Reviewing Real Life Cars

Oh, no. I understood the point of the car precisely.

The problem is there are better new cars to be had on the market in the US that are in the same class; In the same price range, one could get a Fit, Fiesta or Mazda 2 to name a few, which are better (and for those that care, more involving) cars than the Versa will ever aspire to be.

The Versa isn’t a luxurious, fast car that never was (and probably never will be) considered desirable. I get that. It’s supposed to be cheap. In fact, it’s the cheapest new car sold in the US. That isn’t enough for me to condemn it.

But…when there are competitors that build vehicles in the same class in the same price range that are much more competent, even if their customers are only really concerned about getting from A-to-B, with little or no other consideration? Just because it’s cheap doesn’t mean it has to be crap.

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That would be almost a fair point, if there wasn’t a 4,000 dollars difference on the starting price between the Versa and the Fit. It is that much worse because it is that much cheaper.
Sure, in the us that might not be a lot, but down here for example, those two cars are far from competitors.

However, I’ll agree on something, the Versa and March/Micra are way worse than they have any rights to be.

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I can’t do a review about a Versa because I haven’t driven one nor been in one… but for what it’s worth; as the resident Nissan fanboy of the forum… even I can’t defend it.
That said… I know someone who has owned two instances of Versa; a first generation, which he then replaced with a second generation… so apparently some people like it enough to get another one.
I would personally much rather get a 16-20 year old used pre-Renault Nissan than buy a Versa. I feel that it will last you just as long (assuming you get one that’s been maintained), and will provide a much better driving experience. Keep the price difference for maintenance and repairs.
I bought my 2000 Altima for $3,000 with 66,000 miles on her, and I’d much rather spend another 3-4 thousand restoring her than to buy a new Versa. I don’t care about fuel economy or lack there of, because I actually get satisfaction from her fuel use. It actually does something when you apply the accelerator; such as make beautiful noises, and get you first off of a red light 75% of the time. A Versa doesn’t.


I can’t do reviews on cars I’ve driven but don’t own because I refuse to drive someone else’s car for paranoia and liability reasons… but I can do reviews of vehicles I have been driven in. I always pay great attention to the vehicle because I like having comparisons.

2005 Nissan Frontier

I’ve always loved the previous generation of Frontier, so I had a fairly negative outlook on this one from the start. Those Renault arches make my eyes bleed, and the reliability and general build quality will never compare to a true Nissan. That said, she does have a few advantages over the previous generation; namely the powerplant.

Powertrain
The engine is the highlight of the vehicle. The VQ40DE provides 261 hp, and it feels underrated. Funny enough; this is the fastest vehicle I have ever been in. I was genuinely surprised at how quick such a large, heavy vehicle can move.
The 5 speed automatic is adequate. It seemed fairly responsive, but the driveline has an excessive amount of slack in it, and that can’t be good for longevity. Switching from forward to reverse causes a lag of about a second followed by an unnerving impact when everything finally becomes loaded.
Engine - 9/10
Transmission - 5/10

Suspension
If I was blind-folded and driven around in my own Altima, and then in a Frontier and asked which was a truck… I would say my Altima. The Frontier has a very smooth and comfortable ride, but it wasn’t floaty and surprisingly to me did not feel uncomfortable or nervous at high speeds (85mph). Considering it has a primative solid rear axle; that is amazing. I can safely say she’s very stable because my driver managed to fully unload the front wheels (catch air) in a construction zone on the highway.
9/10

Interior
Horrible. This is the most uncomfortable vehicle I have been driven in. It has a very vertical seating position, and I can’t deal with that. It has the worst placement for the cigarette lighter I can think of. As the front passenger, my left knee touches it, and I was always afraid of breaking his GPS’ power adapter with my knee, so I was forced to keep my leg tensed the whole trip because I had no where to rest it. The quality could be better, as the plastic had discoloration and significant scratches. The leather seats held up well though.
4/10

Other
Off-road ability depends on trim. I’m going to be negative on this one because locking differentials are only available on the top trims. I don’t consider any vehicle off-road capable unless it has a locking or limited-slip differential. I don’t care if you have 4WD because it is rendered useless as soon as one wheel slips. Ground clearance is adequate for a city pick-up, and the front departure angle is excellent because of the short nose.

She had a very quiet ride… slightly more so than I prefer., as I’d like to hear more of the VQ40… but that’s personal taste. Driveline noise was a little high though… I could hear subtle gear whine. It is very faint… but it is something I’m unused to. My Altima doesn’t even have audible reverse-whine; even though everything but the transmission is very noisy.

Reliability is… mixed. The VQ is an excellent engine, and there are no problems there (besides the usual with belted engines)… but there are problems with the transmission. There is a defect where the coolant line ruptures and allows coolant into the transmission destroying not only it, but the TCU as well. Facepalm

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Perhaps part of the reason why I had such vitriol for the Versa is that I KNOW Nissan can (at least, used to) do small cars right; I had a '96 B14 200SX SE-R that I picked up in 2002 for $2900, and (regrettably) sold it five years later. It was, for the money, the most fun car I ever owned.

It was was reliable, surprisingly rugged, relatively economical , quick enough to surprise quite a few so-called sporty cars at a light or on the highway, light and tossable in the corners, had decent brakes, had a ride that didn’t beat you up, was rather inconspicuous and it was even practical. The only real annoyance was the power moonroof, which frequently rattled like crazy and drove me nuts.

Yeah, there is a $4k price difference between a base Fit and Versa, so perhaps that wasn’t the best example. Howevever, there are other cars its it class that can be had for not that much more. For example, right now one could get a base Ford Fiesta sedan for $600 more than a base Versa. I don’t think an extra $600 is too much to ask for considering the Fiesta is a considerably more capable vehicle overall…

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I’m with you on this completely; as I’ve mentioned with my Altima. If you thought a B14 with it’s dead-axle handled well… you need to drive an 92-00 Altima with Nissan’s rear multi-link :stuck_out_tongue: They won’t be much faster… but the '92 did 0.86g with '92-era econo-tires… so I imagine that’s around 0.90g with today’s all-seasons.

As I drive a car introduced in 1978 I guess my review would help nobody, or should I do anyway?

Why not? If it’s a real life car you have driven I say go for it. I’ll even throw a brief one in.

2003 Pierce Fire Engine (Not certain of the exact model)

The drivers seat was a lot more comfortable than I would’ve expected.

yeah do it! As to whether you compare it to modern cars or cars of that era, that’s up to you.

Part of the idea here is that if two people have driven the same or similar cars, it can serve as a point of comparison of sorts.

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1978-1986 AUDI 80 / AUDI 4000

All right, so I am driving an Audi 4000 / Audi 80 model, one of the very first facelifted ones, produced in 1984. That car has a relatively rare teracotta paint, although worn. The whole car is not a car for collectors, it has some hundred-thousands on his odometer and is still running every day. And yes, it is dented, as over the years some duckheads crashed in it while it was parked and made an accident getaway.

ENGINE AND GEARBOX
The engine is a 1781ccm inline-four, one of the most legendary Volkswagen Audi engines of all time - and the first with three-way converter in the EU (still the first one installed). That car had it for a later mounting and came with standard exhaust, as there were not enough unleaded fuel stations. At low RPM, it pushes the light car (950kg) nicely, but over 4500 rpm, it seems that the engine has no more motivation. The engine sound can not match the one of the legendary Audi l-5, but the l4 has a const droning, a very unique noise. Shifting is a pleasure, short ways exactly leaded. The last gear theoretically goes to 300kmh - top speed is 185 (GPS) in 4th gear (car is supposed to run 170 officially). But that overdrive helps eonomy a lot, as 7,5 L on German Highway is quite acceptable for a car with this age. The fuel tank is made of steel, very old-fashioned. It is placed behind the rear seats so these can not be folded.

INTERIOR

It has plenty passenger space and quite comfortable velours seats, which makes it suitable for long-distance travels. Besides that, the comfort is low. Not even power steering is standard, which makes me feel like Hulk while parking in tiny lots in the city centers. The quality is not premium, there is a huge difference to Mercedes of that time, but workmanship is solid without reasons to complain. The car has a quite strange color and extra combination:
Outside red, blue sport (GT) interior dashbord
Brown premium velours trim with rear armrest, but no power steering
Rev counter and rear fog taillight, but no front foglamps or central locks.

The steering wheel is too large, it limites my knee room, so I have to bend my legs to use the pedals. The wheel is not adjustable. Other than that I can sit very well being a very tall person. Rear seating is excellent, but I have nothing from that.
The trunk has a very unusual size, being very short, but deep.

DRIVING

The suspension is very soft as it was an 80s car for elder men. You can feel the road quite well with the powerless steering, making even a little fun together with the body sway at higher speeds, but the high forces together with the loooooong gearing make it unwieldy in the city. The car understeers, which is quite good as that car has no antilock brakes or other electric systems. I do not drive like a fool with that car, that could cost my life. Ride is surprisingly stiff for a car with such soft setting, maybe the solid rear axle is to blame for that. But other cars of that time are not doing any better.

And besides that? Well, the heating is made for sibirian winters. Holy moly, that is really effective. The car is said to be a very reliable one, but as that car is permanently on the road since nearlly 35 years, there is always something that breaks, goes on strike, you have to fix the car really often. But no matter what ends its service, that sturdy jalopy NEVER FAILED. No matter if gaskets, bearings, or what else, that car drove terribly, but it drove to the next service station. You can’t stop it. And yes, rust is a problem. The B2 is better than average, but it can rust really fast if you’re not caring at all about it. The successor has galvanized steel - this generation not.

VERDICT

If you want a classic car to drive everyday to work with, the B2 is worth a look. Its handling is manageable, engine delivers enough power to go with the normal traffic and interior space is still huge. Running costs are average, as the consumption is low, the insurance even lower (just pensioners drive that car!) but Audi supplies barely any spare part. Wear parts are accessible as most VWs use the same, but besides that, it’s really bad. Anyway, I am going for the damn million on the clock!

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Those were solid handling cars. I didn’t personally own one, but my mom did. I got to drive it around the time i got my permit, and it felt really nice to drive.

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I’ll try this out.
2015 Ram ProMaster City:

I drove one of these from DC to Tallahassee, Florida and back. I had something really important to do down there, and since my car was being repaired at the time, my dad said I could use this, which is his car (the one pictured is the same color and configuration as his). He won’t be using this very often for the next few months, and since I help him out a lot, I’ve driven it several times since then. Anyway, onto the review.

Style:
It’s a cargo van. I wasn’t really expecting much more aesthetically pleasing than the Chevy Expresses and Mercedes Sprinters he uses as work vehicles (he’s a plumber by trade). While nothing to write home about, I think it looks decent. But I could be biased since I prefer simpler vehicles, and being exposed to battered vans all the time has set the bar really low.

Interior:
Again, cargo van. It’s built to haul tons of heavy crap around and get battered and bruised in the process. Although, I can say that I wasn’t ever very uncomfortable in this car. Surprisingly, it’s reasonably equipped. It had bluetooth and navigation as standard, so I could find way my way around while freeing up my phone for DJ duty. The seats are decent enough, and the armrests are all sufficiently padded. My only complaint is that the cup holders are kind of hard to get to. Also, the door handle design takes some getting used to.

Powertrain:
Chrysler’s Multiair 2.4L 4 is a decent engine. It’s reasonably peppy, and had no trouble getting up to highway speeds, regardless of how much crap we had in the cargo area. The fuel economy was also good. And that brings us to the gearbox. The famous (more like infamous) ZF 9HP 9 speed auto. I will say this, the unit in that particular model didn’t have any issues, but it did keep me concerned. In terms of operation, it behaves kind of like a CVT. And it certainly droned like one. But it doesn’t really bother me since I usually had my windows down and my music on blast (forgot to mention, the stereo is pretty solid). All in all, it does it’s job well enough. But FCA needs to be more careful in choosing gearboxes in the future.

Driving Impressions:
This thing cruises pretty well. And despite the suspension being relatively stiff, It was never jarring. In fact, it was pretty smooth. Sometimes, I almost forgot that there was about 500 pounds of tools and spare parts in the back. It never really felt slow while accelerating, and the brakes also worked rather well. However, the gas and brake pedals felt almost completely numb. But that’s been the same for pretty much everything Ive driven that was built after 2009 (if I should ever buy a car with electronic pedals, I’m doing a mechanical conversion). But despite that, it wasn’t anything that you can’t adjust to pretty quickly.

Verdict:
It’s a decent hauler that provides a decent ride and fuel economy, and works well in the urban environments it was designed to. Although if all you need is something to haul stuff, there are cheaper alternatives, both new and used. But for what it is, I can’t complain.

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I’m not surprised about the stereo, Chrysler has usually always been good about that in their cars.

They have been in my experience. But in general, my experience with Chrysler products has been good. The whole reason my dad bought the ProMaster is because his old Dodge Durango had left such a positive impresion on him.

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2017 Ford Mustang GT (w/Performance Package)

Had a day off work, was bored, went to the website of the Ford dealer where I bought my 2011 Mustang, and found this…

A base 2017 Mustang GT with a 6-speed manual, along with the Performance Package. I called the dealer, talked to the sales manager that sold me my 2011, and asked for a test drive. He said no problem, and a half-hour later, I was there. Incidentally, there was a gray 2017 Focus RS sitting in the showroom floor, and offhandedly mentioned that if I knew they had one of these, I’d test drive that instead. But, since Ford would only allocate one RS to this dealer, and it was already sold, the manager reluctantly told me that would not be possible. So, without further ado…

Powertrain:

The Mustang GT I drove had the well-established 5.0 liter ‘Coyote’ DOHC 32-valve V-8, with its all-aluminum heads and block, matched to a Getrag MT82 6-speed manual transmission. Since the GT I drove was equipped with the Performance Package, it came with a 3.73 Torsen limited-slip rear axle by default.

Perhaps it was this fairly aggressive rear-end gear and the manual transmission that made it feel faster than my Challenger Scat Pack, and as fast as the 2016 Camaro SS I drove earlier this year (although objectively speaking, stock for stock, these two cars would likely be victorious in a straight line duel at a light, although the GT would put up quite a fight…). If I recall, most car rags put the 2015+ GT in the low-mid 4 second range 0-60, and mid to upper-12s in the 1/4 mile.

Horsepower peaks at 435 @ 6500rpm, along with 400lb-ft of torque @ 4250. Maximum RPM is 7000. The exhaust note is quite satisfying, more so than a stock 2016 Camaro SS, but slightly muted compared to the 2011-2014 S197 5.0L Mustang, and simply doesn’t compared to the visceral roar of a 392 Hemi at full throttle. I’m pretty sure the aftermarket has several million solutions for that particular problem, however…

The MT82 6-speed manual feels considerably improved over the one I had in my 2011 Mustang. Shifts were considerably less notchy, throws felt fairly short and positive, and reverse (thankfully) doesn’t occupy the same spot as 1st gear (I’ve had several instances where I inadvertently pushed down on the shifter, and nearly backed into a car behind me, or my garage…) as in the 2011-2014 cars. Clutch pedal felt just right; not too heavy or light. Thankfully, the 2015+ Mustang GT does not have the infuriatingly stupid (but easy to defeat) skip-shift feature…

Throttle response was lightning quick; the 5.0 Coyote may not have the low-end torque of an LT1 or a 392 Hemi, but it’s still very respectable, and nothing to the sneer at; even in second gear the Mustang got underway very quickly. At mid-range up to redline, the Coyote really wakes up.

Fuel economy is 15 city and 25 on the highway for the 6-speed manual, like its closest rival, the Camaro SS. For a 3700-3800lb 435hp performance car, it’s fairly respectable. The 5.0L Coyote doesn’t use a direct-fuel injection system like the LT1, nor any cylinder deactivation which the GM and Chrysler V-8s both use.

Ride/Handling

Ford FINALLY switched to an independent rear suspension across all Mustang trim levels for the 2015 model (of course, the '99 Mustang Cobra was the first production Mustang featuring an independent rear, which many people seem to forget).

This GT felt much more composed than my live-axle 2011 GT on rough and/or uneven roads, and had a smoother, more refined ride overall.

As the GT I drove had the optional Performance Package, it wore 255/40/19 front and 275/40/19 rear Pirelli P Zero summer tires mounted on gloss black BBS-like 19"x9" and 19"x9.5" wheels, and felt quite grippy around bends. It didn’t quite have the sharpness of the 2016 Camaro SS I drove, but still felt satisfyingly agile and eager to be thrown around corners, but with more confidence than in my 2011 GT, and felt far more nimble than my Challenger. Driving around town and in parking lots was less of a chore than the other coupes.

The brakes on this GT were incredibly good; Fifteen-inch vented discs with 6-piston Brembo calipers up front, with 13" vented discs with single-piston calipers in the back. Pedal feel was excellent, better than the Challenger, and FAR better than the Camaro. The only problem I had with the brakes was not worrying about stopping in time, but worrying about the car behind me being able to stop in time…

Interior/comfort:

The Mustang GT I drove was a base model, which meant cloth seats, it also usually meant a disgustingly-cheap feeling plastic steering wheel and hard-ass, unappetizing black plastic dash on the preceding S197 models. Not so with the 2015+ cars, especially with the performance package; so upgraded, even the base GT gets treated to a very attractive engine-turned dark-aluminum dashboard treatment. The steering wheel is leather, and smaller than the previous Mustang GT, enhancing its sportier feel. Instrumentation was easier to read than the S197 GT. The base GT’s infotainment system had a ridiculously small display, and surrounded by about 25-30 buttons. The GT Premium uses an 8 inch touchscreen instead.

In terms of interior sight lines, the Mustang is far superior to the Camaro and Challenger. The GT I drove had no blind-spot warning system, but it didn’t need one, since I could actually SEE around the damn car, unlike the Dodge and the Chevy. It also made me feel more like I was driving around in a car, instead of a cave.

Like the Camaro, the Mustang felt somewhat tight, but not claustrophobic. Headroom, shoulder and knee room were quite sufficient, and the standard seats, like the Camaro, were comfortable enough in most situations, except in hard cornering. When driven sanely, the cabin is remarkably quiet (too quiet, in my opinion…).

Of course, like other Mustangs, as well as the Camaro, the back seat is best reserved for small children, height-challenged individuals and frenemies. The trunk isn’t as big as a Challenger’s, but at 13.5 cubic feel, still quite usable, with a fairly low lift-over height, and a damn sight more usable than the Camaro’s ‘trunk’.

Exterior styling:

I wasn’t really blown away when I saw the first leaked pics of the 2015 Mustang. However, once I saw them in person, especially in GT trim, and in a darker hue, I warmed up to the styling quite a bit. I wish the front end looked less like a Fusion, but overall, I like the car’s overall lines and proportions, and in a dark color, especially with the black Performance Package wheels, can look quite menacing.

Overall, in this very subjective area, I find the GT better-looking than the Camaro, but still, from a strictly styling-only comparison, I still find the 2015+ Challenger to be the best looking of these three coupes…

Build quality: Like the Camaro, there are some areas around the interior which sport some fairly-cheap looking plastic. Otherwise, again, like the Camaro, this Mustang felt like it was assembled competently. I could not find any misaligned body panels, paint defect or other signs of shoddy craftsmanship. The interior similarly had no quality issues.

Overall (aka TL;DR)

Pluses:

  • Easier to live with day-to-day than Camaro and Challenger
  • Very good sight lines to the outside world
  • Good handling (not as good as a Camaro SS, but still very respectable) and ride
  • Comfortable front-seat dimensions for average-size adult
  • Strong, very tractable V-8 power
  • Smooth-shifting manual transmission and clutch feels ‘just right’
  • Outstanding brakes
  • (subjective) Looks good, especially in a darker color with the Performance Package
  • around $3-4k less than a comparable Camaro SS

Minuses:

  • Not something to go and pick a fight with a Challenger Scat Pack/SRT392 or Camaro SS, at least in stock form
  • Back seat is almost useless for adult use
  • Exhaust note is a bit more quiet than I’d like
  • (subjective) Wish the front end was more Mustang and less Fusion…

Now that I’ve driven all three of these American mid-range V-8 coupes, I can definitely say I prefer the Mustang over the other two.

The Camaro SS has a definite edge in straight-line power and handling, but is let down by function-follows-form styling and relatively high price.

The Challenger Scat Pack/SRT 392, though not as bad as the Camaro in terms of outside visibility, and no slouch in straight-line performance, as well as being a surprisingly capable handler (though not as good as the Camaro or Mustang), and having a substantial trunk and a usable back seat, is still held back by its ponderous weight and size, and in my case, sub-par build quality.

The Mustang, however, while not being the fastest of these three, is still more than fast enough to be enjoyable, while still being fun to throw around corners, as well as being more civilized and practical enough to live with on a day-by-day basis than the other two cars.

As more problems crop up with my Challenger, along with my increasing frustration with FCA’s inability to rectify them in a competent manner, along with a lack of affordable V-8 coupes from Asia and Europe (if there were, I’d have given up on American cars long ago…), I’ll most likely sell my Challenger in the not too-distant future, and order a 2017-2018 Mustang GT Premium in Magnetic Gray or Lightning Blue with the Performance Package to replace it…

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