Journey of Ownership 3C - Bahnstormer 1978 [FINISHED]

Considering the 1972 P1800ES released with a solid axle and was reported to have ‘excellent’ ride quality, I would say that your soft-roader truck having IRS is a bit much for me. Yes, having a higher budget ceiling could mean you will get away with having an IRS, but in my mind it should’ve just had a much better quality solid axle, aka select coils and then put a shitton of chassis quality.

Numbers are fine, that was my attempt at converting the AMU currency to a tangible Deutsch Mark figure which I immediately dropped after writing your review.

Fair response, but it’s a practice we tend to avoid in automation for some reason. But I would’ve given that a pass if there was any clear indication on the final DM you sent me with the car file as to why you lowered it.

While I combine cars all the time… with all due respect, this is a bit much to imagine, even for me. You can’t expect me to just realize that it’s supposed to be a combo of all these and find it as a perfectly viable competitor against cars that didn’t stray too far away from conventional tech of the time.

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Ok, the GAZ is an exaggeration. Having said that, one inspiration was a well-publicized drive of a couple of these across Siberia in the late 50’s. By Soviet standards, they were proper road cars. I’m trying to find a link in English. Imagine that same idea done in a European luxury context 10-15 years later.

A better explanation might be: a luxury Euro take on a Grand Wagoneer. When that came out in 1963, IFS with 4wd was unheard-of, and I’m sure many comments were voiced along the lines of “who or what is this for? This will never sell.” Five years and a healthy budget hike later, adding IRS to the formula, and sticking it under a car for all the Car Reasons - ride, handling, looks, economy - seems hardly a stretch. Or making a Jensen FF slighly more affordable and giving it hydropneumatics.

The IRS was very deliberately chosen. Light Truck, though, was nearly a coin toss, and the thinking there was that the weight optimization slider is arbitrary, in practice there’s no hard limit to how overbuilt hardware can be made, and the Light Truck Monocoque basically does the same thing as the Heavy end on that slider and takes its effects further.

The (admittedly long-winded) letter in my advert explains the background and purpose of the whole thing. In short: reliabililty, not just mechanically but functionally, t.i. reliably getting to where you want to go no matter what crosses your path: bad weather, bad roads, gas shortages in desolate areas… A working name during prototyping was “Allsieger” - German* for “all-conqueror”. The intended buyer is one with somewhere difficult to get to, high standards for the quality of the journey, and the coin to pay for the highest assurance possible that they’ll get there and back, come what may. And who also needs/wants an all-around well-performing, practical car whose only real weakness is price.

Put in the final DM? I’ll do that next time, sure. It seemed enough to ask once, receive an answer, and also explain it in the advert.

Naw, that minor gripe aside, it’s all good. Fenrir was submitted knowing full well it’s unconventional for any buyer in any era, and expensive at that. While I stuck to proven 1968 tech and attempted period-correct styling, my purpose was to make an awesome car in its own right more than hyperfocusing on the brief. I expected Magda to go, “This is interesting, does the job great, does other stuff I don’t really need or want to pay that much for. Pass.” I was slightly surprised she gave it a try at all.

*Spricht hier jemand Deutsch? I’m an intermediate speaker, enough to come up with that name but not enough to know the meaning of its occurrence in a hymnal work by Mendelssohn. The possibility of some religious or other unintended meaning partly kept me from using it. Can anyone enlighten me here?

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I don’t want to harp on this, but just logically, if you have to write an essay directed specifically at the buyer to explain why your car makes sense, it probably doesn’t make sense.

and for what it’s worth, the IFS option for the Wagoneer was unpopular and quickly discontinued. At this point in time, if you were buying an offroader, it was because you needed the capability. The idea of a softroader is still a long way away. You can argue someone could have come up with it earlier, but then, understand that the host is fully in their right to say it doesn’t make sense in historical context.

Edit: while we’re on the subject, I just wanna share a photo of the Wagoneer’s IFS setup:

IMG_2921

It’s fascinating in its innovation given the Wagoneer’s intent to make a 4x4 more comfortable and usable, but by modern standards, very crude. A center jointed swing-arm setup, with the front differential unsprung. It was offered until ‘68 and sold in very low numbers compared to the standard leaf sprung solid axle.

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All good points, especially regarding historical soft-roaders. I didn’t know that detail about the IFS option. Though if you refer to the initial advert, Magda was approached as a consultant, and most of the essay was background, not a thesis.

Journey of Ownership 3-B:
A Brake From Convention


Finals, pt 2


[No Particular Order]

Turból Centurion @donutsnail

Not too far away from Durendal’s showroom was Turból’s place. The American brand with the Euro-esque name and a lineup of very nice, sporty cars. Apparently, they’ve made a Shooting Brake version of the well renowned Centurion, and Magda is very keen on having a look at it.

“Quite interesting, this Turból name. Wonder if it means anything?”, wondered Stefan.

“Pretty sure it’s just a gibberish name that managed to stay.”, Magda replied, having a little bit of insight on Turból’s naming.

“Ah well, at least it sounds cool,” Stefan said while Magda pulled up to the parking lot.

The Turból Centurion Shooting Brake was waiting for them next to a sharply dressed sales assistant. Magda’s immediate impression of the Centurion SB was that it struck her as bolder than the standard Centurion. Mostly because a pony/muscle car shooting brake is such a novel concept. The sedans/coupes are mostly turned into wagons and that’s about it. But the Centurion dressed as a shooting brake looks really nice, she thought.

“You can tell it’s not a bespoke shooting brake body, rather it’s based on a wagon. But instead of simply removing the rear doors, they actually went out of their way to shape and style the body to make it look like a proper shooting brake.” Magda said. “Looks quite striking, don’t you think?”

“Definitely, the window is shaped very uniquely. Adds to the coolness of the already cool Centurion.” Stefan replied. “Love the ducktail spoiler, by the way. I was expecting a roof spoiler, but the ducktail makes it look unique.”

“Love the hideaways too. The fascia just looks so good with the whole shooting brake aesthetic. And the decal around the front is a nice touch.” Magda said before she started approaching the car to hop in.

“Wow, this is properly spacious from the inside. I think we could get away with our kids and each of their pets with this much space!” Stefan said in awe.

“It is an American car after all… Say this is a decent interior for how much it costs.” Magda appreciates the interior she’s getting in the car. Leather, wood, cloth, suede is about the materials she expects in this price range. And the quad speaker 8 track player/radio is definitely much welcome as well.

“Well let’s not wait any further, let’s get going so we can get a feel of how the car drives,” said Magda as she started rolling off the lot.

The Centurion had a 4-speed manual, mated to its rather modest 3.5L OHC V8 engine. The 4th gear was definitely for overdrive purposes, Magda thought, as the gears were spaced out quite far away. But even with such long gears, the Centurion SB managed to reach 100 km/h in 7.6 seconds. The engine uses a combination of high-quality cast iron and forged parts. The carburetor setup is “adequate” considering it has 4 barrels and a single choke, and not obnoxiously loud for being an American V8. Manages to propel the car up to very respectable speeds very fast. Quite impressive for this honking chunk of steel.

Speaking of steel, there’s a metric fuckton of that in this car, Magda realized when she took a proper first turn. The steering was HEAVY to turn. It was very obvious that the car lacks any sort of power steering. While the unpowered rack and pinion steering felt good at low speeds and slight turns, she felt the heft of the car every time when taking a large turn.

Stefan saw Magda struggling a bit with the steering wheel, “Perhaps we should ask them for a power steering optioned car?”

“I mean it’s not as bad as it looks, I just need to get used to the heft. But yes, having power steering in a near 1.4-ton car would be very nice.” Magda kept going, “There’s other issues I’m noticing as well. The seats themselves are quite nice to sit in, and it’s very spacious with tons of storage. But it’s also a bit tightly sprung compared to the other cars. I’m assuming that’s to help with the handling of this massive car.”

“Yeah I can definitely feel the bumps on the road, possibly more than any other cars we’ve driven today.” Stefan agreed. “On the bright side, the reliability reports show excellent records, and the estimated upkeep isn’t too bad either. What it loses in fuel economy, makes up in very low service costs thanks to simple and well-built parts.”

“That’s about on par with Turból’s reputation, really. Also, I am enjoying driving this car from a ‘fun’ perspective. It seems to kick its tail quite playfully if I put the power down while turning. And dear god that engine revs above 7500 RPM. Sounds godly!” Magda’s eyes had lit up by this point.

“It’s an amazing driver’s car. Someone who doesn’t care too much about ride comfort or doesn’t mind going sideways on their way back from work, would find this car an amazing deal. Us though? I doubt we need this much focus on a sporty experience.” Stefan tried to keep Magda grounded.

“True… I think I’ve driven this enough for now. How about you take it for a spin?” Magda asked Stefan as she wanted to take notes.

Notes:

1/ Majority of the problems I have with this car are caused by two things. It’s big and heavy. And that’s an inherent trait of the car, nothing can be done about it. You get plenty of space inside the car, you get a massive chunk of rolling steel that’s very safe and secure. But unfortunately, that fucks with handling, economy, comfort and what not.

2/ Would’ve liked the car a tad bit more if the power steering was optioned in, but I’ll let that slide.

3/ Can’t really fault the engine anywhere, really meticulously engineered.

4/ I think the other main issue I have with how it’s set up is the fact that, in my mind, shooting brakes are wagons that are built like sportscars but tuned somewhat like wagons. This car is quite the opposite, it’s built like a wagon and tuned like a sports car. It’s not an inherently bad formula, and yes some shooting brakes ARE like that, it just didn’t work out for what I wanted.

5/ With the combo of progressive springs, a bit sounder insulation, wee bit looser suspension setup, powered rack and pinion, and maaaaybe luxury interior, this car would’ve genuinely snagged the victory. I genuinely love the looks, and if optioned as I stated above, this would’ve had a more balanced stat distribution instead of tanking comfort.

Waldersee Lancier 45TR by @Texaslav

Waldersee’s Showroom was next. Currently a hot topic in the community is their Lancier 45TR, apparently, it’s an attempt to bring pony cars to Europe. That’d be the second proper Pony Car Magda will be driving today after the Centurion. Magda is quite fond of Arlington, their parent company, so let’s see how this goes.

“Looking at the spec sheets, looks like they are using Arlington’s 4.5L V8… Scheiße! It’s the fastest car in our list, and it doesn’t even have the most amount of power,” Stefan exclaimed. He always knew that putting the power down efficiently with better wheels, differentials and gearing was more important than raw power, but seeing the Lancier be down on almost 100 horsepower and still be faster than the other ‘factory hot-rods’ was quite amusing for him.

“Well, they’re owned by a reputed brand from America. And from the success of their lineup, they clearly know their stuff.”

Pulling up closer to the Lancier revealed a bold and stately looking shooting brake with grilles as big as half the fascia. A very aggressive look, while not being too edgy, Magda thought. The Lancier was designed with very clean aesthetics in mind. It looked organized with its shapes and fixture placements. Magda appreciates clean looking designs, especially when more is achieved with less.

“Have you seen the rear window? It’s very stylish and unique looking,” Magda pointed out the window to Stefan. “I love everything about the rear end, honestly. The rear lights are angled, add a nice touch of character for the car.”

“I agree. And love the small but precise details around the car too. The side vents behind the rather massive doors, the vents by the hood bulge, the ‘4.5’ emblem… it’s all very nice detail.” Stefan appreciated the car as well.

Getting inside the Lancier revealed a very nice red leather interior, with matte finish plastic, wood, and suede. The interior was a small but still measurable step up from the last car they tested, the Centurion. Also, when hopping in, Magda noted that the suspension was on a more leisurely tune. “Should be a bit comfier to ride,” she thought.

As she turned the ignition keys, the 4.5L pushrod V8 roared to life. Keeping the theme of ‘not obnoxiously loud, but loud enough to provide enjoyment’, the Arlington V8 revved to a respectable 5900 RPM, and making boatloads of torque while doing so. “209 horsepower, and somehow faster than the highly strung Fenrir,” Stefan was still going on about the performance of the Waldersee.

“In fairness, the Fenrir had 4x4. Quite a lot of power is lost due to drivetrain inefficiency there. But still, credit goes where credit is due, the Lancier is genuinely quite fast even when it’s not the highest spec available. Color me impressed.” Magda replied.

Rolling off the parking lot, Magda realized that the Lancier also hasn’t been optioned with power steering. But it doesn’t feel nearly as hard as the Centurion, thanks to the Lancier being a smaller and lighter car. And it seems like Waldersee wanted to make sure that the car was drivable for everyone without having power steering, so weight saving measures like magnesium wheels were used.

Putting the power down when stepping on the pedal caused a tiny bit of wheelspin before the Lancier went off like a rocket. This was a proper fast car, and a huge chunk of that credit goes to the factory sports tires. Stopping the car wasn’t a concern either, the front wheels were equipped with vented disc brakes. This is a car that’s does not shy of showing its performance pedigree. And while all that was happening, the plastic cladding underneath the chassis proved to be quite useful as they dampened the outside noise to a significant degree.

“The ride feels like a definite step up from the Centurion. Probably because it has better springs, and the suspension isn’t as tightly sprung.” Magda said.

“I definitely prefer this a bit more over the Centurion. It seems almost as playful when kicking the tail but is faster and somehow rides better. And look at this, reports of the sedan version and early reports of the 45TR say that the car is pretty much bulletproof all around. Upkeep isn’t that bad either.” Stefan sounded excited.

“I didn’t think a pushrod V8 powered shooting brake would have better fuel economy than some smaller cars, that is actually amazing.” Magda exclaimed.

The car even had the environmental resistance package optioned in. For once, a car is not overpriced due to having this option because the manufacturers put effort into streamlining the process, and thus bringing the costs down.

Stefan took helms of driving it, which he quite enjoyed, while Magda took her notes as usual.

Notes:

Aite chief Imma be real, I can’t really fault this car. Most of the changes I’d make are entirely subjective. And one other thing I’d probably change is how it looks from the front. As in, the fascia feels a bit flat, and not the cool edgy stuff most other people have done. But again, that is entirely subjective.

The only reason I’m not knocking this car down due to not having powered steering is because 1.2tons is definitely manageable at this size, and also the cor. res. Steel because it has managed to pack so many things under a certain price threshold, that it might as well have that.

Hamfa Hengst 3200 by @Ch_Flash

“We’ve looked at 5 cars now, and we both seemed to like the Waldersee quite a lot. Are you sure you want to have a look at this last car?” Stefan asked Magda.

“Why would I ever turn down on trying out a new car?” Magda replied with a gleeful smile.

Approaching Hamfa’s showroom in her little Kaffee, Magda was feeling a bit tired. Quite a lot of work was done today. Soon they’ll sort out which car they want to buy and she’s pretty damn excited about it. She parked the car and approached the manager standing by the beautiful Hengst 3200.

It was a unique looking, sleek European car, with flowing lines that were about as natural as it gets. Magda was pretty set on the Waldersee until she saw this, and now she’s having second thoughts.

“Huh, this has a very nice-looking rear window design as well. And because of how low it sits; it looks very sleek and discrete.” Stefan said while admiring the Hamfa.

“The front looks so good with the popups down, and the emphasized middle grille looks excellent. The lines flow so well along the body shape… it’s all very beautiful” Magda joined Stefan.

Getting inside the Hamfa revealed an equally beautiful interior adorned with black leather, woodgrain, high quality piano black plastic and suede bits. Also, the 8-track player inside was from a very reputable European brand, and Magda knows their stuff doesn’t come for cheap.

“This is going to be the first V6 car we try out,” said Magda as she turned the ignition keys. “Oh, it’s very discrete with its exhaust note, even if I rev it. Good for highway driving I suppose.”

“The engine is pretty decent, thought the spec sheets suggest it has some quirkiness coming along with it. It’s also not as reliable as the last car’s engine, nor is it cheaper to maintain.” Stefan said as he read the brochure.

The 4-speed manual mated to the humble 3.2L V6 managed to propel the car to 100km/h in 8 seconds. While not as fast as the last two cars, it was definitely a respectable figure, nonetheless. However, during her drive, Magda felt the lack of a proper limited-slip differential made the car struggle for traction when putting the power down.

Magda also noticed that the car has no undertray of any sort to damp out road and wind noises. In fact, she noticed that the aerodynamic parts of the car were made of cheap, fiberglass material as well. Quite unsightly, for the pricetag this car has.

“I must say, this is the nicest car I’ve driven since the Fenrir. And the Fenrir was a palace on wheels. And this comes pretty close enough. But…” Magda’s voice trailed off.

“But? Is it not fun to drive, since I’m not noticing you being as adventurous with it as the last two cars? Or is it the bad estimated upkeep cost?” Stefan wondered.

“Well, both of those are a contributing factor. And I could honestly deal with the latter. If I enjoyed driving the car, I’d put up with spending extra money to service it. But spending almost 13 grand more than the Waldersee and getting a car that’s not nearly as enjoyable to drive feels kind of unnecessary.” Magda said.

“I think I know what you mean. If this car was able to justify its pricetag, or perhaps didn’t cost that much more than the Waldersee while having the same specifications, I think we would’ve been fine with it. As it stands now, it’s just a really high markup limited edition shooting brake.” said Stefan.

“And what a shame that is, it looked so good.” Magda let out a sigh.

Notes:

1/ Most of this car’s flaw lies in its massive pricetag, which can be combatted by fixing the techpool. You have an even distribution everywhere. Not only does it not reduce prices where it’s necessary, it actually makes the car more expensive in some places. Remember, techpool does not work like quality. And Engine family techpool and Chassis techpool are very crucial.

2/

image

image

That’s a wombo-combo if I’ve ever seen one. And I was wondering why the fuck is the fuel econ so shit.
Less barrels, less (or same) carbs, bigger size.

3/

image

This also killed your econ I feel like. Bringing the map down too much means less compression headroom for you, ergo less efficiency.

4/ I can see why you omitted a lot of features like diffs, cladding etc. It’s because the price is already so high thanks to the techpool distribution. But there’s some unnecessary costs here and there as well, such as Cor. Res. Steel and Power Steering in a fairly lightweight car.

5/

image

Sensing a pattern here.

6/ Suspension tuning needs a bit of work but it’s surprisingly decent, considering the state of the engine.

7/ After techpool, there’s also quality. +5-ing everything is a horrible idea, especially when you don’t have the allocated techpool to back it up. As you can see, it has jacked up your prices by a massive margin.

I would say this, The Fenrir and the Hamfa made it to the finals purely because of the looks. Both of these cars have their styling down, now if only the engineering wasn’t a minmax mess.


Without further ado, let’s reveal the winner. Sorry no fancy flavor text, I gotta go to my job

  1. Magda likes the near perfect balance of schport and comfort you have managed to bring with this car. And the upkeep’s quite good considering what it packs.

  1. Turból Centurion, close second.

  2. Hamfa Hengst 3200, pulled a sneaky on me with the great styling. But I won’t knock it too much for the engineering, I’ve seen worse.


Thanks to everyone who participated in the challenge or at least read through all this flavor text. Hopefully my next challenge hosting isn’t as much of a mess as this.

Signing off!

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Well, hell, I had a feeling my entry was solid. I also had a feeling that the front clip was the design’s weak point - although, reviewing the design in light of my fast-approaching CSR build, I could have definitely made the rear glass a fair bit better, as well.

I think the round as a whole should prove that a good competition car comes not from how much you throw at it, but from the excellence of execution.

Though I would love to interact with Magda a bit more, it’s better for me to pass down hosting powers (@donutsnail is next) so that I can focus on releasing Cool Wall 5 sometime this month dammit.

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I am out of town all of this coming week so I will pass down as well @Ch_Flash

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Sorry, I can´t take this either, passing on to @GassTiresandOil

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Thanks, great writing and hosting!

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That was quite a read, but well worth it - with plenty of flavor and engineering insights. Thanks for hosting!

I don’t fault Magda at all for preferring a proper pony car over the more humble Swanson - which is more of a mass market offering, with the majority of owners bumbling around with a 70 hp four.

And it looks like a van because..

…it’s brother is. Given that the 5-door hatchback was already quite practical, the case for just a wagon wasn’t too strong - but with a panel van for business, and a 3-door for individualists, the longroof triplets were released a year after the hatch.
Given how small it is, a tall roofline is necessary to actually fit people inside.

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Down to me already? I can’t host either. How about you @Ludvig ?

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Oh boy, I ain’t up for it either at this time.
Now’s your chance @moroza !

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Graciously accepted!

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This should be fun. What do you have in mind?

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The car that got me into cars was a black on black E34 535i manual with a build date of November 9, 1989 - the day the Berlin Wall came down. I might cook that fragment into a complete idea; at this point, the default is: Luxury barge party c. 1989 a la W140 vs. E32, with a Lexus LS twist thrown in. But I’m open to suggestion.

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That does sound fun, but isn’t 20 years a very long interval? I’m not going to short-sell the Lancier that Magda’s bought, but 20 years is a long time for a wealthy person to own a single car. In addition, that luxury QFC we both competed in was also very recent.

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Hm… if we want shorter intervals, I can work with that. Let’s see… 10ish years later, what was going on in the automotive world? The W116 6.9, more better civilized off-roaders, AWD rally cars, Malaise, an increasing diversity of mid-engined exotica… what else?

How many installments of JOC do we have in mind? I wasn’t thinking she’d keep the Lancier the whole time, but if we want more than one or two more without her getting really old, then yes, I’d do something earlier. The late 80’s and early 90’s are the Golden Age, though, especially for Executive Express types.

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The amount of installments isn’t set. Both of the last two rounds had 4 entries, but in JOC2 there would have been another round until the host of JOC2D chose to kill the character off himself instead of leaving a continuation up to the winner.

For what it’s worth, a high-priced late 70s or early 80s round would be pretty interesting. Though CSR154 was set there too, that one was on a budget, sportiness-ignoring and offroad-ignoring; you could choose a very different and unique path indeed. And in terms of Executive Express type cars, the 450 SEL 6.9, Jaguar XJ12 and BMW 745i Turbo were all sold at some point or other in the late 70s and early 80s.

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Or, start with the character and potential life twists against the backdrop of the time and region, and see where this leads you for the 70s?

Journalist / photographer lends itself to all sorts of paths, doesn’t it?

(I think there was also a vague idea of this round being somewhat less stereotypically linear than the previous two, right?)

If you want to know something about Germany in that time, feel free to ask me via PM. I lived there back then and might known the one or other for realism.

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