Why are there no options for the core “frame” of the vehicles?
There is some precedence there from Pontiac and Jaguar to mass produce spaceframes, to say nothing of all the motorbikes and sports cars that used them. It seems odd to me that we have absolutely no means of mass producing them.
As for Chassis, it seems weird that the game treats a small hatchback chassis and a carbon monocoque as exactly the same thing.
Maybe at some point down the line, we could get a couple options under each of the big three? Perhaps:
I kinda agree on this one though, since most carbon monocoque chassis are built in a way that’s similar to a semi-spaceframe chassis, with a central carbon fiber part and two subrames made out of steel or aluminum tubing.
But appart from that example with the carbon fiber chassis, all metal monocoque chassis are designed in a similar fashion, with the only difference that instead of using specially shaped sheet metal for holding the suspension and engine, some manufacturers (audi especially) will use a bunch of tubing that they cut and weld in place, resulting in what is called a semi-spaceframe chassis, which the devs plan to add to the game.
That’s actually a body on frame chassis. The main reason the game doesn’t and probably won’t have all types of body on frame chassis is that they all have somewhat similar advantages and disadvantages, meaning we would end up with tons of very similar options, using up space that could be used for other more interesting chassis types.
IRL and in the game, spaceframe usually refers to chassis made out of tubular sections of metal that is cut and then welded together, with some bending but nothing complicated.
TVR and most low production brands do this because you don’t need much fancy tooling to make those.
The Pontiac you are talking about I imagine is the Fierro, and while Pontiac themselves described it as a spaceframe chassis, from the seemingly stock chassis pics I can find, it’s pretty much made the same way as any other unibody mid-engined car, with loads of formed sheetmetal and beams. The use of the term spaceframe here is what could be accurately described as “marketing wank”.
I’d like to know which Jaguar you are talking about specifically because while Jaguar did produce some spaceframe chassis cars, the ones I know of were all low production.
The Fiero is a spaceframe, the panels were not used for anything other than to cover the frame, unlike a unibody where the panels are used to add strength to the overall vehicle. There’s also no sheetmetal anywhere on that car, it’s plastic panels from tip to tail.
That doesn’t change the fact that the methods used to make said frame, as well as the properties of the frame in terms of rigidity and weight, are much much closer to a regular unibody than it is to a tubular spaceframe.
And if you ask anyone who is into car design what is a spaceframe, 99% will tell you it’s something made out of welded pieces of tubing, which isn’t what the Fiero is. That is also the definition of spaceframe used by the game.
While I agree that tubular is the one we see the most (Because racecar), it doesn’t change the fact that a spaceframe can be made in basically whatever shape is desired. I’m not asking to replace the tubular style of spaceframe in the game, I think those are important, especially if we ever implement any kind of racecar mechanic. But there’s no reason we couldn’t have more commonly seen spaceframe styles to complement that, and to actually make spaceframes worthwhile in any capacity.
If I remember correctly, semi-space frame are coming eventually, unless the devs changed their mind about it (I imagine something like the R8 chassis)
Also [quote=“RomeoReject, post:1, topic:19062”]
It seems odd to me that we have absolutely no means of mass producing them.
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It’s not that you cannot mass produce them, they only have a production penalty, but you can built as many as you want in a large factory xD.
The reason is time and money vs how those things enrich the gameplay experience. Also, why did you said “if we implement…” you’re not part of the dev team
Well that’ll help, like I said, I’m always going to appreciate more chassis options.
Yes, but again, I fail to understand why. The Fiero sold almost twice as many cars as the MR-2. Or, to keep it all in-house, three times the Pontiac 6000 on its mass-produced A-body frame. I’m not saying spaceframe should have no downsides, but it seems weird that a more simplistic option for mass-production isn’t possible.
I phrased that weird, I mean if we ever get a racecar mechanic implemented. And yes, certainly not a dev!
As you seem to not have fully read my earlier post, the Fiero doesn’t follow the definition of spaceframe used by the game.
A tubular space-frame (what wehave in game) is hard to mass produce because it is hard to automate. It is commonly used for low production cars though because you can easily make a tubular spaceframe using a few thousand dollars worth of tooling, since you only need a welder, a pipe bender, and a way to cut and flare the tubes, which is something I have seen mini-baja SAE teams do using a hacksaw and a bench grinder.
The Fiero on the other hand isn’t a true spaceframe following the engineering definition of what a spaceframe is, which is a tubular structure that includes a lot of triangles for rigidity. The Fiero’s chassis is a lot closer in terms of design, fabrication and performance to a regular unibody chassis. You use the exact same manufacturing process to make the “spaceframe” of a Fiero as you do to make the chassis of a Toyota Corolla.
And just to be sure you understand, a unibody is actually better than a spaceframe on pretty much all aspects except ease of repairs (since you can often just chop a tube off and weld a new one) and cost of tooling.
A spaceframe chassis is heavier than a unibody of the same rigidity when using the exact same materials.
Right, definitely read what you said, but as I said, I get that the tubular spaceframe is hard to mass produce, but what I’m asking for is alternatives to the tubular set up.
The Fiero is a true space frame. It is not a tubular spaceframe. The engineering definition of a spaceframe is absolutely being followed. And again, a unibody is very strictly defined as a vehicle where the entirety of the body assists in managing the stress of the design. The Fiero does not have any stress put on any body component anywhere on the car. Like a funny car, you could remove the entire shell without impacting support in any way. (Space frame - Wikipedia)
I’m also aware of the advantages of the unibody, I’ve got my red seal as an auto tech. But a unibody is complex to engineer, and requires a strength of body in order to function. A spaceframe can be welded up by a small team, and doesn’t really care what covers it. Unibody is definitely better, no arguments there, but spaceframes have their niche.
From what I understand… the Fiero is a slightly snowflake monocoque; mostly in the fact that they skipped some welding and allowed the rear panels and a few other components to unbolt.
I think my issue is why no unibody and unibody sub frame cars, those are two of the most common car frame types used. Hardly no production cars use space frame or monocoque
Damn… so i own two of the very rare mass-produces prototypes from Alfa and Opel?
Every car these days is built as a monocoque (or called Unibody by the most)
Spaceframe is still prevalent for some super sporty cards built by small manufacturers.
Actual monocoques are fairly uncommon, to be honest. There’s a billion unibodies, but the amount of cars using a proper monocoque chassis is very rare, given how tough the are to design around, build strength around and how expensive they are to repair.
I suspect that what you stated in that momocoque are unibodies may be true but if that is the case it should be corrected because they are not the same thing.
This seems to be a slightly weird terminology thing, where some sources refer to Unibody as Monocoque, while some say that Monocoque is a different thing (with a structural skin).
Technically it seems that the 2nd one is more correct, so that’s interesting, and I’m not sure why sources don’t seem to all agree on what to call a normal stamped steel chassis…
