BRC 1955 - The Golden Age [Qualifying R5]

Thanks for the links everyone! The automobile catalog I actually found last night while trying to find some information on 1957 engines. Up until now I was using SOHC and DOHC engines in my car company for some reason, even though I have only released cars from 1945 to 1952 so far. I was going for a realistic car company so I was looking around for specs on 1957 engines and found that site, it is INCREDIBLY useful. Replicated the 1957 “blue flame” I6 from Chevy and tweaked settings for more power and better efficiency for my upcoming 1957 lineup. I must have missed where the tire information was when I was poking around the Bel Air’s last night.

Another question I have, as I am not sure where to post it, how do people generally go about determining a good price for their cars in their car companies? After some thinking I have decided to use the following system for my company, but I am not sure if there is another way that most people use or something.

I will being assuming that all prices shown in Automation are shown in 2010 money (when the game was made). Therefore, prices will need to be adjusted for whichever time period I am building in. For example, my if my new 1957 car has a total cost of $8,500 I will first multiple the total cost by the number of production units, in the form of a percentage. (110.83 production units = 1.1083%) So my first calculation will give me a true total car cost of $9,420.55 in 2010 money. Then I adjust for inflation and get a car that would cost $1,204 in 1957 money. The average price of a car in 1957 was $2,100, so I can sell mine for around that average price and still have a large amount of profit. It seems like I could abuse sliders fairly easily and still have a decent profit margin though so I will try to limit myself to no less than an 80% profit margin.

Thoughts, help, advice?

Total cost includes the cost of the production units i.e. labor - I think they’re priced at about $35 per. What a lot of people do is assume something between double the per-car production cost and several times the production cost, depending on how high-tech the car is and how high-volume a model it is.

Oh ok, the production units have a set value and is included in the total cost… hmmm makes my 1957 car pretty cheap with a decent amount of sliders in use, guess I’ll limit myself to a minimum 100% profit on each car.

Yes, sale prices are though to determine. As long as we do not have the tycoon part of the game going it is difficult to determine the sale price as we do not know how heavy production units weigh and how much tech and marketing would cost. A supercar that takes roughly 300-400 production units and 50,000 dollars to build in game, might go for anything between 100,000-400,000 dollars IMO.

Indeed, like packbat said, this is dependent on the tech and volume of the car. Limited Editions will likely also go for much more, providing it suits the market demand. High volume mass production cars might even go for much less and 100% profit margin. Maybe a 25%-50% profit margin is enough for those to be viable for a company. Also when using the same engines multiple times in different models one might also be able to offer a good car more cheaply to the market. In the end for pricing products all that matters is what you think you can ask for such a car and what the competition offers and how much you are willing to sell. You might want to offer a car relatively cheap, but if you do not have the infrastructure to meet the demand you might hurt yourself more than necessary. For example, AMC had this issue in real life, the Pacer was hyped in the beginning. This caused huge orders to stack-up and stressed the modest production capabilities of AMC, but by the time they expanded to meet the demand the hype was over and the project resulted in a huge failure and ultimately directly initiated the downfall of the already weak company.

Automation prices are in “money units”

I imagine the price is somewhat related to real life at some point in history, but I don’t exactly know when.

As for the selling price compared to the production costs, one thing not to forget is that engineering costs and tooling costs can be very expensive.

And since those are split between the cars that you make, they will be a larger percentage of your costs in the case of low volume cars.

Is it just me or is all of this very out of topic?

Yeah, probably… but I wasn’t sure where to post these questions exactly (general forum, car building forum?) and I knew people in this thread are active. Got some good advice and information so no harm no foul I think :slight_smile:

I’ll take the blame for this one - I started in on the subject of using the car review videos to learn more about Automation, and I think that’s what broached the subject.

(On which note: I will probably dedicate a few hours this week to looking at the entire field for interesting data, but no more than that - I want to update to the current build and start making V6s!)

It’s just you. :smiley:

So that was the final review and my car wasn’t there. Oh well, I guess I’ll use the race to figure out how good mine is haha

Thanks for doing the reviews. I just got around to watching the whole thing. I’m happy my “American Muscle Car” could provide such wonderful entertainment for everybody. :smiley:

So, keep in mind, with my car…the engine is a real world recreation of a SBC 265 V8. Bore/Stroke are fixed based on the engine and everything had to be tuned around it to meet hp/kg restrictions. In it’s untamed, original form, it produced more than 270hp! I also did not know about the safety thing/glitch/cheat (whatever you want to call it). Safety was nerfed to -15 because I just didn’t care about safety. A special thanks for the pointers I got from Absurdist, who showed me a few things I didn’t know in suspensions and drivetrain. My engines are rock solid. My chassis’ suck hairy green monkey balls, however. :wink: After watching the reviews, I learned a lot more. Next time do the reviews before the final submission! hahaha

It was really fun to watch the reviews, and learn a thing or two.
Thing is, I tried to do a “real” car, not just the lightest “gocart with a body” as most were doing.
Gonna be a real nail-biter to watch the races.

That i got such good response to the styling of the car was just… very,very nice. :slight_smile: [size=50](good ego boost)[/size] :wink:

Thanks for the reviews Packbat and GenJeFT! A couple of quick responses to some of the queries raised by my review (which I didn’t realise was first cab off the rank!)

[ul]]I’m terrible with period styling and had no idea what to do with the sloping nature of the body when it came to the license plate and turn signals on the front LOL. It’s therefore more for vanity than actual practical use :laughing: /:m]
]Higher fixture quality actually improves Drivability! The threshold for cost effectiveness is relatively low, but you are absolutely right when you say that it also boosts reliability quite quickly, which I needed after nerfing the chassis and panels so much./:m]
]I found the main benefit of forged crankshaft was indeed mainly in the smoothness and not the lightness… and with this low weight any change to weight meant rebalancing the car’s setup all over again./:m]
]As pyrlix points out, there is indeed a difference in resonance between high diameter short cast and low diameter race headers, so there’s a significant improvement in the mid-high range, which matters on my little high revving buzzbox./:m]
]Funny story about my tiny grilles: I had to keep readjusting them when I upped the power on my engine. I did it like that to minimise bugs, so the game can just assume the vents are fully open… just in case. And I found that minimising drag was better than reducing brake fade, at least in a car of this lightness./:m]
]My decision to use semi-slicks was indeed clinched by the inclusion of Norisring, which is rather point and shoot and doesn’t seem to do much lateral wear on the tyres. Same for the relatively aggressive setup. The funny thing about the sway bars was that I started out with relatively loose sway bars, found the ratio, then kept bumping it up and up and kept finding that overall performance kept getting better. I myself am not sure what’s up with that, all I was trying to do was to keep the line as close to the top as possible without terminal oversteer./:m][/ul]

I downloaded your car twice and put it in twice but my computer never loaded it for some reason.

I’ll go ahead and do a mini text review and post it in the thread.

Oh, and the reason it is debored/destroked is because family. SBC is a family of engines. This block can house a 265 (1955), and a 283(1958) as a family. My original version would actually house all of Gen1 SBCs except the 400 (due to bore/stroke limit) in a single block, just like Chevrolet did it. This engine was built with future engines in mind, you see. It’s not just a one-off racer.

In the latest release, the car weighs 1001kg, not 1080kg, and does ATT in 2:45.93, a full second slower than previously, and costs 7956.xx total, without changing any settings (at least in my game it does).

Same here. BTW was my car the one that would wipe out the car list ? That made me worried for my revision when I heard that on the stream.

@pHanta: I forgot that you had wanted yours reviewed, too. (I’m probably forgetting someone else, too.) I’ll probably try to do the same for you, too. Meanwhile, here is the belated review of AshleyBlack’s BRC 1955 racecar.

[Edit: correcting pronouns from ‘she’ to ‘he’ - sorry, Ashley!]


First off, the styling is a bit curious, but interesting. It’s the most minimal design we’ve seen so far - glossy white paint, white headlights, red taillights, an almost-invisible body-colored grille for cooling, and that’s it. Honestly, it feels even more minimal to me than the competition build of Lothoren, which was missing all the fixtures besides the front grille due to saving issues.


But enough about the aesthetics, on to the vehicle.

On the model tab, we have the standard minimum-weight choices: -15 on the body, hand-made aluminium panels, 0 quality chassis, 0 quality fixtures. Nothing to note here that we haven’t already, so on to the engine.

On which note, I should point out: the Top Trump card is incorrect due to yet more saving issues - the actual reliability at the design redline is 27.8. Lowish, less than 30, but nothing to sneer at. More on that later.

The engine is a V8 Flatplane, SOHC 4v, 1394 cc, slightly short-stroked. Solid valvetrain setup - lighter than DOHC, cheaper than DOHC, but almost as much revving and almost as good airflow.

The bottom end is all-cast, no quality; the engine isn’t being revved high enough to require that. There’s 0 quality on the top end, too - this engine is a lot less revvy than most that we’ve seen, with the concommitant savings in production units.

However, the major reliability boost from keeping the redline down to 7400 RPM, and the lesser one from using single-barrel carburettors, is more than countered by a very racy decision: wide-open bell intakes. This is a race engine, and that fine-mesh grille is pretty much doing the whole job of keeping the intake air clean.

Checking my ignition timing cheat sheet, timing advanced all the way to 92 is very high, but my experimental didn’t actually lose much power at 60 cam profile going with super-advanced timing. (Although, strangely, at 70 I did, so it might be a matter of having to hit very tiny targets.)

On the octane front: I have here the engine at a 97.6 RON - which means there’s room for at least a point of leaning out on the fuel mixture. (At two points, the engine starts noticeably knocking, but minor changes elsewhere might compensate.) Given the importance of fuel conservation, running rich here isn’t what I would have done.

Going on to the exhausts, in a move that shouldn’t be surprising but somehow is, AshleyBlack uses properly sized pipes - dual 1.00" exhausts, fed by race tubular headers. These are heavier than but better sized than a 1.50" or 1.75" single exhaust pipe would be. Naturally, the car has no mufflers.

Overall, the engine is on the large end for competition not-Sprite microV8s, but is remarkably cheap at 59.3 production units and $500.59.

And on the trim tab, we can see that pay off: AshleyBlack can afford a +10 quality on his transmission. The final drive ratio is just a little bit shorter than would give peak top speed, and as with my own entry the gearing is very tall - 0-100 kph in first. I suspect the motives for this are very similar, given that, as with my own entry, the car is running an open differential (wheels keep spinning literally all the way to 100 kph); still, it keeps the car in the power band above 70 kph, which is valuable.

The car is running on semi-slicks; 10" rims allow for 175 mm width in the rear, but the front tyres are only 165s, with no offset front or rear.

On braking, though: +15 quality. That’s not an exaggeration: this car literally has all the quality on those brakes.


That’s actually in excess of $2000 spent on brake quality, and with that much money invested, it is hardly surprising that it stops faster than anything else in the competition - 38.3 m from 100 kph. AshleyBlack takes a bit of a drivability penalty from not playing with the rear pad type, however: going from 100 to 32 would bring Drivability from 36.2 up to 38.7 with no increase in braking distance, and going all the way down to 0 would be less than a tenth of a meter and take Drivability up to 39.5. That said, even with overaggressive rear pads, he’s got a favorable drivability/sportiness ratio. Brake fade is -14.4%, brake cooling airflow having brought that down from -14.8% for an extra 0.2 Drivability.

On the subject of cooling: the engine is fully cooled with minimal surplus, but oddly there is 0 Quality on the slider here. Aero quality is relatively cheap, and I would expect it to be advantageous to lap times to drop brake quality to +14 and spend some of the $400+ that saved here. I haven’t done the experiment, however.

Inside, AshleyBlack uses the standard -15 Basic cabin and uses the -15 Standard 50s Safety for further weight reduction. (The complete lack of entertainment is built at +0 quality.) The final weight of the car works out to 555.1 kg.

On the suspension, Progressive for drivability, -5 quality for cost savings, and a very aggressive camber combined with stiff springs and sway bars - not nearly the stiffest, but at or above the standard settings. This allows a low ride height without bottoming out, which in turn helps keep body roll minimal. Looking at the yaw rate curve, the high camber, and the semi-slick compound, I expect this car to have significant tyre wear compared to other lightweight not-Sprites in the competition. The drivability is good, but that understeer and that camber is going to promote significant wear.

However, at least at first, the car is reasonably sharp in the corners - 1.19 in the small circle and 1.11 in the large circle - and with its staggeringly good brakes, AshleyBlack might make a fair few passes on corner entry. His overall reliability, at 54.7, is toward the lower end, but nothing particularly terrible. His lap times are 2:41.09 on the Automation Test Track, a little toward the slow end, and 2:21.31 on two laps of Brands Hatch Indy (1:07.62 on the flying lap), which is toward the fast.

[quote=“pHanta”]

Same here. BTW was my car the one that would wipe out the car list ? That made me worried for my revision when I heard that on the stream.[/quote]

Yes it was. First import wiped out every single other car but itself from my list (forcing me to import everything again). The second time much like with Ashley it simply would not load into the car list.

As to why that happened I have no idea since I cant think of any logical reason for that behavior but the next contest should not have the same problems. There is now an actual formalized way to export cars for contests like this with the latest version of the game.

Thanks for that written review! You have raised a few points about my car I’d definitely be looking in to. That review is exactly what I wanted, thanks again.
Only one thing I’d change, it’s “he” haha. The name that works for Guys and Girls is something my girlfriend has fun with telling people about her “partner, Ashley” haha