Yeah, I had to run the fuel mixture slider at 80 but the cam down at 20 and compression at around 10-11.0 to 1.
Side note, fine tuning for WES11 suuuuucks. One tick of fuel mixture dramatically shifts all the values with seemingly no rhyme or reason, then the next tick seemed to reverse the effects a lot of the time.
NVM I may have gotten ahead of myself and tried to submit a early version.
regarding WES levels, if anyone has any knowledge as to what level you’re supposed to have for the in-game equivalent of the US in 2020, if it maybe is lower than 11, i’d appreciate the input, as i’m not really that well-versed in that regard.
regarding fuel economy, i didn’t consider it because i feel it is expected for such a car to be a gas guzzler.
Can we do 461 cc per cylinder?
no
Shooting brakes?
also no. i’ll clarify
Okay, so current US emissions standards are a bit weird. Since 2017, we follow the Tier III regulations which do not care about separate NOx or HC emissions, but instead add them together. There is a stringent fleet average that a manufacturer must meet - as of 2020, the number is 65 mg/mi, or 40 mg/km; But individual models can be grouped into “bins” of less stringent emissions requirements, with the most lax bin allowing 160 mg/mi (100 mg/km) NOx +HC.
I am not sure how you want to play this, but given that in the US you are a) allowed to break emissions rules as long as you buy EPA credits and b) the muscle cars are well known as outliers to the corporate fleet average, you could conceivably set a lower WES like 10 or 9 for the challenge. This is especially true given that all efficiency calculations are currently off due to outdated throttle rules due to change in the next update.
Very well, I’ll lower the WES level to 9, should reflect this more realistically and allow OHV without as much bother for those that want to build such engines.
Thanks for your input btw!
What about hypothetical carbon fibre pieces as roof, bonnet? Do we need to paint them? Also, does adding stripes or similar stuff mean we’re going to break a rule?
This is my perfect opportunity to remake my fourth-generation Vermilion Daredevil muscle car, which was the second car I’ve ever built in Automation (first one is the Vermilion Promethium, which is a 8.8L OHV V10 sports car), but never got a remake. I’ve got a trump card in my hands.
i’ll say no to carbon fibre on big areas, except the roof. so, side skirts, lower bumpers/splitters/diffusers, mirrors, any vents you’d like to add, door handles and the roof can be carbon fibre or any dark grayscale accent color, everything else must be white. stripes won’t be allowed, as the original car didn’t have them.
You should maybe include the original car in the inspirations since you are basing a lot of the design restrictions around it.
I second with this comment above. I’d also say that many muscle cars (OEM and aftermarket) that I’ve seen also have a carbon fiber hood. I don’t know which kind of car you’re looking for, so I can’t judge on this one, but you should really put some white modern muscle cars in the inspirations instead.
Done 
Also, I would probably argue with that, but 2020 muscle cars with V8 engine were fitted with an engine displacing at least 5038 cc in the Mustang GT 5.0L, going up as insane as the car gets. So I would say that 625 cc per cylinder would be better in case DOHC engines are allowed, since it’s very rounded up to 5.0L, or 5000 cc.
And also, you don’t really need a 5.75L V10 engine to rev high RPMs when you can increase the displacement slightly (probably increase the bore) to 6.25L V10 and still rev high. I’ve seen someone modifying a Ford 6.8L Triton V10 to rev around 8000 RPM with estimated 700 hp, and another using a modified and destroked 7.6L Viper V10 engine that makes over 800 hp and can also rev a bit over 8000 RPM. Sure, these are modified engines, but still.
Now, for the engine layout, since you want large engines in an old-fashioned way, I would really recommend enforcing OHV valvetrain, since WES 9 requirements are there, and it’s still possible to make a car that meets the emission standards with WES 9 in 2020, hell I’ve even made both 450+ hp 6.2L and 600+ hp 7.0L (although that one has quality spam) WES 11 engines, I’d say that it’s possible to make a 7.0L engine making around 600 hp with WES 9 emission standards and lower costs.
Now, if you’re going to make them only OHV V8 allowed, then I’d say that 750 cc per cylinder is a good bet, and it would equal to 6000 cc (6.0L) for a V8, and 7500 cc (7.5L) for a V10, and it’s pretty much viable, in my opinion.
Also, another thing that I should mention, is that OHV engines are usually much lighter than their DOHC counterparts, and thus making the cars lighter and their weight distribution more balanced, even with higher displacement.
So, I’d say I’d keep all the engines only OHV, if you want to fit the criteria of high displacement, old school muscle engines.
Edit: Hell, I did manage to get a 650 hp carbureted 7.6L OHV V8 engine pass WES 9, although it has a bit of quality spam.
I’d keep the present limit just so people can be more inventive about it. The car already has to be white and clearly movie-inspired, could give people some degrees of freedom at least. Also opens up the door to some silly stuff like a 4.6 liter pushrod making 400 due to being outfitted with high-revving everything parts.
While I don’t oppose high-rpm engines (especially V8s, as Fords rev relatively high and LSs are also capable of doing so without losing the muscle car character), what I want to achieve with V10s is the opposite, I don’t think muscle cars should have engines like the LFA, Carrera GT or BMW M5, but something larger like the Viper V10 could fit the bill. I think the displacement limit restricts this well enough without me adding a RPM or powerband rule. Again, I’m not saying not to make revvy engines, just that the character of the car might shift away from “muscle car” if it behaves like an exotic supercar.
I mean, Ford has had OHC engines for about 30 years, GM is also going that route and Mopar doesn’t even use V8s anymore. I think giving freedom for choosing valvetrains allows for a bit more creativity in how to make power and how to meet the rules and priorities, and keeps the challenge feeling modern.
Exactly, I would rather see a variety of engines with different approaches to making power – revs, low end grunt, turbocharging, etc. – than a bunch of LS clones.
If the Gen 6 small-block adopts multiple cams, it would be a tragedy. Thanks Tier 3, thanks for the bullshit
Fair enough, I believe I forgot that the car already has to be white, white is kind of a simple color, so you’re right, creativity won’t hurt.
Fair enough, I was about to mention about Ford 427 Cammer engines from the 60s that made lots of power. And yeah, let’s see what the creativity will do. I mean, I have to admit that I only thought about the large displacement OHV engine fans (myself included), and forgot that, for example, a 5.0L Coyote V8 is heavier and larger than a 7.3L Godzilla V8. So, I guess that the WES 9 also gives more freedom of creativity, and to be fair, I agree with that.