Oh, and a regular car these days costs 41 us cents to drive a mile; all maintenance taken into account. A horse costs $2.04 usd to “drive” the same mile… so I’m not sure the GMH will be a profitable endeavor.
I’m a big fan of horses and all but that’s really scraping the barrel 
Part of our problem is that we don’t have sufficient incentive to move on from oil as a whole. ‘Peak oil’ was shown to be a miscalculation. Many other countries haven’t even made it through the industrialisation stage yet and they’re planning to do so. There’s a lack of consensus from key players on the quantity of tangible effects of our reliance on fossil fuel burning, and when it comes to a status quo of antagonistic competition, we’ll be very much stuck, as I said earlier, unless:
You’re probably right, but I’m not going to bring US politics into this thread 
Shit, I probably should start planning that nuclear bunker…
please send invites around
NSFLife
DRUMPF is winning
shhhhhhhhhhhhhh don’t start that here 
Can i pipe in about solar. I rely on solar power at home as i am not conected to the power grid. Now my setup is roughly 10-15k plus another 5k for each battery (i have 2).
My setup takes 3-4hrs to charge (regardless of cloud cover) and so long as i do not use the microwave it lasts about 48hrs. Before solar i had/have a 2cylinder diesel engine from the 50’s powering a generator feeding into the house but no way to store power. Modern solar in Australia is the answer for us to get away from coal and now that the major electric companies are making money from solar panels on houses Aus wide it should hopefully only increase. Everything from windmills to water pumps to the workshops here at Mt Stanley are solar powered these days.
go solar!
What happens when you do use the microwave?
It lasts about 2mins. Microwave and kitchen electrics is not our friend and is why i still have the deisel generator.