Help us out: Engine Designer Revamp

General Chat
1

[size=120]Hey guys![/size]
Just wanted to give you a short update on what is going to get to you in the near future, and how you could
help us further improve the engine designer. :slight_smile:

[size=120]The next few weeks[/size]
Our next goal is to release V8 engines to those who have preordered the game. This will happen around end
of May already! After that you will have to wait less than a month to get to play 6-10 new smoking fresh V8
scenarios if you have preordered.

[size=120]The Engine Designer Revamp[/size]
Right after you lay your oily fingers on the V8 scenarios we jump into the fray and completely revamp the
engine designer core mechanics and iron out a lot of the flaws that are still in there. Among those are things
like a new system to calculate fuel economy, bigger bore and stroke ranges, engine part weights that scale
correctly with engine capacity instead with the arbitrary block size, etc.

And this is where we need you! What core engine designer mechanic would you like to see improved, and in
which way? We will seriously consider all posts in this thread, and the best ones will have a good chance of
being included if we deem they would be good for the game. Be concise, to the point, and proof read stuff.

Please copy and use the following format:

Issue description: (current state)
Possible solution: (what it should/could be like)
Important because: (why you think it is important to change)

**Issue description:** (current state) **Possible solution:** (what it should/could be like) **Important because:** (why you think it is important to change)

That is all :slight_smile: Tell us how we can improve, and the least we will do is listen well.
Cheers!
/Killrob

2

Yeah good to hear (:

i’ll keep watching out for those big roaring things :stuck_out_tongue:

goodluck with further aprovement :smiley:

3

Issue description: Block size
Possible solution: when creating a I4 you already have 3 fixed points of reference here for each component (eg a small I4 cast crank is 8KG. medium is 12KG and a large is 16KG), assuming that the weights are determined for the largest capacity for each block (eg. 8KG cast crank is needed for a 1379cc engine) you could easily figure the weights compared to the capacity. Ill draw it in paint to make it as clear as mud…
I have used a the crank but the idea could be used for ever component (including the block)

Weight of cranks.gif1152Ă—648 7.42 KB

Important because: Realism and options for creating different engines is greatly reduced by having it in its current form (you already know that) If you want a small engine you select a small block and drag the bore and stroke all they way to the top its going to be the same size as a 393cc engine anyway.

4

I think we’ve found a way to liniarly scale block size (visually too!) so this may all be moot :smiley:

5

Sounds good to me also the “visually too” sounds good too, that would mean a lot less art for you…

6

And i wasted all that time in paint too :blush: :laughing:

7

Nah, its already scaled in game (I only make one scale) so should be fiiine :slight_smile:

Not sure if we’ll make carbies liniarly scale though… that means carby flow scales with block size

8

One thing
VVT on 5 Valve heads. The Toyota 4AGE 20V had VVT.
This could allow for much more fuel efficient/powerful engines

A bit unrelated, but speaking of fuel efficiency, what does the economy stat of g/kwh mean?

Fuel mixture
An actual ratio should be given, such as 14.7 or 11.5, like you did with compression.
If you have a number for compression ratio instead of 0-100, the same should be for fuel mixture.

Other than that this is a great game! Can’t wait to make an AWD CRX with a V16 :laughing:

9

VVT on 5 valves is coming.

Fuel mixture can’t have a value as it would be changing all the time, under load at high rpm it might be 11:1 but at cruise it might be 18:1, the fuel mixture slider represents “On average, how rich is this engine tuned”

10

When you say “linearly scale block size” does that mean that we will not have to select small, medium, or large block and have a super short stroke (50mm) and super big bore (100mm) engine for high performance or long life applications?

Bore/Stroke limits
These should be raised, as quite a lot of larger engines have a bore of more than 100mm and a stroke of more than 100mm.
This would add more options for making engines, and would allow players to make engines with ridiculously big cylinders such as the 6.7 liter inline-six from a dodge ram or the enormous engines from 18-wheelers which are something like twelve liter inline sixes.

11

The bore for I4’s is limited to 100mm (it my change) but V8s and other engines will have the option to have a bigger bore. They have mentioned 12L V8s before

12

I think with this overhaul we will up the max bore and stroke of everything, but we need to introduce some severe vibration in things like 4.0L inline 4s

13

[quote=“Daffyflyer”]VVT on 5 valves is coming.

Fuel mixture can’t have a value as it would be changing all the time, under load at high rpm it might be 11:1 but at cruise it might be 18:1, the fuel mixture slider represents “On average, how rich is this engine tuned”[/quote]

Yeah, exactly. I find fuel mixture difficult to tune. The help window says: “A ratio of 14.7 parts of air to 1 part of fuel is… the ideal ratio…” How exactly can we make this ideal ratio with a slider from 0-100? It’s too complex to use in this way, unless the slider represents the amount of air:fuel, so 14-15 represents 14.7:1 air:fuel?

It doesn’t work this way though, does it?

14

Yeah, that might just need better explanation. The air fuel slider is about how the engine is tuned OVERALL, because as I know from tuning my car, its not like an engine just runs a paticular air fuel ratio all the time, when i’m on light throttle the MX5 will hit like 16:1, but under high load/full throttle more like 12:1.

15

This isn’t the most intelligent reply, but it makes up for it with some awesomeness.

Issue description: No fire out of the exhaust
Possible solution: Add fire out of the exhaust during backfire
Important because: Because FIRE!

:laughing:

16

Already got that one in mind, because of the same reasons you stated :laughing:

17

[quote=“autofrank”]

[quote=“Daffyflyer”]VVT on 5 valves is coming.

Fuel mixture can’t have a value as it would be changing all the time, under load at high rpm it might be 11:1 but at cruise it might be 18:1, the fuel mixture slider represents “On average, how rich is this engine tuned”[/quote]

Yeah, exactly. I find fuel mixture difficult to tune. The help window says: “A ratio of 14.7 parts of air to 1 part of fuel is… the ideal ratio…” How exactly can we make this ideal ratio with a slider from 0-100? It’s too complex to use in this way, unless the slider represents the amount of air:fuel, so 14-15 represents 14.7:1 air:fuel?

It doesn’t work this way though, does it?[/quote]

Hi everyone!

I too think the fuel mixture slider is confusing, but I guess “fixing” it would require more complex mixture tuning procedure than you have planned for this game. I would really love to see more realistic adjustments with many things, like cams and ignition timing (degrees anyone?) but if you are only going to make this game semi-realistic I guess my complaints won’t matter.

18

It would also be great if the external size of the engine was shown as the displacement changes are made. Having to keep going back to testing and running it to see a change when doing that schenario with limits on the size was annoying.

Adding in a slider for factor of safety. There are somethings that we cant choose that effect the reliability of an engine, like cylinder bore lining thickness, rocker strength, etc. And those can be a reliability vs lightness vs cheapness type thing.

19

I’ve noticed that when I am working on a pushrod engine and turn up the compression, one of the valves disappears into the piston head. :laughing:

20

A few humble suggestions here, things that bothered me after playing all the fantastic scenarios:

#1 : Dyno graphs: It seems the hp calculation is off. If calculated correctly the hp and torque will be equal at 5252 rpm… Which it is not. Since low end torque (should) have a big influence on economy and emissions, this is actually a major issue for the realism of the engine…

#2 : Flywheel wheight: “normal” wheight is ~18KG in I4 engines.

#3 : Its all in the heads - The heads should be given more options. Port size, port angle, valve size, chamber shape and even intake runners have a very high impact on an engine. Perhaps adding those up in a single line adjusterbar for simplisity maybee named “agressiveness” or something. Either way they are to important to disregard.

#4 : Ignition timing: Sorry, but Ive tuned 1 million engines, and not once had a max ignition timing of more than 36 degrees. Also options like old points, early age electronic, ECU controlled and even amplifiers, COP or dizzy ++. These are highly important for both cost, emissions and power.

#5 : Compression ratio: It seems to be very hard to gain power with high comp engines. Increasing cam duration should have an higher influence on RON when you have high compression engines. I would therefore suggest to implement 2 factors in camshafts, Duration and lift. Research shows that the lift (among many other factors) determines the power of the engine, while the duration tells at what RPM you get it (if nothing else change). But higher duration allows for more compression/ignition timing etc and can allow even higher power at the expence of economy ++. This becomes even more a factor in turbocharged engines. Dont forget though, higher lift will increase overlap.

#6: OHC seems to have an advantage over all other designes when it comes to power?

#7 : AF ratios: This should just be removed. Perhaps a cost for tuning effort could be used, but in general any carb will give poor fuel mixture at practicly all RPMs while a multipoint fuel injection gives great mixture at all RPMs.

Thats it for now. Great game though, cant wait to see it complete!