2015 Light Sports Car Challenge [results are here]

[pcmoreno]

2015 Light Sports Car challenge

The point:

• To make a race car in the mould of our beloved, the Mazda MX-5 Cup.
• There is no need to make a perfect replica, or even attempt one, that is not the point.
• The cars will be exported to BeamNg and that’s where most of the challenge will be completed.
• Extra prizes to the most “original” engine layouts

The scoring:

• (⅓) - Aesthetics voting based on the exported car in beamNG
• (⅓) - Lap time at Hirochi Medium
• (⅓) - Fun and drivability at the track. Judged by at least 3 good drivers. This is a judgement based not only on performance but also on consistency, handling and fun.

The Process:

• DM me the .car
• Model and Engine names should be 2015LSC-username. The trim and variant can be what you want. Example(Model + trim): 2015LSC-pcmoreno Winthorpe Meowta
• Deadline for submissions 16 September 2024 at 23:59 GMT

Pre-Selection:

• I don’t know how many entries there will be but a max of 10 cars will make it to the final scoring round.
• This selection will be done based on how the car looks and how the car feels on a track(things like: is it fast, does it spin out of control, do the brakes fade after one lap, is the gearing sane, etc).
• I will assemble a small jury of non participants to do this pre-selection.
• Cars that break the rules listed below will not even be considered, please double check them before submitting them, and if in doubt, ask questions beforehand.

Handy to know:

• At this Discord, there is a channel dedicated to this challenge where you can chat with other participants about ongoing work and ask questions in real time:
  Join the Discord here
  
• There is no min for power, only max, make use of it or the chances of passing pre-selection are very low
• Feel free to promote your car in this thread with photos, stats, videos, etc. The aesthetics voting will be public.
• There are no restrictions aesthetics wise, but you know by now who you’re up against so don’t slack too much(At least try to make an interior )

RULES

General:

• Techpool must be at 0
• Engine and Trim must be 2015
• Body must be convertible
• Quality sliders must be between -3 and +3
• Yes, a livery(with or without number) is required
• Advanced settings only allowed in order to move the engine bay walls and the chassis tunnel width.
• No open wheeled mod bodies.

Trim Rules:

• Min wheelbase 2.3 m
• Top gear at 200km/h
• Must have a manual or sequential gearbox with 6 gears
• Must be RWD
• No limiter
• Must have at least Fully Clad undertray
• Car must have a visible wing
• Front and Rear wing angles must be at least 75
• Max downforce = 200kg (front + rear combined)
• Wheel width max 205
• Tire compound must be radial race hard
• Safety must be advanced 10’s
• Must have detachable top
• Must have 2 full sized seats (next to each other)
• Interior must be Race
• At least Basic Infotainment entertainment
• Min weight 1000 Kg
• Max weight 1100 Kg
• Max material cost: 8000

Engine Rules:

• All engine layouts available(even V16)
• Fuel type, Unleaded 98
• No turbo
• Max material cost 2000
• Must have catalytic converter
• Must have at least one muffler
• No more than 3% of stress anywhere
• Max 200 Hp
• No Carbs(it’s 2015)

Inspiration from generative stuff:

Registrations so far:

basically a list of ppl who I know are working on something or have shown interested in participating.

• @Mausil (submitted .car)
• @azkaalfafa (submitted .car)
• @ctesiphon (submitted .car)
• @Ananas
• milan.smt
• NoLan (submitted .car)
• StigX24536
• Nocturne
• Catherine
• @Sealboi
• @KenShiro
• @machalel
• …

[abg7]

@pcmoreno

Must have detachable top

Must it also be a detachable hard top (in other words, a targa) or are detachable (soft) tops allowed?

@pcmoreno

At least Basic Infotainment entertainment

This is to simulate fitment of a radio (for communicating with pit crews).

@pcmoreno

No open wheeled mod bodies.

The legacy body sets should also be off limits, due to how broken and janky they tend to be.

@pcmoreno

Safety must be advanced 10’s

I’m assuming this is for simulating FIA-mandated safety gear.

@pcmoreno

Techpool must be at 0

@pcmoreno

Max material cost: 8000

@pcmoreno

Max material cost 2000

The combined material cost is thus 10000 (split 80:20 between trim and engine).

@pcmoreno

Must have catalytic converter

With the challenge being set in 2015, they should be of the 3-way kind.

I don’t see any PU/ET limits despite the requirement for 0 techpool everywhere - it would overcomplicate matters if those were implemented.

[MrdjaNikolen]

Im quoting one interested person that asked these questions upon finding out about this challenge

this is rather concerning
doesn’t this rule out a lot of bodies?
why do we only get material cost instead of amu?
why are we literally just making miatas

[pcmoreno]

@abg7

Must it also be a detachable hard top (in other words, a targa) or are detachable (soft) tops allowed?

soft tops also allowed indeed. As long as they’re detachable

@abg7

I don’t see any PU/ET limits despite the requirement for 0 techpool everywhere - it would overcomplicate matters if those were implemented.

There won’t be any limits to PU or ET, just for material costs to set a logical approximate max cost. Techpool also limits besides ET, what choices can be made and also how much the material costs are.

@abg7

With the challenge being set in 2015, they should be of the 3-way kind.

Definitely if it would be a road car. But since it’s a race car, any will do. I’m expecting everyone will go for the 3way high flow anyway.

you are correct with the rest of the assumptions

[Hilbert]

@pcmoreno

Techpool must be at 0

Why? We are making semi-modern sports cabriolets based on the MX-5 Cup. I would propose a set TP budget limit, but if that’s too much at least leave it at default 5.

@pcmoreno

Quality sliders must be between -3 and +3

This should be replaced by a simple “no minmaxxing” rule. I don’t think quality slider limitations are a good idea. I often have more than 3 quality points in my cars.

@pcmoreno

• Top gear at 200km/h
• Must have a manual or sequential gearbox with 6 gears
• Must be RWD

@pcmoreno

Must have at least Fully Clad undertray

@pcmoreno

• Front and Rear wing angles must be at least 75
• Max downforce = 200kg (front + rear combined)
• Wheel width max 205
• Tire compound must be radial race hard
• Safety must be advanced 10’s
• Must have detachable top
• Must have 2 full sized seats (next to each other)
• Interior must be Race
• At least Basic Infotainment entertainment
• Min weight 1000 Kg
• Max weight 1100 Kg

Then there’s the entire rest of the rules? Why is there min and max weight and why on earth do we only have 100kg of wiggle room? This ruleset is extremely restrictive. This does not feel like we’re making MX-5 esque cars. This feels like we’re literally making the MX-5 Cup. Such strict weight limitations also rule out several bodies.

And as some pointed out in Discord,

Yeah, it is really odd.

@pcmoreno

Max material cost: 8000

Why are we using material cost, instead of the approx cost that you can see in detail stats?

@pcmoreno

Engine Rules:

• All engine layouts available(even V16)
• Fuel type, Unleaded 98
• No turbo
• Max material cost 2000
• Must have catalytic converter
• Must have at least one muffler
• No more than 3% of stress anywhere
• Max 200 Hp
• No Carbs(it’s 2015)

Then there’s the engine rules! Some of these makes sense, like the no carbs rule. But other than that, this is quite limited. At least you didn’t limit the engine size to minimum 1500cc and maximum 1800cc, I suppose.

Why do I have to use 98 RON? Why are turbos prohibited? There are plenty of 2015 sports cars with a turbo.

I can understand a max material cost, but it still does feel quite pointless.

Why not mandate a 3-way catalytic converter? Or alternatively a minimum WES number we have to pass? Yeah, this is a sports car, but a sports car with 2-way cat is not road legal in 2015.

The stress rule I understand, it makes perfect sense.

Why max 200hp? I feel like the entire car has already been engineered for me. This leaves no room for imagination. If you don’t want overly powerful cars, limit the amount of cylinders we’re allowed to have. Say, max 6-cyl engines.

[ctesiphon]

@Hilbert

@pcmoreno

Techpool must be at 0

Why? We are making semi-modern sports cabriolets based on the MX-5 Cup. I would propose a set TP budget limit, but if that’s too much at least leave it at default 5.

It doesn’t matter if it’s 0, 5 or 15 if everyone uses the same thing. I agree, that default would be easier.

@Hilbert

@pcmoreno

Quality sliders must be between -3 and +3

This should be replaced by a simple “no minmaxxing” rule. I don’t think quality slider limitations are a good idea. I often have more than 3 quality points in my cars.

“No minmaxxing” rule is not a rule. You either set a limit, or there will be -15 on half of the options.

@Hilbert

Then there’s the entire rest of the rules? Why is there min and max weight and why on earth do we only have 100kg of wiggle room? This ruleset is extremely restrictive. This does not feel like we’re making MX-5 esque cars. This feels like we’re literally making the MX-5 Cup. Such strict weight limitations also rule out several bodies.

• Purpose of min weight is to prohibit people like me from submitting a 400 kg car.
• Purpose of max weight is to prohibit trolls to submit a 4000 kg car.
• The wiggle room is irrelevant. Your car will weigh 1000 kg.
• The ruleset doesn’t restrict you at all when it comes to the actual point of this competition’s engineering, which is to make a car which handles perfectly.
• Btw you can do a mid engine car (which literally isn’t a MX-5 Cup).

@Hilbert

And as some pointed out in Discord,

Yeah, it is really odd.

The max downforce limit rule doesn’t need explatation, I hope. Practical downforce minimum is 200 kg.

@Hilbert

Why are we using material cost, instead of the approx cost that you can see in detail stats?

IMHO, it’s easier to work with because you don’t need to switch to the details screen all of the time.

@Hilbert

Why do I have to use 98 RON?

• It’s usually reasonable to set a fuel type rule, unless you want people to submit cars filled with nitromethane.

@Hilbert

I can understand a max material cost, but it still does feel quite pointless.

The point is to force some decision making about chosen parts/quality into play.

@Hilbert

Why not mandate a 3-way catalytic converter? Or alternatively a minimum WES number we have to pass? Yeah, this is a sports car, but a sports car with 2-way cat is not road legal in 2015.

Track car needn’t be road legal.

@Hilbert

Why max 200hp?

Much easier BoP when compared to P/W.

@Hilbert

I feel like the entire car has already been engineered for me. This leaves no room for imagination. If you don’t want overly powerful cars, limit the amount of cylinders we’re allowed to have. Say, max 6-cyl engines.

Most of the rules simply set the BoP. Your task is to engineer the handling the best you can. Your options are quite unrestrained in that regard.

Furthermore, cylinders don’t have much to do with power, displacement and turbo max pressure does. Not to mention that B4 is probably the meta and you can enjoy a lot of time engineering an NA engine to get the perfect power curve.

[thpethalk]

Deadline date?

[Mausil]

there seems to be impossible to put the last gear at exactly 200 kmh, but it let me put 198 kmh, is that ok?

[Mausil]

can the windows be opaque?

[Mausil]

Reveriata special 200

[Panodi]

are interiors mandatory?

[Hilbert]

@ctesiphon

It doesn’t matter if it’s 0, 5 or 15 if everyone uses the same thing. I agree, that default would be easier.

It matters for realism’s sake

@ctesiphon

“No minmaxxing” rule is not a rule. You either set a limit, or there will be -15 on half of the options.

At which point the car gets binned, because -15 is obviously minmaxxing.

@ctesiphon

• Purpose of min weight is to prohibit people like me from submitting a 400 kg car.
• Purpose of max weight is to prohibit trolls to submit a 4000 kg car.
• The wiggle room is irrelevant. Your car will weigh 1000 kg.
• The ruleset doesn’t restrict you at all when it comes to the actual point of this competition’s engineering, which is to make a car which handles perfectly.
• Btw you can do a mid engine car (which literally isn’t a MX-5 Cup).

Trolls go to the bin, and to curb 400kg cars, you can add a price limit. This makes choosing carbon fibre panels impossible, as they’re quite expensive.

The wiggle room is NOT irrelevant. If I want to make a track car that weights 1400kg but has an engine that makes more power than 200hp, then why shouldn’t I? This restrictive ruleset doesn’t allow that.

I can also do an RR car, the MX-5 Cup isn’t RR. Such a noble move from the host to allow this. I wouldn’t have issue if only FR cars were allowed, and the engine layout was never mentioned in my initial post.

@ctesiphon

IMHO, it’s easier to work with because you don’t need to switch to the details screen all of the time.

I— Just— What???

@ctesiphon

Track car needn’t be road legal.

I thought we were making sport cars? I mean, the title is 2015 Light Sports Car Challenge.

@ctesiphon

Much easier BoP when compared to P/W.

Indeed, so let’s ditch that entirely and instead limit the engine size to be max 6 cylinders. If someone sends in a 7.8L twin turbo V6, you again bin them under the no minmaxxing rule. Or you could even add some rule about the design having to be realistic.

@ctesiphon

Most of the rules simply set the BoP. Your task is to engineer the handling the best you can. Your options are quite unrestrained in that regard.

My options are NOT quite unrestrained in any regard. Literally every other challenge on this site has less restrictive ruleset. Take a stroll down the Challenges Boulevard and come back once you find something with more restrictive ruleset.

[ctesiphon]

@Hilbert

It matters for realism’s sake

I don’t care for realism, so I won’t argue with you about that

@Hilbert

At which point the car gets binned, because -15 is obviously minmaxxing.

Allow me to rephrase. You need to set definite boundaries in quality, because “no minmaxxing” doesn’t exactly tell you, where is the limit.

@Hilbert

Trolls go to the bin, and to curb 400kg cars, you can add a price limit. This makes choosing carbon fibre panels impossible, as they’re quite expensive.

There already is a price limit and I think that I could pull off like 700-750 kg car.

@Hilbert

The wiggle room is NOT irrelevant. If I want to make a track car that weights 1400kg but has an engine that makes more power than 200hp, then why shouldn’t I? This restrictive ruleset doesn’t allow that.

That doesn’t make sense. It’s like going to FIA and saying “Hey, I want to homologate my 1800 kg, 430 hp car for Rally2, it has the same P/W ratio as other cars.”

@Hilbert

I can also do an RR car, the MX-5 Cup isn’t RR. Such a noble move from the host to allow this. I wouldn’t have issue if only FR cars were allowed, and the engine layout was never mentioned in my initial post.

So you do realize that you aren’t obliged to make an MX-5.

@Hilbert

@ctesiphon

IMHO, it’s easier to work with because you don’t need to switch to the details screen all of the time.

I— Just— What???

In Automation, you can always see your material costs on the left panel. If you want to look up the approximate cost, you need to go all the way to the summary page and look for the details tab. When optimizing a car, it’s much more convenient just to track material cost, PU and ET.

@Hilbert

I thought we were making sport cars? I mean, the title is 2015 Light Sports Car Challenge.

I agree that the title is little misleading. It should be more like Light Track Car Challenge.

@Hilbert

Indeed, so let’s ditch that entirely and instead limit the engine size to be max 6 cylinders. If someone sends in a 7.8L twin turbo V6, you again bin them under the no minmaxxing rule. Or you could even add some rule about the design having to be realistic.

Again, number of cylinders doesn’t have anything to do with power output. I can make you a 500 hp sub 1 litre three cylinder if you wish. But then again, this challenge is about comparing handling, not straight line speed.

@Hilbert

My options are NOT quite unrestrained in any regard.

The only rules about handling are:

• Car must have a visible wing
• Front and Rear wing angles must be at least 75
• Max downforce = 200kg (front + rear combined)
• Wheel width max 205
• Tire compound must be radial race hard

That’s like nothing when it comes to the actual tuning.

@Hilbert

Literally every other challenge on this site has less restrictive ruleset. Take a stroll down the Challenges Boulevard and come back once you find something with more restrictive ruleset.

I personally have no problem with restrictive rulesets and minmaxxing is the thing I enjoy in Automation the most. If you have a problem with it, then be glad that you can choose to compete in a challenge with vaguer rules where you can roleplay better. It’s good to have a little variety in the challenges so that people may participate in whatever fits them the best.

[Hilbert]

This is going nowhere. This feels like a discord challenge, and I don’t like discord challenges. Best of luck to anyone who chooses to enter this challenge.

[Sealboi]

it’s going nowhere because you’re not letting it go anywhere lmao

what does “feels like a discord challenge” even mean? i’ve been in plenty and hosted some myself and all of them had vastly varying ruleset

[Hilbert]

@Sealboi

it’s going nowhere because you’re not letting it go anywhere lmao

I’m sorry, but what does pointless back and worth achieve? I am not even talking with the host, I am arguing about the rules with some random guy. I am not letting it go anywhere because I value my time.

@Sealboi

what does “feels like a discord challenge” even mean? i’ve been in plenty and hosted some myself and all of them had vastly varying ruleset

Good for you, I’ll give you a medal when you come over. You truly deserve it.

[pcmoreno]

It’s on the first post

@pcmoreno

Deadline for submissions 16 September 2024 at 23:59 GMT

[pcmoreno]

@pcmoreno

There are no restrictions aesthetics wise, but you know by now who you’re up against so don’t slack too much(At least try to make an interior )

Not mandatory but very much advisable

[pcmoreno]

the slider there does indeed jump, but you can also directly type in the value in the text box next to it. maybe that helps

[pcmoreno]

No