Budget Speed

[07CobaltGirl]

I understand what it is in the real world. Like I said, I drive a Chevrolet Cobalt Coupe, which is considered an American Sport Compact.

I don’t like Wikipedia as a citation source, but…

[urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_compact]Sport Compact on Wikipedia

[quote]A sport compact is a high-performance version of a compact car or a subcompact car. They are typically front engined, front-wheel drive or all-wheel drive coupés, sedans, or hatchbacks driven by a straight-4 gasoline engine. Performance-oriented sport compacts generally focus on improving handling and increasing performance by engine efficiency, rather than increasing engine size. Sport compacts often feature external body modifications to improve aerodynamics or house larger wheels.

Typical sport compacts include such examples as BMW 135i, Ford Escort RS Cosworth, Honda Civic Si, Renault Clio V6, Renault Mégane Renault Sport, Peugeot 205 GTI, Volkswagen Golf GTI, and in the USA Chevrolet Cobalt SS, Ford Focus SVT, Honda Prelude, Hyundai Tiburon, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V, Opel Astra GTC, Toyota Celica, Scion tC.[/quote]

It needs to be defined in the rules, or any car which meets the rule criteria has to be accepted. The large majority of the cars meeting this criteria, sporty compact model, are FF or AWD. Only a handful are RWD, and of those which are, many are R/R. Many of them also fall into the Hot Hatch segment.

[Sayonara]

My apologies, I did not mean to imply that you didn’t know what a sport compact was; I intended to provide a general frame of reference for the “We Will Not Build Cars For This Competition Until TofuWarrior Defines What A Sport Compact Actually Is Because It Is Apparently Completely Subjective And We Do Not Like This” movement.

(Seriously, TofuWarrior, it’s hard to think about building a car when you haven’t defined what you actually want us to build.)

[HighOctaneLove]

[quote=“Sayonara”]My apologies, I did not mean to imply that you didn’t know what a sport compact was; I intended to provide a general frame of reference for the “We Will Not Build Cars For This Competition Until TofuWarrior Defines What A Sport Compact Actually Is Because It Is Apparently Completely Subjective And We Do Not Like This” movement.

(Seriously, TofuWarrior, it’s hard to think about building a car when you haven’t defined what you actually want us to build.)[/quote]

My car has been accepted for the competition and it’s wheelbase is 2.81m so the Norman-Vauxhall entry is legit in size as it has a 2.74m wheelbase… Use my car as the upper scale and virtually all of the bodies qualify!

As for a frame of reference; TofuWarrior is heavily influenced by Initial D and the JDM scene. Build a car that echoes these sentiments and I think you’ll be accepted for this competition, no worries!

[strop]

So what on earth are we supposed to make of the comment, “it’s not very compact” then!? xD

Also yes, Initial D had its Truenos and Miatas, but it also had Lancer, Skyline, Civic, S17, 240SX, RX-7, Supra, NSX, 350Z etc. Some of the latter aren’t compact and some of them definitely not RWD! So even if we echoed the sentiment we would really appreciate some explicit guidance

(That said I know more than enough to make an entry now. If I used trackpaduser’s Miata body that would definitely qualify…)

[np1993]

I shall whip up something fun for this competition. Can we use car bodies provided by the 3D modelling community? I could make something sweet with the not-miata body

[strop]

Right, I think tofuwarrior’s about to get a few not-miatas.

I am currently sick, so I was not very imaginative. As you know, the new ND is a bit of a departure styling wise from the old series, yet also tries to enhance the original philosophy with a lighter, smaller, sportier car with less bloatware. I like the idea. The styling… well, I thought to myself, if I built the ND, how would I do it?

Then I said eh, actually there’s not enough power. If I built the ND and then I tuned it, how would I do it? I’d keep it simple, and then slap a turbo on it

Let’s just say it’s significantly faster than a regular Miata. Hell, it’s significantly faster than most stock compact sports cars.

[BlastersPewPew]

@strop

Let’s just say it’s significantly faster than a regular Miata. Hell, it’s significantly faster than most stock compact sports cars.

And probably mine as well I think I built a rather “normal” car and not an all out race type but this game is about having fun while doing these competitions and that goal was accomplished so even if I loose I win

[MITTNACHT]

I just parked my Concept infront of Upshift magazine’s headquarters and handed the keys over to TofuWarrior. Let’s see what happens…

[TofuWarrior]

@strop

Then my point is, it pays to clarify because everybody is new at some point and doesn’t have the same understanding as everybody else.

This is what I’d like to clarify.

Does anyone know that I’ve NEVER HOSTED ANY SORT OF COMPETITION BEFORE? I’m learning just like I learned how to Automation.

but wait i sort of figured it all out the day i bought it and…
NEVERMIND.

Anyway, since nobody likes my open concept, here’s some more rules…

Prohibited bodys:
2010s Luxury Sedan (Jag)
All 50s, 60s, 70s, bodys
All station wagons

No quality sliders above 1

[strop]

Now hold on a minute. There’s no need to be so defensive. We don’t actually care if this is your first challenge or not, a challenge is a challenge and regardless of whether its your first or your tenth, if we have questions, we’ll be asking them. All it takes, is that you answer them. If we don’t like the answer, tough for us, you’re the host, but at least you’ve answered it and we know what’s going on.

I’d think carefully before enforcing any rule changes. We liked your open concept. If it wasn’t already clear enough, we got confused by apparent restrictions where none were stated. The body restriction, OK, I get that (but you should be prepared to revise your deadline, which is soon!). But no quality sliders over 1? That kind of restriction tends to discourage most entries, and I suspect my submission would get knocked back because of that. If that’s the case, I won’t be revising my entry.

[BlastersPewPew]

[quote=“TofuWarrior”]

@strop

Then my point is, it pays to clarify because everybody is new at some point and doesn’t have the same understanding as everybody else.

This is what I’d like to clarify.

Does anyone know that I’ve NEVER HOSTED ANY SORT OF COMPETITION BEFORE? I’m learning just like I learned how to Automation.

but wait i sort of figured it all out the day i bought it and…
NEVERMIND.

Anyway, since nobody likes my open concept, here’s some more rules…

Prohibited bodys:
2010s Luxury Sedan (Jag)
All 50s, 60s, 70s, bodys
All station wagons

No quality sliders above 1[/quote]

PLEASE say submissions that have already been sent are exempt… that would be SUPER unfair, it is best to just leave this challenge as it is and build the rules for the next one. I HONESTLY dont see how this was such a big deal anyway, SPORT COMPACT, how hard is that to imagine a SMALLER car since COMPACT is in the name… Also the open concept IS nice I think, in the end YOU are the judge and if someone sends in a 900 HP monster with the size of a Viper it is OBVIOUSLY NOT a compact so it would be disqualified, that much is obvious to me and should have been to everyone else.

[07CobaltGirl]

/interest

[BlastersPewPew]

[quote=“strop”]Now hold on a minute. There’s no need to be so defensive. We don’t actually care if this is your first challenge or not, a challenge is a challenge and regardless of whether its your first or your tenth, if we have questions, we’ll be asking them. All it takes, is that you answer them. If we don’t like the answer, tough for us, you’re the host, but at least you’ve answered it and we know what’s going on.

I’d think carefully before enforcing any rule changes. We liked your open concept. If it wasn’t already clear enough, we got confused by apparent restrictions where none were stated. The body restriction, OK, I get that (but you should be prepared to revise your deadline, which is soon!). But no quality sliders over 1? That kind of restriction tends to discourage most entries, and I suspect my submission would get knocked back because of that. If that’s the case, I won’t be revising my entry.[/quote]

THIS!!!

[TofuWarrior]

Okay, now that’s interesting. I recieved a rude PM from someone I will not mention basically telling me I need to do what I just attempted to do.

I give up.

I facking give up.

Who do I listen to, an apparent automation veteran or you guys?

Blaaaaagh, my brain hurts…

[07CobaltGirl]

You should probably listen to what was said here in public, as opposed to what was told in private. There seemed to be a consensus among those in the debate here in this thread, and it does not seem to be the same result as your PM suggested. Just a thought…

Knee-jerk reactions like your “rule change” do not generate interest, but rather discourage it. The number of contests you have hosted does not matter. Those who have done many still listen to the suggestions made in their thread, and use a fair and logical system to determine what should be changed, and what should remain. If you don’t instigate a situation, then there won’t be one. Keep calm and listen. Offer sensible replies in a sensible tone. Don’t react to anyone who does not do this, and they will see the error of their ways.

As a refresher, here is a recap of the debate in the thread:

1. RWD is limiting and unrealistic for Sport Compact.
2. Sport Compact has to be defined, as it is fairly diverse in the real world. It should be defined by wheelbase, weight, engine stats, or any combination of those. Otherwise, it’s just “build a car using this body and engine” challenge, which is also acceptable, but should be defined as what it is.

As a response to the rule change, using rules like “outlawed 10’s coupe” aren’t always a good idea. Which one is the 10’s coupe? Be specific by using number of doors, wheelbase, etc. The vanilla bodies only have a name if you look them up in the install folder, not in the game. So for me, I’m not going to figure out which one I cannot use if it isn’t easy. /lecture

Oh, and don’t worry. I still have no more interest in this challenge.

[TofuWarrior]

Okay then. Screw that guy Rules still remain.

And for the RWD bit: If you have a competition between the following:

1st gen Miata
FR-S/BRZ
AE86

Seems somewhat well matched. But then, throw in a Civic and an Impreza. One is reliable as hell, the other is a beast. Neither have RWD. It levels the playing ground. If you bring a Gallardo Balboni and a standard Gallardo, the Balboni will suffer a bit in the corners due to it’s RWD system, but it’s still a great car. See what I mean?

EDIT: After this is over, I’ll relaunch it for round 2 with more explicit instructions, including wheelbase, number of seats, engine displacement, etc.
Somebody remind me not to experiment somewhere like this again

EDIT 2: There have actually been plenty of RWD sport compacts over the years.
Honda S2000
Nissan Silvia
FRS/BRZ
Miata
180SX/240SX
350Z
RX-7
MR2

That’s just off the top of my head, but you notice a theme here:
All of these vehicles are RWD, all of them are sporty, all of them would fit in the compact space at your local shopping center. Granted, not all are teeny, but all are relatively small.

[strop]

I’ll relaunch it for round 2 with more explicit instructions, including wheelbase, number of seats, engine displacement, etc.

Good idea!

The funny thing is, no matter how many people complain about this being restricted to FR, that’s obviously still entirely up to you. In fact, the easiest way to explain that for the sticklers is to come up with some kind of story, e.g. "You do understand that there are cars other than FR but you are so staunchly set in your mindset that the only true sports car is FR that you simply refuse to race against FF, AWD and MR cars, which, yes, makes you an antiquated car snob, but it’s a free country " or something like that. Or if that’s not your speed, rename the thread “RWD Sports Compact” or something.

To be fair, it’s possible to tune highly competitive FR cars. It’s just more difficult. But I’ll never forget just how damn good Rileybank’s BSLL entry was. It was FR, had 1347hp, didn’t even have any driving aids and it still wiped the floor with most of the competition.

[size=60]And again, seriously bro, no matter how thoroughly or quickly thought out any challenge is, there will be questions, so all you need to do is answer them promptly and we’ll run with it, or not.[/size]

[TofuWarrior]

[quote=“strop”]

I’ll relaunch it for round 2 with more explicit instructions, including wheelbase, number of seats, engine displacement, etc.

You do understand that there are cars other than FR but you are so staunchly set in your mindset that the only true sports car is FR that you simply refuse to race against FF, AWD and MR cars, which, yes, makes you an antiquated car snob, but it’s a free country [/quote]

I may use that

[BlastersPewPew]

Now that the dust has settled I can not WAIT to see what happens, I have a feeling this will be like watching a GT race, will have various classes all running “at the same time” so to speak. I know my car will NOT compete with the HP monsters but it should be interesting to see how it does against what is similar.

[Chipskate]

Good thing you got the rules cleared up, was a little worried my car would be a wasted effort.
Speaking of which, here’s mine:

Mine’s also a not-Miata build, although it’s quite different from strop’s. Instead of a turbocharged inline-four it’s got the biggest N/A straight-six I could fit under the bonnet. It’s loud, likes to go sideways and has no electronic training wheels or much of any safety features either, for that matter. If you haven’t guessed which company’s cars I’m trying to emulate, the fact that it’s called “The Trevor” should be enough of a clue