24h - La Marche 1960 [Results]

browse around and like some posts first. the forum has some built in measure to keep new accounts from instantly coming in and spamming things to keep bot accounts out.

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thanks, that is good to know.
would be sad if i came here last minute only not to be able to send the car :slight_smile:

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Should there be some regulations regarding tire size? To avoid things like this?

Hm, I certainly would classify this as a meme entry… Does this have any advantages performance-wise?

I haven’t done enough testing to say with certainty it is the very best strategy, but the extra tire width is probably advantageous. Some bodies allowing a very large diameter tire means that the typical width limitations of crossply aren’t at play. These tires are 375 wide, and can be shrunk to fit back inside the car’s fenders with the advanced trim settings.

I added a max. tire width section to severely restrict the potential abuse. It should be fine now, as you do not have any benefit from larger tire profiles (afaik).

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FWIW, extensive research has given me answers to the largest sizes available at the time (1959, but nothing new appeared until 1963). Radials for on-road use were available up to 185/80R16 (plus a very slightly bigger metric size, and slightly bigger still with aggressive off-road tread) - Pirelli CA67 were on the market since 1952, and Michelin X since 1948.

Cross-ply tires I’m slightly less certain about, but sizes in 1960 appear to top out at roughly 205/80R16.

With less confidence, the gist I got from the same research says rims larger than 17", widths larger than 235, and profiles 60 and lower didn’t exist (as far as reasonably normal road car tires) until the mid-70s.

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Thanks for the research! So with the current rules I am probably just a bit less restrictive than in reality. I think it is fine.

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I’ll add my impression from researching radials in particular (for CSR155): while exotic on the US civilian market, they were nothing radical in Europe. The lowly 2CV came with them standard since '48. GT cars such as AM, Jaguar, and Ferrari routinely had them fitted as unofficial options. Something the caliber and with the budget of a LeMans participant wouldn’t’ve thought twice about using them… if the car was designed for it.

Tradition, manufacturing techniques, and general social inertia were much of the reason they took forever to be adopted, but another component was that they interact with steering geometry in a qualitatively different way, and car suspensions had to be redesigned to properly work with them. Once so redesigned, however, they have almost no drawbacks over cross-plies, at least for on-road use.

Yeah I’ll stick with the “cross ply only” rule. I don’t want to change the rules massively anymore at this point, and I really think it makes the tire compound choice more interesting.

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Fair enough, though this challenge would’ve been especially suitable for conditionally allowing radials - the rules are partly in terms of engineering time, which is the main true cost they would’ve incurred in 1960.

I have a car ready that’d be perfect for the GT class, but it’s a 3.0m wheelbase, and there’s no advantage to a longer one here, is there?

You definitely can use all the fuel tank capacity with this large footprint. But it is probably a bit too large to be the very best choice. Depends on how competitive you want to be.

Creating a race car is so hard, I got my speed up super high, but now my drivability and reliablity are super low. :frowning:
By the way, I noticed not a mention of brakes in the rules, so will brake fade have any affect on the calculations?

No, no effect of brake fade other than its effect on drivability.

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Are we allowed to make an early 60s muscle car for an entry? i want to use this body but it wont let me use less than 4 body in the tech tree

you’re only allowed +2 in body techpool. however there should be some good american ish proto-muscle car bodies available at that point.

The corvette was at le man’s 1960 so that should at least be feasible

In general, early 60s muscle car is fine, but you can only work with the available bodies (including the ones unlocking with the +2 techpool).

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While radial tires existed, the technology was not honed yet, and racing tires would remain cross ply for quite some time. Formula 1, certainly near to if not the absolute pinnacle of motorsport, did not see the use of a radial tire until 1979. Michelin’s earliest offering of any racing-oriented radial was 1972.

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Just another quick question, because tech pool and quality sliders are giving me a headache (first time creating a car for a challenge).

The most notable example is Drivetrain (in Sports category): 2 points of tech pool are used to unlock Semi Clad undertray (I believe); this means I can use the quality slider up to +3?
In other areas, following this criterion, I could be able to get +5 quality, granted I stay below PU/ET limits of course.