Oh wow. If I entered (and I wanted to, just didn’t have the technical possibility) probably any premium car I’d come up with would be binned for some reasons I’d never think of. Like LFC pistons, 5 valves, high spacing (though more like 80, not 100)…
Also what’s wrong with long headers in an expensive car? I know they are supposedly sporty and not the most realistic, but the main reason to not use them is some severe restriction on overall cost or engineering time.
I think it’s more what’s wrong with long headers in this time period and class of vehicle. I presume fine on like older performance cars or like… NA Supercars [thinking Corvette here, not entirely sure] or such, where there is engine bay room? Modern cars and SUVs Crossovers generally don’t have as much space under the bonnet for engine nowadays due to more tech being placed there, and definitely the case here with these mostly rather premium vehicles needing stuff for luxuries. Not entirely certain however.
The increase in performance and economy would have been fairly obvious. Always double check, and retune.
When you open the hood, and there is basically another hood like this Audi. This is much worse on high end cars, but I have noticed even with the normal ones despite smaller engines in larger cars under hood space is at a premium. The transmission tunnels are just a tight (more leg room) so large convoluted headers are functionally impossible.
You forget about one thing - turbos. The whole system for that can be quite a bit larger than long headers.
Relative to long headers turbos are much smaller. Long headers have to twist to make equal lengths, so there is lots of dead space between the tubes. Even with an inter-cooler there is less piping, plus the pipes are throughout the engine bay, not just tucked along side the engine. I think the Chevy 2.7 turbo is on top of the motor too, I know the Cadillac V8tt is in the valley.
Hot Vee turbos should be a thing in the game…
AMG and BMW are big on them.
This layout also allows better temperature separation (better cooling results), faster spool up (shorter pipes), and most likely better efficiency.
Tubular exhaust manifolds also have a tendency to increase noise, using a short cast should have helped.
What about long headers in a sporty large wagon, or the sedan it’s based upon?
This has been brought up already and has been brought up time and time again in the CSR. Not every single post needs a damn reply, in particular about a subject that is completely irrelevant to the competition. Every single CSR thread gets derailed by this nonsense and it is completely off-topic. This is not the place to discuss turbos and exhausts systems. Please stop.
And no it doesn’t matter if you don’t have Discord. This is a forum, not a chatroom. If you want to chat, get Discord and you can talk about turbos and exhausts all day and all night in the #cartalk channel.
Unless people have something worthwhile to say or want to contribute to the competition in some form, can we please stop posting off-topic nonsense.
It was just another evening here at the Anderson household, where Alex and Lisa had just finished up eating up dinner. Lisa herself was watching some show on Netflix, while Alex finished up washing the dishes. He looked over to his wife, seeing her watching some show he was not interested in. Alex walked over and gave her a kiss, before grabbing his laptop and opened it up.
“Might as well do some car browsing around now.”
Going to his preferred online car review publication of choice, the first thing that popped up was:
@MGR_99 - VeryKool VeryFast 5000
Which he immediately ignored thinking that it was some sort of weird ad for some driving game for his iphone. And can you blame him, it looked ridiculous not to mention the ad.
[In all honesty the SUV itself, though pricey was actually pretty decent lol]
Scrolling pass the VeryKool VeryFast, the next SUV he saw was something brand new and Chinese:
@Yangx2 - Jinhe Luofu SRL 2-Row
“This one looks promising, the Chinese really have something going nowadays don’t they?”
He read a quick summary on the Jinhe:
Jinhe proves once again you should not underestimate the Chinese. The design is modern and what’s underneath is equally so, with an interior that punches up towards some of the best. As a performance SUV the 525HP V8 is a tad less responsive than we would like, but it is quiet and pushes the Jinhe to 60mph in just 4.5 seconds. Exceptional road going manners and handling makes this into one formidable package. Build quality is also very good, trending towards being one of the best in class.
Needless to say, the Jinhe was the first to be put onto Alex’s list.
Next vehicle that Alex went on was, perhaps something of a direct competitor to the Jinhe.
@On3CherryShake - Farox Meridia RF8
“That’s another looker of a SUV here, let’s see what its got.”
Clocking in a 0-60 under 4 seconds and a ¼ mile time in 12.3, you would think this was not a review for a SUV. But it is, and the Farox Merida is here to deliver all that and more. With arguably the best interior of this class, and great build quality to match, this is one SUV to beat.
Alex continued reading into the Farox, and though the DCT and differential choice on it was maybe more sporty than he would have expected, it was still something he had to put on his list.
“Okay, that was the front page, of course they’ll put some glowing reviews with nice pictures up front. Let’s see what else is around.”
@Nightwave - Kerberos MX851
[no image provided but I guess I didn’t say you had to post an ad]
“The hell is going on with those fenders? Yeah, no.” Alex moved on from the Kerberos, not interested in it even visually to look into it further.
[Aside from the use of the very outdated Luxury Satnav, the engineering of this really wasn’t bad. The issue was the body shaping on the side was… an attempt that was better not attempted. Rear was also quite tragic]
Scrolling further, a bright orange SUV caught his eye.
@Fayeding_Spray - Conquest Aoraki SAR
“Okay, well the bright orange paint definitely caught my eye but it is obnoxious, definitely won’t go for that color. But it is just the paint doing the eye catching too.”
Want something exotic and practical? Conquest got something for you, a naturally aspirated V10 SUV. It is about as crazy as it sounds - which speaking of, is on the loud side, so if you like the sound of V10 on your commute, this is the one for you
Alex was definitely intrigued, but he was here to get a more practical vehicle and this might have been a bit too much. Plus it seemed like much of the appeal was centered around the V10 rather than outright performance or comfort or… anything else really that has it compete with the first two he added. So the Conquest was discarded.
Next vehicle Alex clicked on was something a little different.
“Let’s see what a wagon can do actually.”
@HybridTronny - Atera Warusawa EX4
“Hmm… doesn’t look like the top of the line model to me, though it does look decent.”
A quick glance at the spec sheet and the review however, revealed a laggy turbo V6, along with performance that trailed behind the SUVs he had just seen. It had good MPG though, but that’s not exactly what he was looking for so he went on to look at something else.
@66mazda - Kaizen SCE48 tra AWD
“Oh, one of those offroad wagons, let’s see what this can do.”
Kaizen seemed to have had a bit of a mixup here when they greenlit this. On the exterior, you see a wagon, with trim to withstand the elements. Mechanically however, its a performance wagon. 480HP, dual clutch transmission, even a suspension that’s not particularly tuned for the offroad. We would like to see what Kaizen can do if they went one way or the other because underneath strange vehicle is a comfortable and quick performance wagon.
“Honestly its tempting… maybe if they made a different, performance trim of this I would go for it.”
For now however, he discarded the Kaizen and went back to looking at performance SUVs.
@Cheeseman - Evgenis Cerberus ES V8
“Hmm… I could go for this, let’s see what its got.”
The Evgenis is what you would want for something that could do it all. Its engine is very quiet, and as a cruiser, it will give you a very comfortable ride. That’s not to understate the performance either, it leads the class in road holding gs, while getting 4.4s to 60. Fit and finish however, leaves a bit to be desired.
“Seems good enough to take a look at.” Alex added the Evgenis to his list.
@J35_Power - Hibou Royaume GT
Alex clicked onto the Hibou’s page, and found a “long term review” of the SUV. He thought it looked decent, but being a SUV out for four years now he found the issues the current model had.
While the Hibou has good potential, certain we are still awaiting for a refreshed model to fix existing issues such as the engine tune and the instability at high speeds. Perhaps also better fit and finish as well would help.
[This SUV legitimately is very good, just 2 I suppose beginner tuning issues that keep me from moving it further]
“Well, that’s too bad, don’t think I’ll wait on them to improve it.” Alex moved on from the Hibou, and onto the next SUV.
@Endfinity - KMV Advisor Touring-10
“Hmm… that might be a bit big for me. Might be decent power wise?”
Looking at the power specs, the 530hp and 638 lb-ft of torque certainly meant it had a good bit of go, getting a 0-60 of 4.8 seconds. However it was readily apparent that it wasn’t a performance SUV, but one simply with a lot of power and straight line speed.
[Also I’m not a fan of the clear windows this time around, it makes this bulky body look even more like a bus than usual]
@Boiled_Steak - Novak Atlantico Grifone Edition
“Now that’s another looker.” Alex nodded, then looking through the review.
A well balanced machine with very good ride quality. Though the interior isn’t as high quality as some others, sitting and riding in it you wouldn’t find a difference. That follows into the handling of the Novak, which is certainly impressive. Fit and finish could use a bit of work, but this rather handsome SUV also undercuts the price of its competitors by a fair margin.
“Yeah, I’ll keep that on my list.”
Next one that Alex clicked on, he was surprised it was in production already.
@Lazar - EFI Takano SR
“Now that’s fancy, those lights are sleek.”
With over 600hp on tap, the EFI Takano puts the sport in sport utility vehicle. That of course, comes at the cost of a bit of ride quality with stiffer suspension than most in its class, but if what you’re looking for is a SUV with the appeal of a sports car inside and out, this is one to take.
“Hmm… why not I’ll put that on the list for now.”
@abg7 - GEC GX8 4.0
“Not the most interesting exterior, especially with what came right before.”
Looking more into it, it was much like the KMV from earlier, though this time with even less straight line performance. He had to admit though, it looked like a good SUV… for a retiree who just wanted comfort and an infotainment that ‘just works’, as he noted from the Sat Nav system and CD changers.
Looking at his list and the time, Alex figured that it was enough for today, and took a break from car searching.
Just a quick summary, people who passed in this round are:
@Yangx2
@On3CherryShake
@Cheeseman
@Boiled_Steak
@Lazar
Good read as always, keep it up!
Fair enough. Too much head (comfort) and not enough heart (sportiness). Even with a proper infotainment system it wouldn’t have passed muster at any price.
But at least I didn’t fall at the first hurdle (read: instabin) for the sixth time in a row.
Honestly it was close to making it to the finals by being a good statistical outlier, despite its performance deficit. I guess that will be shown after the finals.
Yeah, that’s fair on the styling. For the record that was my 3rd try, and I submitted it because I was running out of ways to try and get the body to do what I want.
well it makes sense now why my car is quite noisy, and also just found out that long tubular exhaust are usually aftermarket, at least in my country, so yeah, tubular exhaust is not that realistic after all
Did you forgot my entry?
They aren’t all done yet.
I had 2 versions of mine, a V10 NA, and a V8TT. Tried to turbo the V10 and got massive intake and exhaust restrictions. The V10 also ran the (apparently) dreaded headers. Not the race long, but I think they are called tubular. Noise on both engines was just under 30. On the V10 I had baffle->reverse and the V8 got through->reverse since the turbos quiet it some. Finally the fuel economy of the V8 won out (20 instead of 16), but it looks like I dodged 2 bullets with that one. The perform almost the same, but the V10 sounds better in Beam IMO.
Another day, another continuation of Alex’s car search. First up this time…
@GassTiresandOil - Armor Motors XT8
“Uhhh how about no.” Alex quickly discarded the woody SUV.
[The strange choice to use wooden doors aside, putting a geared diff and a 430hp V8 does not make a performance SUV.]
@Mikonp7 - BürgerFahrzeug Wildschwein Sport USDM
“This one is a definite eye cleanser compared to the previous one.” Alex continued to read up about the BF…
Perhaps an interesting phenomenon that BürgerFahrzeug continues to offer this to the states. It is wildly quicky, featuring a 5l v10. Perhaps that’s its appeal, but in the performance SUV market now its 336hp is wildly outclassed and despite everything this compact SUV can do for you, its practicality is offset by the fact it uses a v10. If you’re a fan of quirks and strange features you will like this, but as a modern performance SUV we cannot recommend this.
“Huh, that’s a weird one. Actually a bit small too, going to have to go with no on this as well.” Alex discarded the Wildschwein.
@ZSCHMEEZ - Albatross Pomona S
“‘Ultimate performance wagon’ it says. Doesn’t particularly look that… rear is decent I guess.”
The Albatross Pomona advertises itself as a performance wagon, but a better term for it is a sleeper. With 460 hp and a 0-60 of 4.1 seconds, it is certainly quick. However, that performance comes at a cost of its road going manners. The 6 speed dct is not the best around town, even while providing a very good 32 mpg average.
“Hmmm, yeah, I think the wagon offerings just aren’t doing it for me.” Alex discarded the Albatross.
@EnCR - Avantii Fortelle
“This looks… awfully unexciting.” Alex summarized. Unfortunately the (un)excitement doesn’t end there.
With the 460hp and dual clutch transmission and geared differential, its seems that Avantii had all the intentions of making a performance SUV here. The unfortunate choice of cheap tires here however means you would be better off not trying to corner hard, and they do not provide better ones from the factory. Its infotainment additionally is woefully outdated.
“Yeah, sounds like its not worth it.” Alex discarded the Avantii.
@S-cop - Shuriken Surveyer GXE Redline
“This thing looks good! Let’s see what’s going on with it.”
The GXE Redline is… an attempt at entering the performance SUV market. It has all the bells and whistles, but its evident that they rather you replace all the performance parts and go offroading instead. The ladder frame and solid axle makes the ride quality far behind the competition, not speaking of the handling that is held up only by the sport compound tires. If you’re a fan of its looks however, the Surverer is one solid piece of machinery.
“Hmm… not what I’m looking for.” Alex discarded the Shuriken.
@NamedByAFish - TMR Crusader SP2-V10PL5
“Hmm… the looks are… that certainly is a SUV.” Alex noted. The internals however…
[This probably should have been instabinned for the sports interior and way under powered 6l v10, but I guess its here now. Honestly aside from the engine tuning, overall brake tuning and interior choice however it wasn’t too bad]
Needless to say it was discarded.
@Goblin95 - GMBK Cambria
“I do rather like how this looks. Let’s see what it can do.”
Unlike the majority of the performance SUV lineup, GMBK has opted to keep the capacity to carry seven people -in a rather comfortable way - along. Rather that is a boon for you or not, it certainly does not hurt the Cambria’s performance, as its 600hp V8 shoves it along. That V8 however, could use some work as it is rather laggy with its turbos.
“I’ll take a bit more research on the engine, but I’ll put it on the list for now.”
@CriticalSet9849 - Morton Ceylon Turbo
“This one looks quite well too.” Alex continued on.
Morton comes in with the new Ceylon Turbo and its mostly good words about this SUV. It is very well sorted, providing a very smooth ride along with a stable and predictable steering. The 5.3l turbo V8 is arguably one of the best in the class, at 590 HP that gives both a very quiet ride and very quick ride - going to 0-60 in just 4.4 seconds. The only nitpick really is the 6 speed automatic - dated compared to its competitors 7 and even 8 speeds.
“Sounds solid enough, I’ll put it on the list.”
@Vouge - Forea Asper GTS
“Does the paint look a little faded? Eh, might be my eyes.”
The Forea Asper provides a lower cost alternative to punch into the performance SUV market - and that’s not to say its bad. Perhaps it doesn’t reach the ridiculous acceleration that some of the market provides at this point, but it still has exceptional road going manners and handling.
Seeing little downsides to the Forea, Alex put it on his list as well.
@Ryan93 & @CorsicaUnknown - Obey Rocoto
“Ohhh, I’ve heard of this one. Honestly looks good in the pictures.”
Obey Rocoto. We’ve seen this around for a few years now and it remains to be as solid as ever. There’s a reason why you see these around the rich neighborhoods and that’s due to just how nice it is to ride in, while providing just enough oomph to leave your average peasant in the dust. It is however, still a rather pricey package.
Though it is on the higher end of the price spectrum, Alex saw no major reason to cut it out at this time.
@mcp928 & @mat1476 - Brigid Artemis
“This is one is quite good as well - maybe a tad less aggressive however.”
The Brigid Artemis looks good. And on paper, it seems good as well. However, it does seem that they had not fully invested in the future just yet, with a slightly outdated 6 speed and safety features - despite achieving a very respectable safety score. Perhaps might be a good idea to wait for Brigid to update the SUV before going in for this package.
“Shame, and I’m not really interested in waiting.” Alex discarded the Brigid Artemis.
@MasterDoggo - Olsson 6455 ORKAN
“That’s looking real sharp. I like it.”
The Olsson 6455 ORKAN aims to take the performance SUV market by storm. Has it achieve that? Well, its definitely a contender, with its nicely responsive V8 and DCT that propels it to 60 in 4.2 seconds. That being said, its fine doing could be improved, as its roadholding grip is a little lower than expected.
“Hmm… Well, I do like how it looks…” Alex tentatively put the Olsson on his list. Seeing as he had plenty of solid options already, he decided to look at just one more SUV.
@Titleguy1 - Rigore Seneca MT-R
“Wow, this thing looks good, I could see myself getting this.” Alex nodded.
The Rigore Seneca MT-R, it will definitely sell. Its compact SUV size means that the 449 HP 3.2l flat 6 can keep it up with SUVs a solid 100 horses more, and even beat them on the track. But that’s not exactly why you buy a SUV and there is one major issue with it: its engine. While it may have been solid in its hayday, it simply is not the most reliable unit. Which is a shame, as it is well tuned, put perhaps pushed a bit too far.
“Ah, that’s a shame. Looks really good but I think I would prefer not dealing with engine issues.”
In the end, there was just 10 entries left…
@Yangx2
@On3CherryShake
@Cheeseman
@Boiled_Steak
@Lazar
@Goblin95
@CriticalSet9849
@Vouge
@Ryan93 & @CorsicaUnknown
@MasterDoggo
Stay tuned for the final round!
