Pinging @karhgath because I forgot a letter.
I opted in to having my cars releases btw, I put it in the message with my car that I resent
CENTURION 7400
Every truck in that Centara dealership got there on the back of a Centurion truck
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shitshitshit i need to get this out
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muricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamuricamurica
1964 Mercer Lancaster 365
A FANCY LUXURY CAR WONT STOP US FROM TYPING IN ALL CAPS
THERE IS NO BETTER WAY TO DO LUXURY THAN WITH A GIANT LAND BARGE WITH A MASSIVE V8 MOTOR. BUT THE ONLY ONES WHO KNOW HOW TO DO IT WELL ARE THE AMERICANS, AND NOW WE HAVE MADE IT SO DAMN CHEAP THAT EVEN THAT DYING HOBO ON THE STREET CAN BUY ONE. SO GET YOUR ASS DOWN TO YOUR LOCAL MERCER DEALER AND BUY THE ALL NEW LANCASTER ALREADY. THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS AMERICA.
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Aaaaand round 2 is closed! Judging will come soon.
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bugger
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There are no instabins or questionable cars. You are all legal. Worst it gets is missing a space in the name. Good job! That brings us to…
REVIEWS 2.1: CRAFT WORK
Reviews for:
@donutsnail - Cabirou Bolero GT 313
@Edsel - Centara ABM8
@Fayeding_Spray - WCV MMOV V8
@Mikonp7 - Renwoo Merci Van
@Prium - Fitz C900
@kobacrashi - Reduit WK4
@GassTiresandOil - Armor Valencia Country
@Ldub0775 - Centurion 7400
(Hover over images for captions, or tap and hold on mobile. Captions read left to right.)
NB: This section is solely from the commercial, rational buyer’s point of view. Two cars here - the Cabirou and Armor - will be covered elsewhere as well.
Last decade, the biggest demon of the utility segment was insufficient cargo capacity. I am pleased to say that this has been rectified… somewhat. Let’s start at the bottom - both in terms of capacity and in terms of perceptions by the end of this era.
Let’s start at the beginning. Renwoo attempted to negotiate a deal to sell vans to the Aragan government. Here was their reaction:
Car: Renwoo Merci Van
Benefits: Low procurement cost, easy to service, easy to drive, good fuel economy.
Drawbacks: Limited cargo space, limited cargo capacity - larger fleet needed.
Key concerns: Derived from Renwoo Merci, uses same non-rustproofed chassis. Prone to crank wear and stress.
Being based on the Renwoo Merci, the inevitable rust issues of the chassis of the Merci Van were well known. This, plus the 840kg cargo capacity, drove the postal service away from the Merci - they’d need a larger, much more rust-prone fleet. The small engine of the Merci was beneficial to the average, tax-paying consumer, but the postal service already pays no tax - and that engine didn’t have any headroom for wear in the long run.
Which, of course, brings us to the average tax-paying consumer. And there, if you didn’t quite need a large cargo capacity or volume? The Merci got outclassed. It was cheap, economical and cute, but… It wasn’t quite cheap enough or economical enough to break through the competition. Or to break through its own flaws. Two basic, uncomfortable seats. No radio. No power steering. Nearly no cargo capacity. Every other car on the market offers at least a basic radio, and only the Reduit has similarly uncomfortable seats. Work cars can’t coast by on cute.
In a way, it’s lucky that the Merci wasn’t a big seller. That evaluation by the postal service wasn’t the only document written by the government on this car. The Merci was the poster child for unsafe cars, as this report from 1962 reveals.
In selling the Merci, Renwoo has been grossly negligent. By the time of its release, every other manufacturer was making efforts to test their cars for impact protection, and features such as safety glass and sash belts were present in just about every car… except the Merci. There is a flagrant and cavalier disregard for occupant safety in the Merci. In an attempt to undercut the competition, Renwoo cut corners and produced a massive risk to human life. We recommend the strongest possible actions against Renwoo for selling this car.
From one failure in the commercial segment to another, but for very different reasons. The Cabirou Bolero GT 313 also has a low cargo capacity, only 880kg. It at least manages to have decent safety features… But its features end up as an albatross around the neck, at least for a commercial buyer. It has a phonograph, a flashy premium interior and tyres designed more for spirited driving than for hard work. All of this adds up to a high price tag spent on things that don’t matter tons in your work truck - you’ll be out for 25 grand, and you’ll be paying massive servicing and tax costs thanks to that fancy interior and the big, brawny V8. Of course, I think Cabirou knew this. Why else would they put GT in the name? Why else would it look so cool and sporty? This is not solely a car for business. It’s a car for pleasure, and it’ll be reviewed as such… later.
Now, for something big - the Centara ABM8. It’s absolutely massive. It chews through fuel. It carries 3 tonnes of cargo, in plenty of space. To the buyers of 1960, it seemed marginally less safe due to fewer safety features - but once reports came out, it actually proved to be safer. A big, grunty V8 ensures that the car can haul whatever you need. The biggest flaw is massive brake fade, with no cooling on the brakes to alleviate the issue. It has a massive, enclosed cargo area, and the mechanics to back it up. No, it doesn’t look elegant, interesting or good in any way… But it’s a box truck. What do you expect me to say?
Now, for a slight detour offroad. Three cars were eligible for the offroad tax credit - the Armor Valencia Country, the Reduit WK4 and the WCV MMOV V8. The Armor, however, just barely scrapes into this category. The Armor gets through largely on technicality, thanks to its 4x4 drivetrain and its manual locker… But it’s a wagon with a pretty long wheelbase and rear overhang. Trying to take it offroad will lead to issues with breakover and departure angle. If you’re buying it for offroad capabilities, you’ll probably be disappointed and should look elsewhere. If you’re buying it for the premium interior and the solid driving dynamics… Well, that’s for another section.
The Reduit, meanwhile? Well, it has some solid offroad chops… But that’s about it. For this market, it’s stuck between the Fitz and the MMOV. The Fitz gives marginally worse offroad, but equal driving dynamics, similar cost and far, far better cargo capacity. The MMOV is a little worse at driving and more expensive, but it’s so much better offroad. And if you don’t care about offroading? There’s tons of better options elsewhere. Thanks to not featuring full rear seats, and only featuring a basic interior, it’s not at all comfortable - in fact, it is the least comfortable car in this round. It’s not the cheapest though, not at all. And in a country becoming more and more urbanised, with paved, well-maintained roads? Why do you need that offroading capacity, at so many other costs?
And that brings us to the MMOV… Which is a lot like the Stovepipe from last round. Yes, it has a nice big tray… But the offroad suspension means you’ll run into issues if you try and load it up heavily. The springs are so, so very soft. They have plenty of travel, sure, but you’ll use it up quickly. It only carries a little more than the Stovepipe. Maybe they could’ve used stiffer springs to get 2 tonnes of cargo capacity at a minor cost to offroad - or maybe they could’ve used progressive springs to get 2.5 tonnes with no cost to offroad or to the consumer. But hey, if you really need to get it there? The MMOV is there for you. This made it very, very popular on the plantations, to move logs around. Having rough driving dynamics, way too much wheelspin and way too much brake fade - with no efforts to lessen it - damaged consumer opinions of the car too, expecially given how people’s opinions are from last era.
And that brings us to our final option. The Fitz C900. And this is the car that just takes the lunch of every other car in the segment. Let’s go through the comparisons, shall we?
First, we compare it to the Renwoo. Well, it only costs 3000 more - with actual stuff in the interior. Then, we compare it to the Centara. It carries more. Ok, compare it to the MMOV… It’s competent offroad, too. It doesn’t have as much power in the engine as I would’ve liked, and it has massive brake fade despite the massive cooling ducts - because it’s hard to avoid with 3 tonnes in the back. Running costs and purchase costs are low enough that it doesn’t matter that it’s so uncomfortable. It makes money.
Finally, ldub has made a car I am unsure how to judge, stats-wise. Why? Well… Carrying capacity doesn’t matter here. Towing capacity is borked. Wheelspin… I guess I can halve it? Cost should go up even more… Automation is not designed for making 6-axle semi trucks. The massive engine, at the very least, is a work of art. 7.4 litres of V8 muscle. Yes, it’s expensive. Especially when you add the duallies and the extra axle. Yes, it’s absolutely huge… But you can spot it on most highways, hauling other cars, hauling logs, whatever. It’s a truck’s truck. It’s an icon, it’s the standard for a semi truck. Centurion makes incredibly specific cars for incredibly specific markets… But when you need someone with one, you hope they have a Centurion.
OOC Notes:
- Well, finally we have some decent carrying capacity. Both the Centara and the Fitz give well over 3 tonnes of carrying capacity. Sure, they aren’t at all comfortable, but work cars don’t have to be.
- The MMOV just needed progressive springs to do well. I know why you ran soft springs, for offroad - but that killed the cargo capacity.
- The Cabirou is a sports car, not a work car. It has over 10 sportiness - you know, what I used as the threshold for sports cars last time.
- I’m not penalising the Renwoo that much for keeping the same family, untreated chassis and all… But what did you expect, making a deathtrap right before safety reports came out?
- I’m not sure who the market is for the Reduit. Araga has dense cities and good highways. It can’t carry enough to be used for work. It’s not comfortable enough to be a good commuter car. It’s not cheap enough to be a shitbox. Why? Oh right, I remember why - you submitted then got bonked by a patch but were away from your PC. But still, why make such a basic offroader in a market where basic offroaders aren’t great?
- I’ll add comments on aesthetics for the offroaders and Fitz later, I forgot to review those but need some rest.
Key Impacts:
- All the entries, from both this round and last round, have great reliability. People expect good reliability in their work trucks going forward.
- The MMOV’s worse driving dynamics and massive wheelspin have worsened the opinion of offroad cars. The Reduit and Armor aren’t helping either.
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As a little bit of advance warning…
Performance intakes, currently, are rather broken. They massively increase noise; enough to the point that 2x reverse flow mufflers+perf high is louder than 1x baffled+std mid. As a result of this making certain things very difficult to judge, I am currently inclined to ban performance and race intakes from ALC3, so that I have usable loudness numbers. Sadly, this also bans DCOE. I am open to opinions and discussion here; it’s not a done deal.
Edit: This isn’t a lobbying thing, btw. This is rules discussion outside the challenge, for reasons outside the challenge.
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TBH, the loudness numbers does not say much. In 4.1 they were pretty straightforward, with most normal engines in the 30s. But now, as you say, performance intakes raise them by pretty much, too much compared to what they should be.
Since there is not much that can be done to make an engine quieter more than the right choice of mufflers and intake, I would do so, that as long as intakes are totally borked, I would not care about numbers at all, just require the car to be fitted with muffler/s. Maybe a compromise could be that 2 mufflers is needed with perf. intake, otherwise only one. To me it is not much of a problem TBH so my suggestion is to not make it one. I can see the point behind making the car fit a noise regulation, sure, but IMO that needs that noise number to be somewhat reliable and not like today, just out in the blue.
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Well, as a guy who produces low-revving American cars, I am not very affected - literally every performance intake is worse at my engine speeds. However, I disagree with banning them, especially with how that messes up DCOEs. The loudness stat is really just a big nothing burger, and all you can do with it is introduce a frankly boring “noise regulation” mechanic that I don’t think many people here will enjoy working with. Simply proceed as we usually would: sports intakes on high-revving sports cars are justified, a sports intake on a commuter car is an instabin.
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Hmm, as someone who uses sports intakes on the Celer line, I’m a little conflicted. Yes, the numbers are borked and meaningless, so I completely agree with Knugcab and Texaslav that they could just be ignored. Banning them does put a rather large restriction on our engineering choices, which I think is not desirable in this challenge.
On the other hand, noise levels do have a noticeable effect on comfort levels, and disproportionately disadvantage the exact market I am targeting with the Celer - comfortable and sporty GT cars. In the current state, a high-revving sports engine does kill some of the comfort - more than it realistically should. And I understand that to evaluate these cars “as they should be” if the intake noise wasn’t broken, you have kinda look past the noise and interpolate a higher comfort if the intakes weren’t broken (or put in a std intake to see the difference in comfort level). This could be a lot of work for you to check each car that uses perf intakes. While I salute this option, being one of the affected manufacturers, I do understand that this is a lot of unnecessary work.
The alternate is to simply ignore the noise numbers from a regulatory point of view, and simply let the people that submit cars with them fitted to just take the comfort hit. Sucks, but that is a risk that we then take.
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I agree with others that thy shouldn’t be outright banned, but rather than having to just “deal with it,” we might be able to find a way to work around it.
Maybe, for example, you could mentally subtract 10-20 points of loudness when grading cars with performance-intakes? Or perhaps you could switch to a standard-mid intake when grading comfort and loudness, while keeping the stock performance intake for the rest of the stats?
That’s the same problem I faced in QFC3, where one entry had a performance intake, and missed out on the top 3 due to the resulting loudness increase - a shame considering how good it was in all other aspects.
1 Like
Aww, are we talking about me? <3
The issue here is that loudness is not just some stat somewhere in the engine. No engine stat is. It has run-on effects for comfort and sportiness. So the options are:
- do nothing and have loudness meaningless and impossible to judge
- subtract some loudness but leave other stats as they are, cars still end up kinda borked
- manually re-calculate what sportiness and comfort would be with different loudness, doable thanks to the details screen
- ban it, reducing the options in one section ever so slightly
Fudging the numbers is either a bandaid that leaves some stuff wonky, or way too much effort.
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I know this would put a lot of extra work in your lap, but wanting the best for Celer - I vote for option 3 if you offer it willingly.
I didn’t realize loudness impacted sportiness as well, thanks for the tip. Yeah, I’d vote for option 3 if it were a vote, but I understand why that might be implausible. (I secondarily vote for option 1 if 3 can’t be.)
Edit: Also, have the game’s devs made any statement regarding this bug? I realize it’s impractical for them to talk about every small issue they’re dealing with, but it’d be nice to know if they’ve mentioned this one somewhere.
If someone else can find an easy way to go from noise (and some other small list of variables) to how much the % modifier in detailed stats is impacted, I’ll consider it. If I can simulate it on my spreadsheet, I’ll consider it. If I have to actually toggle settings on cars to find out… Nope.
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