FITE ME Part 3: Modern Hypercar (postponed due to UE4 changes. RERUN PENDING)

[Riley]

A few questions,
One thing I want to ask about, ET.
How realistic are we aiming for, obviously 300ET is high but acheivable to build, 700 is not. Are we going CSR levels of engineering? Or is it much more laid back, are you going to accept quality “spam” in certain areas (like top end, +10).

Another thing is when the beam round happens, those of us that are still in, do we have a time period to make our cars suitable for that or is it like just how it is. Thanks Strop, I’m looking forward to this.

[ElMenduko]

Some things worth considering that came up when I was making a couple of very rough early prototypes

Most importantly:

1) How you would consider Automation values, if at all, and the differences with BeamNG

Mostly for things that would/could make sense in such a type of car but don’t translate to BeamNG (active suspension, ground effect undertray, active wings, bypass valve, etc.). If we outright omit those we will get a lighter and cheaper car with less PU and ET, but the challenge isn’t about making just an engine on 4 wheels, is it?

2) Telling how much is an hypercar, and when it starts becoming an outright track car or a race car

If we’re talking about a car with maximum weight savings with no interior whatsoever other than 2 sports seats and few light interior panels I’d see that as more of a track car. If you tell me “hypercar” without further description I understand something on the other end of the spectrum: it has a luxurious enough interior to match the price, and that is of course much heavier. And of course there are all the ones that fall inbetween

Thing is, the cars on opposite ends of the spectrum are going to be very different things. A car with sport interior no entertainment compared to sport/luxury interior with luxury infotainment, for example, are going to have big differences in performance, weight, (and cost).

Since the extremes are so far apart I think you might need to constrain and clear this up a little bit to end more with the type of car you’re aiming for, and aim for cars that are comparable and not completely different things.

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And some less important stuff:

3) Aero differences and top speed discrepancies

Related to 1). For example, an experiment I was making could very easily smash the 300km/h barrier (and was even limited by gearing before adding aero) in Automation. However after testing a bit in BeamNG it can’t reach 300km/h on an endless straight due to having so much drag in there (so would it stop counting as hypercar?).

Correct me if I’m wrong, but IRL performance cars have been using ground effect to produce a significant amount of downforce because it generates less drag than exclusively using huge wings for that, right? Since we don’t have that in BeamNG, we have to emulate with wings (even if hidden), but from what I’ve seen all cars end up with significantly more drag.

[strop]

@Sky-High

How realistic are we aiming for, obviously 300ET is high but acheivable to build, 700 is not. Are we going CSR levels of engineering? Or is it much more laid back, are you going to accept quality “spam” in certain areas (like top end, +10).

I’m going to bundle this with a question from the Man of Crayons:

@ElMenduko

Since the extremes are so far apart I think you might need to constrain and clear this up a little bit to end more with the type of car you’re aiming for, and aim for cars that are comparable and not completely different things.

I know what you’re getting at. But since I’m allergic to using luxury myself, maybe I should have named this “the insane performance” challenge. But actually no, it still remains a “hypercar” challenge though I am encouraging a wide range of approaches. If you go through all my other challenges including CSR rounds, you’ll find I have ways and means of making it work.

In this case, fear not. There are two main measures: 1) I’ll be placing your car on a 3 way scale of comfort vs performance vs cost 2) this will form (depending on entry numbers) small clusters which fall into a category and it will be within your similar competitors that you will be judged i.e. “how well did this car articulate its apparent purpose compared to the rest of the similar market”. For example if I see a 1000ET car with absolutely mad performance, I can’t directly compare it to the 1000ET car with less mad performance but far plushier fittings but I wouldn’t necessarily say one was more favourable than the other. But if I saw a car achieve either of the other cars’ stats and it only had 500ET well that one is clearly superior.

Also in the case of total costs and ET, just… remember that there are diminishing returns with each tech point. Can’t tell you exact values now as it depends on what people come up with but I won’t reject something just because it’s 1000ET. It will just have to be utterly superlative.

As Killrob says, in these kind of cars he would expect certain aspects to be absolutely tech spammed, like +15 on aero for something that is supposed to hit 300mph would make perfect sense.

@ElMenduko

1. How you would consider Automation values, if at all, and the differences with BeamNG
   Mostly for things that would/could make sense in such a type of car but don’t translate to BeamNG (active suspension, ground effect undertray, active wings, bypass valve, etc.). If we outright omit those we will get a lighter and cheaper car with less PU and ET, but the challenge isn’t about making just an engine on 4 wheels, is it?

Yeah so for everyone else too in case it isn’t clear enough:

Once the round is open, build your car for testing in Automation first and foremost. Don’t even worry about how this or that thing will not work in Beam. You can do your own testing with your own mule but when it comes to sending to me I will judge the Automation car first.

The Beam conversion will come later. So I don’t even care if you use a million spoilers and lips and have a downforce undertray and active sports suspension system. Those are the things you use, that’s cool, that’s all important in the Automation car.

[nialloftara]

*Whoops, this was not mean as a reply to you boosted, sorry tapped the wrong button on moblie.

Hmm, gone through 3 different engine approaches so far, the 7liter twin turbo v8 was good, it certainly delivered the proper 4 digit horsepower that strop would enjoy and still returned excellent mpg that a midsized sedan wouldn’t scoff at even with only a third the power, but it just didn’t speak to me.
The 10liter 50valve NA V10 also delivered the 4 digit horsepower but with more soul than the twin turbos, if 10 less mpg.
But the current 7.2 liter 40 valve w/ variable lift V10 with a 10,000rpm redline seems to strike the right balance of soul, performance, economy, and exoticness, even with only 900hp. It also has the advantage of sounding like a formula car once you get on the hot cam and the active exhaust bypasses the muffler.

[strop]

I think this highlights an important point: Don’t feel that you have to go for absolute maximum power if you can justify your choices through some other performance-enthusiast oriented criteria like “soul” or “the sound” or “throttle responsiveness” and if it is in line with the character of your car. Also it helps for me to come to an understanding of the character of the car you are building: do you want me to drive something that is super fine control and responds to my every touch and feels super light and direct, something that is a ballistic missile on steroids that will make me shit my pants every time I hit the gas, or something that feels really stable and I can push it to its limits without fear of excessive recrimination? There are pros to all of them and my comments will also be about how this approach fits together or clashes.

[BoostandEthanol]

I know it’s early as hell for this, but might as well share my efforts so far. Don’t think it’s quite up to scratch yet, a lot of messy bits of design, but hopefully this is on the right track!

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Oh, and on another note, I know you said to only setup your car for Automation since Beam stuff will be handled at a later date for the cars that get through, but does that include the setup of the car (suspension, brakes, etc) or only things that only factor in Automation (Undertrays, active aero, etc)?

[nialloftara]

Here is the banshee as it sits right now, just updated the game and it seems to have transferred fine so yay better graphics, but I had a small heartattack when i saw that 1.4gig update steam started, still not satisfied with the look or performance, but it’s a work in progress.

[strop]

@BoostandEthanol

I know you said to only setup your car for Automation since Beam stuff will be handled at a later date for the cars that get through, but does that include the setup of the car (suspension, brakes, etc) or only things that only factor in Automation (Undertrays, active aero, etc)?

Yeah so I am aware that the stats and the driving experience don’t perfectly match up. Let’s just say I’m going to match cornering g and top speed by fiddling with the aero. Brake balance is shall we say negotiable. I will try not to alter suspension tuning and that’s probably going to be the crapshoot. At the least ride height may need altering because some bodies are really funny on that count. Same with drivetrain and transmission but if there is a game breaking issue everything is up for negotiation.

[Riley]

Interesting

@strop

I’m going to match cornering g and top speed by fiddling

So… How much of the beam round is actually on us? Do we get more points if you don’t have to fiddle as much? How much are we allowed to change? Say I went with DCT for comfort, but I actually put in seq for beam, is that allowed?

I know I’m asking questions about a round that I might not even get into that would be awkward but it’s nice to know everything before going into a challenge blind.

[strop]

@Sky-High

How much of the beam round is actually on us? Do we get more points if you don’t have to fiddle as much?

Nope. I don’t expect to put any of that on you unless you have intimate knowledge of exactly how all the bodies export to Beam. I’m going to do my best to convert the car faithfully first and then it will become a matter of tweaking to realise the best the car can be. Chances are, that it’ll end up being fully converted anyway (unless it is entirely possible).

Just completely expunge the idea of “winning the Beam component” as a direct correlation to how much cred you earn from this. By nature of the exporter itself a degree of luck will be involved.

@Sky-High

Say I went with DCT for comfort, but I actually put in seq for beam, is that allowed?

I feel like I’m answering multiple iterations of the same question over and over again so once again the answer is: No.

And especially considering the way I will treat DCT you won’t need to.

[Watermelon3878]

I’ve been working on prototypes (a lot of N/A) and I realized that race headers would be very helpful, but you’ve never addressed race parts in this thread. Since they’re very limited-production cars, would this be acceptable?

[strop]

Yes, but I will take note of the reliability issues. Obviously maintenance costs in these cars was always going to be astronomical but given some hypercars focus on being track cars you can daily it may have ramifications depending on your approach. Choose wisely.

note: even my 500km/h hypercar just has a performance filter because it’s a production for road model, just saying

[Watermelon3878]

I was mostly thinking race headers, which don’t involve reliability but uuughhh production units

[nialloftara]

But a lot of these IRL would be deliberately hand made, or mostly hand made, so artistic touches like intricate exhaust manifolds would be in keeping, especially if you added some translucent panels to show them off. Production units mostly don’t matter as long as your car offers performance or comfort to justify the expense.

[strop]

Oh lol just woke up then i thought you said filter not header

Yeah race headers are fine as Niall said. Just don’t try to claim that your hypercar is mass produced then i guess lol

[TheAlmightyTwingo]

This is probably the car that I poured most effort in of all the cars that I made. This is the 2019 Meijer LM-1 (chassis #2 Aero Road). This is, as the chassis name suggests, a road-legal high downforce model. The interior is more luxerious than the average sportscar but it’s not made of whale penis leather. The car has ~1000hp and, with this package, should be able to reach 390 km/h. It’s supposed to be grippy but automation doesn’t like me increasing downforce…

Lights explaination

The orange arrows indicate how the sequental indicator work:

[nialloftara]

More tinkering was done, it’s too hardcore for what I want the Banshee to end up being

but holy shit is this a fast car for under $300,000 right now.

but holy shit is this a fast car for under $300,000 right now.

[strop]

News flash

Turns out that someone I know (not saying whom yet) has worked out how to make active aero with animated flaps and functional airbrakes work. I am hoping to learn this off them in the near future.

Suffice to say this means two things:

1. active aero will now be simulated in the Beam model (albeit it will be probably be as rudimentary as Automation’s treatment)
2. if you want active aero you NEED to indicate where the wing/flaps are supposed to be by styling it into your Automation model.

Again this will only apply for the 5-8 cars that do make it to this stage.

[Riley]

I know who lol,
Anyway, is this “just” airbrakes and up and down rising spoiler? Or is this a DRS type thing too.

[Xepy]

I assume we’ll also use the active aero option in Automation? Mostly asking that since I don’t typically use it.

And also by indicate would it be one fixture per flappy active bit or a group of them? Since while I can add it to my design, one fixture might not be super clean in how it’s implemented.