That one’s probably pretty straight forward, I think one of these is going to be much faster than the others.
What should happen to the CSR in general?
I ask this because after 112 rounds the format of the hosting is clearly quite gruelling. We’ve discussed this every time somebody bails or something doesn’t work out, which is normal. Until this point everybody kind of ends up agreeing to let it keep going as it does but the amount of work required to host to some kind of unspoken standard is now often inaccessible to anybody except the kind of person who works insanely fast because they don’t have any free time, and most of those people know better than to volunteer to host a round.
There have been a number of suggestions, so I figured I’d put them also in a poll but then have it up for discussion. The poll winner may not be the eventual decision we go with, but at least it’s a way to kick things off.
Kill the CSR. The format’s run its course. At least until the next person comes along and decides to run CSR2: Electric Boogaloo, which you know will definitely happen
Split the CSR into two streams, with no restrictions on who enters which except if you get banned from hosting because you bailed on a round without explanation. Except some people may end up entering both streams and then each host still has to process 50 entries…
Split the CSR into two streams, and any one user can only enter one of them at a time, except policing that is going to be a pain in the ass and probably generate ridiculous amounts of salt
Keep the CSR as is but allow the host to impose a limit on the number of entries commented upon regardless of number of entries
Keep the CSR as is but allow the host a flexible deadline proportional to the number of entries
Keep the CSR as is entirely, and it’ll all come out in the wash
Honestly I like the CSR as it is, it’s just the high number of detailed review people expect from a host (because else they get salty) that is the issue.
I see no issue that a host simply lists the following:
entries binned because not meeting requirements
entries sub-par in styling
entries sub-par in technical design
entries just not good enough
And then follows with the 10 or so best designs and reviews those.
inb4 ocean of salt due to Tier 3 aesthetically challenged designers
But yeah sometimes that’s unavoidable. Obviously it’s up to the host to be clear about what they are emphasising from the outset and sticking to it, which most hosts have done an okay job of doing.
Agree, but also… If you get binned because your design isn’t good enough, there’s nothing stopping you from asking nicely for some constructive feedback outside of the CSR formal process.
Maybe that’s a solution? Have a separate ‘official’ CSR wash up thread where people who have been binned can post for feedback from the community, but only after CSR round has finished? It would effectively shift a lot of the burden off the CSR host and share it around all the other board members (most likely the regular/core CSR entrants).
Good idea, like an after show forum kind of deal. “CSR: a community review” Help members improve. Would the host start the review panel, or would it be the winner? What would be the time frame for follow up and feedback?
This should be streamlined as an in-game multiplayer event. Submitting a .car file would upload to a central server, where some kind of market demographics similar to single player can be applied to the entries. Maybe multiplayer would allow for multiple judging and even more interesting outcomes? The other games I play host community participated events on a calendar deadline, this should be no different.
Something that has been discussed before and is worth reiterating now was the idea that once a host gets more than 30 entries they get a fourth day to write up the results, a fifth once they go over 40, and so on for every ten extra entries. That way the expectations people have from a host with 25 entries could be met by one with 45 entries.
(Still worth noting that it’s expected to get started on the reviews before the round closes. If waiting until after to even look at the cars you’ll have a bad time no matter how many extra days you get.)
This is an interesting idea but a double edged one.
Centralising the process would possibly necessitate removing most of the variability in interpretation of the metrics. Given Automation is a game of metrics this can block off some of the salt mine (I mean some people are just special so it won’t be perfect). But it may also stifle sone creative liberties. I mean the main problem is that if you just tie it to market demographics then what even is the point of the whole CSR then? Nit to mention the market calculations are a bit… Controversial in places.
Alternatively a central database for upload could just be used to streamline data collection process but I don’t see a huge advantage of this plus everybody would need to provide permission to have their files freely available to everyone else.
Ok I’m back from work. Sorry I didn’t actually stipulate a timeframe for the polls, I may or may not have drunk beer before writing said poll and I’m a cheap drunk, which is great for my bank balance.
Joining the discussion between this and the Discord chat, the way forward seems clear to me.
We’ll hold a poll to determine hosting order for the next round. By we I mean “can somebody else collate all the ads up with as many relevant stats are included” because I’m too busy sorry. I know this isn’t entirely fair as some people can jazz things up better than others and it won’t reflect the car very well, but it’s what we have to go with.
I actually think that a mix of both flexible deadline and a formal structure to optionally limit reviews to a proportion of entries received. Note that I am not suggesting that entries be cut off at a quota because altering the dynamic to rush entries just makes for shitty entries. I am suggesting that the host be granted the formal power to literally say “these entries are being binned for x”, list them and leave it at that. After all in real life, a client doesn’t really go around looking at about 50 vehicles before buying one. I’ll probably have to think up some formal structure to sanction users who generate too much salt when they get binned in the interest of keeping things moving on. The Discord community does, after all, remain a viable source of feedback, speaking of which…
Somebody floated the option of allowing detailed feedback from the previous host to spill over past the end of the round. This is a great idea: while not as suspenseful and possibly disruptive to the flow of a round, if need be one can simply post the reviews of the best entries and save the rest for later.
And the other idea floating around is that while some people have been around long enough to see the CSR go there and back and there and back again and just want it to die, the reality is that the idea is purely in the recurring format and not much more. The spinoffs are welcome. But perhaps it’s time for the forums to have a little bit of a break from this particular CSR. I don’t know how long it would be, but I’m hoping you all think long enough for me to be able to rewrite the rules and come up with an optimised structure so that each host doesn’t sign up for pain on par with pissing out a kidney stone.
How long should we impose a CSR moratorium on the forum after the poll to determine hosting order is completed?
No delay! Proceed immediately with the next round
We could do with a week off
We could do with a fortnight
This forum is traumatised and needs time to heal. How about a month
Fuck this, I thought I told you I wanted it dead FOREVER
It seems like the popular opinion is to allow hosts more time based on the number of entries. I still think running two streams concurrently (staggered) would help with that, as it would mean while one host takes their time judging, another round is open for entries and gives people something to do besides wait. I know people are always anxious for the next round to start.
It’s definitely true that hosts can’t be expected to give in-depth reviews of every entry. I like the idea of some kind of post-CSR review/help for those who want to improve and get more feedback.
Oh, so you mean one round being run for a week while the other round waits for re iews?
I can see why that appeals, but I also can think of several ways that it would quite quickly derail, mostly involving creeping dissynchrony where the hosts don’t operate in tandem (which I wouldn’t expect them to)!
The rules would have to be clear, host A has week A, and host B has week B, the issue arises in the extra days for extra cars. Ideally CSR would be Monday morning, post story. Tuesday evening finalize rules. Sunday evening, close entries. Reviews due by Friday. Then stagger, such a tight schedule would be difficult to uphold, and when one is late, the other would be pushed back. Better to keep the current structure I think.
My two cents: (and the polls above closed before i could vote)
1.) People who cant or are not willing to host a CSR challenge BUT are entering the challenge need to indicate this in the PM AND their car ad. Add this to the current rules/format. Use this list to also smooth out the problem of going down the list and waiting and waiting for each person to respond Y/N to hosting the next round.
2.) High number of entries = more review time, the set in stone review times as it is now causes nothing but rushed judging due to the number of entries, or just the host simply giving up as it takes too much time.
3.) More cars need to be binned from the get go for ANY VALID REASON, ALSO cars who dont meet the rules or min requirements dont even get written/posted about. The host should not be required to waste time because someone else cant take the time to verify their car meets the requirements.
4.) Collabative entries should be encouraged, it would reduce the amount of entries while raising the quality of the entries.
5.) Allow any and all feedback and questions after the round concludes, alot of people enter these just to see how their cars does VS others and want some more substantial feedback, if the host has the time and is willing. Just because the round ends does not mean the discussion should.
6.) People who enter “troll” or obvious low effort(meme) entries multiple times should be banned from CSR for X amount of time.
7.) People who accept hosting duties but dont complete their hosted round and dont have a “valid” reason for doing so should no longer be allowed to host for X amount of time.
Additional Comment:
Revamp the entry process by using a seperate site, such as google docs, which allows much better organization. But moving it from this site has its issues. This would also solve the issue with new users not being able to PM the csr host.
Alright, so with the blessing of strop I’ll be handling the voting system we’ll be using for choosing the next host. We’ll keep this nice and simple to get things back up and running with as little complication as possible.
Voting submission rules
Only submit your car for voting if you know you can/want to host the next round.
If you win the vote and pass off hosting duties, you will be barred from entering the next 3 rounds of CSR. Seriously, only post if you can host.
You are free to delete your post at any point before the voting poll is posted should you decide you cannot host the next round (even if you think you won’t win the vote).
In a single post, share 1-2 images clearly showing your car, as well as a screenshot of the stats in the “Design,” “Detail Stats,” “Test Track,” and “Engine Testing” tabs. Best to crop these in MS Paint or something than just posting full screenshots and make sure the car name is visible with the stats. Use my entry below as an example.
If your entry doesn’t include the required images/stats, you will not be included in the poll. I’m not going to go around and remind people to read the rules and double check submissions
Post your entry for voting in the next 60 hours. The deadline for the posts will be 10 AM EDT (GMT-4) on October 12th.
One we reach that deadline for submissions, I will work on making a poll of all the entries and post it with some voting rules at that time.
Feel free to ask me here or on the Discord if anything about this is unclear.
Edit: Added a new rule 5, moved the deadline to rule 6.
