For the unlimited class it would not matter. And if you can provide me precise numbers as to what safety “costs” extra the cost limit can be increased by that number.
But mainly that’s why I resist magic numbers. If you choose one the next guy will ask why you did not choose another. On monday you will think 40 is good, then on friday you wonder why you did not use 30. Also, once people will have to increase their safety from 44.7 to 50.0, they will think this is stupid.
A simpler solution would be to require the most advanced safety in the car, leave quality at 0 or higher and nothing more. How about that?[/quote]
I think your 50 Engine reliability, 50 Average reliability and Advanced safety (0 slider) are an elegant solution to rule making. When you think about implementing classes I’d suggest a power to weight ratio basis so that player choice is maximised. Otherwise I’d suggest roleplay themed classes like production, production-improved and unlimited so that people with car companies can use your competition to further their own roleplay experiences.
As to “roleplay themed classes” you sure know what is needed so that people could fit in their cars? Because frankly I dont follow the game enough to know what people would need. It seems a bit difficult right now with various engine sizes.
As it is now I see Avus as a good way to learn to maximize performance and minimize cost. I later put back some of my best engines to 0 quality or less and got fantastic race engines/cars for practically no cost. Heavy undersquare “race type” engines of course, but they have a huge price/performance potential. Weight seems less of an issue than I believed.
My absolute favorite Is currently a 500hp turbo 1.5L that does over 330 km/h, with cooling, for 8000$ (car tiny run). It has basically sucked out all cost out of the engine, which runs at 0 quality throughout, except turbo.
[quote=“BurningBridges”]“power to weight ratio basis”
Could you explain a bit more?[/quote]
What I mean is having a number of classes separated by differences in power to weight ratios. For example having a class set at 10Kg per Kw and another set at 5Kg per Kw and keep the open class for the glory hounds
You can maximise this effect by adding a cylinder count restriction to make things more interesting such as the 10:1 ratio being limited to 4’s and 6’s and the 5:1 ratio being limited to 6’s, 8’s and 12’s…
I was just spit-balling here, there are many ways to justify class restrictions and allowing for an optional roleplay element may have attracted more entrants than just a generic calculation competition. It’s totally up to you how detailed you want to go but I just thought you’d appreciate some left-field ideas as well as the usual suspects,
I agree. This competition was really challenging to build a viable competitor (and my car is still most likely a loser, ) and thanks again for hosting it.
Thanks a lot, although I think my first reaction to the first suggestion is negative. Outright limiting power to weight is not in the spirit of this race, especially as cars are already approaching 1hp/kg. I dont like limiting cylinders, compression or any of that either. The only thing that I would like to change is that for example a V12 will jump up in price disproportionately which is a problem within the cost limit.
But I’ll sure think about it! And perhaps there are other ways to enforce 2 different power to weight classes than by explicit thresholds.
So the 340 mark is a bit too low to be competitive in the C50 class if I understood the discussions so far? even if NA?
And when you say suficcient cooling, do you mean required cooling or just enough that it doesn’t say insufficient cooling in the overview tab
yeah… i still haven’t be able to achieved more than 330km/h with any body for the c50 class so when someone said 360… nope, i think im gonna skip the c50 class altogether
340 is not bad at all, in this years field I expect that it would give you a good mid field finish, and more if participation stays low.
But perhaps there is a misunderstanding, the “competitiveness” differs wildly between cars that are just “good” and a few who are running close to an unknown optimum. What that optimum is I will not say in advance, that is for the competition to find out. But 340 is 20km/h under the maximal performance of the 1000c cars, do you think a car with 20% more horsepower less goes that much slower, just because it has no Porsche body?
Please look again at Rules R2 and R3.
Car and engine reliability >= 50.0 implies the Overview tab must be working (“car has insufficient cooling to run” must go away) and reliability is > 50, engine reliability must also be 50 or higher)
Yes, 330 is mid field, but that problem will not go away if you go to the C60, unless you do something different / have found a better chassis for that class.
Just wanted to make sure so I didn’t break any of the rules. Final question regarding total time calculation: Will you be using times from sector 2 and sector 3 to calculate flying laps or using the track time from standing? From how I understand the rules you wil be using standing lap times, but if not I will focus on improving time in sector 2 and 3 and ignore sector 1.
No this talk about sectors was in respect to another track, the Dessau LSR, which originated from some ideas in this thread. Sorry if that confused you.
For the AVUS dont concentrate on any sector times, only lap times and fuel consumption.
This is a 1000 km race and cars will need refueling pit stops. I explained previously how pit stop time is calculated (basically: total pit time = number of pit stops x 2:00 min)
The calculation of your total race time over 1000km is: lap time x 121 laps + plus total pit stop time. Cars will be classified according to total time.
I received no entries in the last days. So I will probably clock a bunch of my own cars on saturday, so I can see what was possible on the track. Then I’ll finish the official results on sunday.
Received cars from olebolesparabol and MaamVastra.
Also a reminder about mods. Please dont use modded fixtures you got from the Steam workshop. Even though I installed Steam the much praised workshop functionality is not working (I subscribed to the mods but it does not download anything). That means I not only lost my key for the standalone but it has achieved nothing. Steam is exactly what I knew it would be. A huge unnecessary something that does things on my computer without explanation. With a simple download link to the mods this could be fixed in 2 minutes but now I need to fix a system that I never needed in the first place. In the long term Steam will have to go from my computer and since this has taken away my standalone key, Automation will have to go too.
[quote=“BurningBridges”]Received cars from olebolesparabol and MaamVastra.
Also a reminder about mods. Please dont use modded fixtures you got from the Steam workshop. Even though I installed Steam the much praised workshop functionality is not working (I subscribed to the mods but it does not download anything). That means I not only lost my key for the standalone but it has achieved nothing. Steam is exactly what I knew it would be. A huge unnecessary something that does things on my computer without explanation. With a simple download link to the mods this could be fixed in 2 minutes but now I need to fix a system that I never needed in the first place. In the long term Steam will have to go from my computer and since this has taken away my standalone key, Automation will have to go too.[/quote]
This might seem silly but are mods enabled in the options menu that pops up before the game starts?
Thanks, but it’s not important. I am not going to spend time fixing Steam for the reasons stated above.
It was just necessary to have the latest version of Automation so we get the same lap times. And most guys already submit cars without fixture mods anyway.
Still receiving entries, and will hopefully wrap this up some time tomorrow. The race results should come up some time on sunday, but as the calculations and stats are much more complex this time, I can make no definite promises.
Concerning Steam mods, well I was a bit p*d, but at least it achieved I get the correct lap times now. That was stupid in the first race, when I realized too late that there was quite a discrepancy. Now your and my times should be the same, although the game sometimes acts up in many ways. One way to f up everything is to export a car, change and rename the car and then reimport again. Also some people have made two exports at different times that partially overwrite each other, this could (but need not) influence the results. What you should really not do is send two different versions of the same car that you exported and then changed for two different entries, and rely on me somehow figuring out the exact order you created them. Instead, always create two different cars that dont overwrite each other.
Looking forward myself to see the results, as there have been several good entries with different chassis and some very interesting approaches, some of them even very amusing. Some people tried to maximize fuel efficieny, some others have tried something radical. So far there seems to be no “best” chassis either, which is good. Turbos and NAs are pretty close after pit stops, though turbos hold a minimal edge.
) and thanks again for hosting it. 
