Lessons Learned

[flop404]

Euro market (at least until the 90s) was very predominantly a market with sub 2L, inline 4 engines, with the 2l being already the upper end of the midsize segment.

Anything over 2l/180 inches would have been full size / midsize luxury.

Germany was a bit specific, but even there you had small displacements. The low-end Mercedes C series (or BMW 5 series) were the bulk of the Euro market, with the higher end engines made almost exclusively for the US market (and also the numerous US military present in Germany at the time, which also explain why there is somewhat of a market for Camaros and Mustangs)

The main reasons were the taxes. France and Italy had a “luxury tax”, which implied a steep increase for anything over 2000 cc - which is the reason why you’ll find, for instance, a domestic-market only “Ferrari 208 GTB”, for instance, with a turbocharged 2 liters V8 (!) instead of the 3 liters V8 of the Ferrari 308.

You’ll also find somewhat the same specifics in Japan, with not only the famed Kei Cars but also a lot of sub-2000 cars, intended for domestic market, with the larger displacements targeted specifically for the US.

With the 80’s deregulation, most of the tax incentives to go small disappeared, and you had a blossoming of V6 in the high ends in France and Italy, as well as a developpment of the V8 and even V12 in German cars, from the late 80s up to the late 00s (where we entered the downsizing era)

[RobtheFiend]

Volvo 850 T5R had a 5 cyl 2.0t engine only for the Italian and Japanese? markets.
All other got a “2.5 liter” (2435cc)

[undercoverhardwarema]

Learning my lesson, I put into a Euro challenge, with a Euro-sized engine. More like this is a cheap knockoff if you will; seems to be a common theme with my Giusseppe brand…GS - Roadster Clone Clone.car (31.4 KB)
GS - Roadster Clone.car (31.4 KB)
Nonetheless (and I cannot remember which is which), I built one with an American Spec M3 engine. Both came out around the same price, same amount of production units (within a couple thousand dollars).

I like the front, I swear I did this design before, with a better profile view, and I’m not entirely happy with the rear; I tried to do something, but I’m not too skilled at it apparently.

[Knugcab]

In 1993 the 190/C-class was the smallest Mercedes available.
And the 2 litre engine in the V70 is mostly for markets where cars are taxed after engine size. V70s sold in Sweden, for example, have the 2.4 litre.

[Fayeding_Spray]

I feel like you need to maybe learn a lesson or two in Design Consistency and Era Accuracy.

The Front and rear don’t seem to be from the same car, there’s no consistency. The front looks late 80’s, and the back looks modern. Those wheels are a tad big for 2001, too. It looks like it’s a 1980’s concept front wedged onto a 2010’s retro concept’s back.

[Mikonp7]

I looked at the car.
From from a technical point there are only 2 big problems:
Steel for the Chassis (Heavy and rusts)
Fullclad (Not again…)

The problem here is the design and the idea of the car itself.
The design combined three different design times: The front is from the early 90’s , the sides from 2000ish and the back is 2010+.

Also the engine is just a weird concept. 2L of Turbo i4 ? What is this? A japanese Hatchback ? Its just weird for the size of this body. You could have probally saved money by using a cheap V8 instead of this expensive I4.

For testing i used a V8 60° with 4L

Welp

And this engine uses easier parts and produces 270hp/500NM

Oh by the way. A Roadster is normally a 2 door convertible and there are multiple ways of making a closed top an open :

Using some badgeplates :

Using some bumpers to simulate seams:

or both !

[undercoverhardwarema]

@Mikonp7

Also the engine is just a weird concept. 2L of Turbo i4 ? What is this? A japanese Hatchback ? Its just weird for the size of this body. You could have probally saved money by using a cheap V8 instead of this expensive I4.

I don’t know if you remember the 80s/early 90s, but they used to sell these plastic body kits to put on your Pontiac Fiero, that made it look like a Ferrari, or Lamborghini.

I haven’t completely fleshed out the lore of this company, but essentially it’s my euro brand. I made a M3 clone, and got roasted for such a large engine in European round. I made a version of this with my M3 engine (since the budget was higher), but instead submitted a ‘tax friendly’ 2.0 liter; this was included with the ad, as well as the disclaimer (in fine print of course). Essentially this brand has become a cheap knockoff.
As far as the lights, I see what you and vri404 were saying. I thought it made it look ‘exotic-ish’, but it definitely did not work, and especially since it got instabinned. I really like that you used the bumper bars to infer the pop-top (like in the kee engine version) I wish I had thought of that.
Thank you for the constructive input.

[undercoverhardwarema]

It looks blank
I’m still working on this, so I’m not uploading the car. But I’ve made a “super” car, that for purposes of the challenge is cheap, gets good gas mileage, and goes 200 mph (in this case, exactly).
It’s got multiple problems, that I’m trying to still fine tune, such as it tops out at 200.0 MPH, and has a 60 time of 3.5 seconds. The more I tinker with it, the more off kilter it gets (It started at 3.1 seconds but didn’t top 200 mph, I had it down to 3.0 seconds, but it only got 22 mpg, etc.)
The problems I want help with, is 1) this front end looks blank. I can’t really find a grille I like. and 2) Which color is more appropriate for a mid 00s super-car. I would be inclined to say red, but I personally find that boring. In Midnight Club, I used to always paint my cars gold, but some folks find that offensive.

[HighOctaneLove]

@undercoverhardwarema

In Midnight Club, I used to always paint my cars gold, but some folks find that offensive.

I paint all my cars blue. Some find that offensive, no doubt, but I like it so… Haters gonna hate?

Just repaint your competition cars in a more neutral hue if you’re worried about offending anyone!

[undercoverhardwarema]

For the Generations lore challenge, I created this limo, thanks to Corvette6317’s mod. It’s been a dream of mine since 4th grade. However, I already submitted a gas sucker the previous round, so I kept in in my back pocket.

Virgo - Limousine.car (25.5 KB)

So that’s nothing new. I submitted pretty much the same sentiment on my company lore thread. I brought it here to talk about some things I’ve done with this model since. In CSR76, DoritoDorito asked for a car, under $10k that was comfortable, easy to drive, and if it could not carry 3000 liters of cargo, it should carry 1000 liters and tow 1000 kg. I stripped down all of the luxury features, took out a row of seats, and put a smaller inline 6, and voila!

Stretched out completely with only 2 rows of seats, the limo can handle 1197 liters of cargo. The rear deck strangely has 66 kg of downforce; something that I’ve not gotten on other models. With no added safety, the limousine has a base safety rating of 30, which keeps it viable in most regions in the game, until the 1990s; also unprecedented.

Still, I was torn. I created 6 different cars with about a dozen different powertrains: A version of the Porter van seen near the top of this thread, the Vanagon that the others were using, a G-body wagon, thecarlover’s Bronco mod, and what I ultimately submitted, the Suburban.

[undercoverhardwarema]

I know it’s the early 1970s man, but come on!
So, I’m making a car for the fuel crisis. I don’t want it to be crazy uncomfortable, but you know, lore states that these cars were as plain jane AF. So I figure, I guess dealers could add their own options, they used to do that. What’s more 1970s than just about anything else? An eight track player! Seems to work, it drive comfort from a low 4 to a mid 10. Only thing is, this sucker weighs 62.7 kgs, 135 pounds. What’s worse, it adds nearly $900 to my material cost, and nearly $1400 to the final price tag. Further, it sacks my fuel economy and reliability to downright crap; which is not mentioning that now I have to add some brake back to it. OOF!

[VicVictory]

8 tracks weren’t actually standard on many vehicles, short of luxobarges. Even then, not often. Though they were often available as options, usually dealer-installed. Honestly, most middle-of-the-road cars had an AM radio with a single 4" or 4x6" speaker in the dash. An FM tuner and two speakers was ballin’ back then.

[undercoverhardwarema]

Yeah, I get that. I was just trying to give my eco box a little creature comfort

[undercoverhardwarema]

I’ve dubbed this car the Shoveit, for allusory purposes, but I’m sure if it had been finished, I would have come up with a classier, more marketable name. I wrote the lore on my Pegasus brand, before boxer engines were available, but I’m not sure without the proper retcon, anyone would get it; because the Pegasus Courier and Porter, are knock offs of VW Beetle and VW bus respectively, to the extreme of the Ford Model T. When I decided to put a box 4 in this car, rather than a straight 4, its sportiness went from 0 to 10. None of the cars I’ve described have ever been considered sporty, except the Super-Beetle

This was to be my entry to CSR81. I wanted a realistic story line that goes with the simplicity message of original lore. I just could not get it to my satisfaction. The file linked, would be a base model. Much like its real life inspiration, it would feature very little in creature comforts, and only 2 seats. Because the rules of the CSR, I concocted a story line, where the dealer added in all these options, but a dealer has to work a downright miracle to make this car comfortable.

Yes, I used a solid rear axle. I thought it’d be realistic. Even upgrading interior from Basic to Standard, with an AM radio, made it barely bearable (although as noted above, somehow an 8 track made a world of difference) Anything I tried, drove up the budget, and drove down the fuel economy (which really wasn’t that good at only 26 mpg)

Anyway, I spent too long fiddling with it, and it never got finished.

Pegasus - Shoveit.car (19.9 KB)

[undercoverhardwarema]

This was one of my creations. I started with a body that sort of looks like the 5th gen Camaro/Trans Am. I also put my Euro-spec M3 inspired engine in it; then I made a variant with a Lotus Carlton inspired engine (having never seen one in real life, I had to Wikipedia it). I got the HP numbers down, but the Torque is well short. Both engines got terrible MPGs, and it didn’t really matter which one I used, acceleration was about the same (Top speed was better with the 3.6) I couldn’t really think of a high end, lux, GT model that would be similar to this (I thought maybe the XK, but this would have been too early for that). I’ve included the .car file for the 3.6 version.

Model 1 - Trim 2 Clone Clone.car (24.1 KB)

I used a design for my M3 inspired car, even though this predates that design by 2 years. I tried turbo charging the 3.0 liter I-6, but all that did was sabotage the reliability, and improve the MPGs a little. I didn’t think it was really worth it, so I scrapped that, and went instead with a NA 5 liters V12. I also played with the lights, since I’ve never really done that before. Included are the original 3.0, and the submitted 5.0.

CSR82-UndercoverHardwareman - GThree Real.car (32.9 KB)
CSR82-UndercoverHardwareman - G5 by Giusseppe.car (33.6 KB)

[undercoverhardwarema]

CSR83 - One night in Bangkok [ENTRY IS OVER: Final Results has been published!]

Previous round General CSR Rules and Regulations 5th October 1986 Bangkok, Thailand [41814316_309763172942247_6711426230144466944_n] Phongbhan Manasak, he is a young student of (redacted) years, has gathered savings from Chinese new year gifts received from his parents is looking for some car to buy for impressing ladies at disco club named “The Palace” but the car must not be damn slow like his mother’s SBA Gracelet 1.4 Silkmatic, as he wants the car that he can express his adrenaline on …

All right. So I wanted to do something different for this one. Mostly since my first thought was to create a toyota celica supra-like vehicle, but that was already done. I wanted to do a fiero/mr2 like vehicle, but couldn’t make it driveable without staggering the wheels; plus the annual service costs were horrendous. I designed a Civic Si type vehicle, but I’m not sure that’s what I want to represent my brand. This was my alternate entry. I couldn’t get it to the minimum mandated speed of 180 km/h though, so I thought I’d leave it here.

CSR83-UndercoverHardwareman - Nagoya Sparrow Kei.car (20.6 KB)

Edit
I went back into this, to find that the overall length of the car, despite my shortening all the morphs, is 3.91 m; meaning technically not a Kei car, because of that overhang. But still, you could imagine.

[undercoverhardwarema]

When i wrote the lore to my Pegasus brand, boxer engines weren’t available. I haven’t completely fleshed out my Nagoya story yet, but I’m sure it’s going to involve splitting off from a well known manufacturer of rotary powered cars, seeking to make equally quirky, yet less problematic designs. In an earlier csr, (succeeding the wankel) I thought about establishing the company as a boxer heavy company; but I’d rather retcon Pegasus, since it was originally a value- cost leader/ import fighter, targeted specifically at Volkswagen.

The question I pose to the community is whether i should retcon Pegasus or not, and whether Nagoya should be the boxer heavy manufacturer or not.

• retcon Pegasus, and find a different story for Nagoya
• Leave Pegasus alone and make Nagoya a boxer heavy company
• Let both companies use boxer engines
• Don’t use boxer engines, they’re stupid

Show results

[DoctorNarfy]

That’s, uh, kinda the point of playing is so that you can choose these things on your own. Be creative, use that mind of yours perhaps. It’s a competition about creativity.

[undercoverhardwarema]

This would’ve been my alternate entry. I changed the name, because someone used GranTurismo in their ad, this is supposed to be a knockoff of GranTurismo, and what’s GranTurismo’s competition? Forza; so, there you go.
All joking aside, I really racked my brain on this one, because I think this one looks better, but the other has better stats (GQ, meaning Giusseppe Quattroporte); plus I was able to get full cladding on the GQ (helps with comfort, prestige, and gas mileage), at the expense of the staggered tyres. The Forza just didn’t look right without the staggered tyres, and I still couldn’t save enough for the cladding.
After this round is over, I will post the .car files, and I’ll unleash (had to nerf for regulation) the engine. In trying to stay true to the source material, I’ll likely make it more efficient, rather than more powerful.

According to websites I looked at, the Maseratti engine was 92.0x79.8 for 4244 cc and produced 395 hp (my goal for this project). Another website stated that compression for this engine was 11.0:1, but I just could not attain those numbers; instead, I upped the compression to 12.3. In order to get loudness below 35, I used a 3 way cat, instead of a high flow 3 way cat; again making it more difficult to attain (I had to raise AFR to 11.9). The end result, was an engine that got the desired hp numbers, but was 15.7% efficient. In the unleashed version, I tried to max out efficiency, and got to 18.9%; I could’ve done better, but peak hp had to be at 7,000 rpm. Anyway, this improved fuel economy from 12.8 on the Forza and 12.1 on the GQ, to 16 and 14.5 respectively (along with the cladding and 2+2 seating that it should’ve had all along). Another thing; since Maserattis are not too reliable IRL, I went with cast and low friction cast, over the lightweight forged in the submitted version.

After all of that, it was binned for its looks, rather than its technical merit (even though the fuel economy is a glaringly bad technical issue). The submitted vehicle was Italian racing green, with black spoke wheels, with body-matching rims (I regret nothing). I was trying out a ‘gun-metal’ type color, but thought it clashed a bit with the green.
I probably should have submitted the Forza, even as I was wrapping up the GQ, it seemed to say to me “Lexus LS” (Even Zmees said it looked like a snoozing Jag). Some fixtures I wanted to use, just didn’t work. I used the GranTurismo as the original design, and tried to port that over to the GQ, but in real life, the Quattroporte doesn’t look as exciting as I remembered it from 2007. Part of the design featured a modded grille, that doesn’t show in photo mode. The lights worked on the Forza, but not so much on the GQ (the alternative was a modded fixture ‘Cutouts’ and ‘Things’, which I just could not handle)

Submitted
GQ - Sedan.car (26.3 KB)
Forza - Giusseppe Forza.car (27.8 KB)

Unleashed
GQ - Unleashed.car (26.3 KB)
Forza - Unleashed.car (27.8 KB)

[undercoverhardwarema]

Pantheon XR
I haven’t fleshed out Pantheon’s lore, just yet, so I’m putting this here instead.

The XR-Red is a S80 R meets Integra meets WRX, and if I could have a double wing on the back, meets XR4Ti.
This was the competition version CSR87-UndercoverHardwareman - Pantheon XR-Red.car (26.5 KB)

This is the improved version, fixed according to host feedback (except for the red trim, that’s solid) meant to still adhere to challenge rules. Pantheon XR - Red.car (26.5 KB)