Journey of Ownership 3C - Bahnstormer 1978 [FINISHED]

Let me start by being honest with how I feel about the Lancier’s treatment in the now-defunct brief. What I got from it was: the same couple that liked the Lancier on their test drive, which would have included - due to Magda’s journalistic experience - all use cases they would have wanted - would get tired of it by the end of the year because of highway noise or something. Then, since the event that shall not be named or acknowledged happened, they go on a spree of photo assignments from '70 all the way to '77 while the car mostly sits in storage and slowly rots. In wrestling terms, that’s what we call getting buried. I am not the kind of person to cry mistreatment lightly, but I don’t know any way this could be considered a decent life for an automobile. It’s miserable.

Not to mention unnecessary: You have a perfectly good explanation already baked in that the Lancier is a sports car more than a family or cruiser car, and that having aged and changed their driving profile - as well as being people of status who need to be seen in a newer car - Magda and Stefan would be looking for a new, more comfy and modern car at this point anyhow.

This is a valid critique of the gearing profile of the Lancier with the caveat that it makes sense for the present day. It is today that we believe that, say, 3500 RPM is unacceptable as a cruise speed. I myself am somewhat of a champion of good and tall gearing in Automation cars, so Heaven forbid I ever become a “top speed comes at the end of the rev range” fiend. However, let’s go back to 1969 - and my car. With an Automation top gear of 0.75:1 and a final drive of 3.61:1, the true top gear ratio is 2.71:1 (note: in lore as well as after the drivetrain revamp, this would be a final drive of 2.71:1 and a top gear of 1:1). The tires are 26 inches in diameter.

Compare that, then, to a much more upmarket car, one that was definitely world-class luxury and one that unquestionably fits the bill as a Bahnstormer in 1969 - the Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.3. What’s this? A direct-drive fourth gear (on a hydraulic-coupled automatic) and a final drive ratio of… 2.82:1. With negligibly larger 26.6in-diameter tires. As you can see, my car has longer gearing that a literal souped-up S-Class of the time. So in historical context, and even though the car would have benefited from a taller final drive, it’s not some sort of mad screamer at all. Add to that the fact that nobody drives at 120mph the entire time they’re on the 'Bahn, especially in the 1970s. Corners, anxiety, traffic, the desire to consume less fuel, the relatively small distances you’re traveling there - and the fact that this particular family had just switched from a car that struggled to do 80 mph. This is why you cross-check with the era and the context.

As for the sound argument, we’re talking about a car with only a 40 loudness score on the engine, the cor-res steel chassis (which, in the game, adds to sound insulation) and +8 body quality. It’s probably more quiet inside than my 1993 Chevrolet Corvette in 5th gear (out of 6) - and that’s not really a rough or droney drive at all despite having worn-out weatherstripping. Helps that V8s sound good.

The moral of the story is thus: Do not bury a car that won a competition to the level of “They wanted to replace it by the end of the year!” - preferably at all, and certainly if you do not have 100% certainty that your criticisms against it are valid, well-founded, and exactly as severe as they are portrayed.


That was more or less what I meant when I said that the fate was a bit “unrealistic”, I was eating dinner when the messages started dropping in, though, so I didn’t really have the time to explain it any further…

I was on read-only the last couple of days since I was very busy attending car meets in all of Europe which I partly organized, and well, I think I cant keep my mouth shut even if I think it would be the most clever option.

I would never go that far, what if I think Riley gave me a rather low design score just because at some point we had a perfectly cleared thing in the past, such toxic thoughts are ruining a lot of things and can destroy a lot in a community if they were actually false. I would be very careful with that. In no way I would ever assume I get a payback in challenges for personal things unless its openly admitted or a b s o l u t e l y obvious. If I would have spoken out an accusation like this example (!!!) in all seriousness, the blanket between the two involved would probably be cut forever.

However, you are right that the car from Texaslaw was treated harsh which I did not like either, but that was rather a thing of carelessness than intention from what I personally judge.

True. Automation isnt a tragic Hollywood movie, and it does not need to become one. However, real life can be tragic, but then it shouldn´t be served like blood sausage in a prison.

He meant that the Kaffee didnt suit Magdas needs anymore. However, it is possible to point that out with lesser bashing…

Yes, exactly like this. It was a respectful treatment of the Kaffee which I also liked very, very much.

That is probably the best idea that I heard of in the last days, if the new host is up to something more “experimental”, this could avoid a lot of unpleasant things right away from the start. I think Moroza had the right idea in mind, but his over-motivation ended up going too far, which we can still correct without ruining the JOC. I have rarely answered his latest DMs since I was in charge 24/7 with my meets and official Mitsubishi stuff, so if I had been there for more consulting this current point maybe could have been avoided.

Regarding your rebuttal of the gearing/noise critique: I found this enlightening, thank you.

My mentality in approaching Automation designs is fundamentally more from the direction of “what could we have done in 19whatever?” than “what would we have done, with not only the technology but the views/perceptions/tastes/zeitgeist of the time?” It doesn’t come naturally to me to place myself in the box of another era, given that I’m not prone to staying confined in the box of this one, or any other, in the first place. This might explain a lot of my design and engineering choices. Several aspects of this matter, in the abstract, have been a blind spot to me, brought to my awareness incrementally and piecemeal in a few episodes, and I’m sure there’s some remaining. Additionally, tall gearing is a distinct personal preference of mine, and I didn’t take that lens off like I should’ve.

You’re right, of course; for the late 60’s, Lancier’s gearing is entirely reasonable, if not more progressive (relative to modern standards of cruising RPM) than average. While someone in 1968 thinking outside the box could very well have observed that it could be longer-legged still, in its historial context that criticism would’ve had little support from counterexamples.

Regarding the treatment of the Waldersee:

I applied the standards with which I’ve observed competition hosts treat entries, especially the last few CSR. I find many of them unnecessarily harsh by my personal tastes, but as a newcomer it’s on me to adopt prevailing culture, not impose my own. Yall seem to find much of it funny, anyway. By those standards, my treatment of the car was meant to reflect what I actually thought of it: mostly positive, some superlative, some minor quibbles - which humor may have unnecessarily amplified - plus a fair bit of unintentional neglect. My takeaway, pending comments, is that comp host standards do not apply in this case, higher ones do. Sound about right?

Regarding the backstory

Ok, it was half-baked. I had fragments in my head involving the oil crisis, the winter of '78, someone’s suggestion to me that I have Magda take overseas photography assignments… and I threw them together in one all-nighter sleep-deprived marathon session, wherein my attention was further divided by thinking about rules and scoring, as well as trying to dig up a poster for the IAA (harder than it should’ve been) and a newspaper from the time.

Two more matters:

  1. CSR154 is, and has been for some time, water under the bridge. I’ve made my apologies and they seem to’ve been accepted. If anyone would like to see anything further from me, DM me. But leave it and any other peripheral community politics out of this thread. Otherwise, that horse is long dead, and digging it up to beat it again stinks accordingly.

  2. A revised backstory may or may not take three or four days. I’m traveling for a major medical appointment and don’t know what my availability will be until Wednesday 6/21. The Desiderata, budget, and other parameters of JOC3C are tentatively unchanged. The proposed rules include a couple of new ideas (new to me, anyway), though far from the paradigm shift I had in mind as an option. Does it make sense to post them now for discussion, ahead of the full post that will also include backstory?


If I were you, I would post the rules ASAP so we can all just move on. JOC should not die over this.


Journey of Ownership 3C: Bahnstormer 1978

Überholprestige: compound noun in German, formed by Überhol(en) - to pass, to overtake - and Prestige - same as in English. A term used to refer to the visual signals a car gives, primarily in the rearview mirror of the car in front of it, of deserving an unobstructed path, t.i. encouragement to get out of its way. A combination of size, brand/model recognition and associated reputation/prestige, murky sociopsychological factors, just the right level and type of aggression - definitely not too much - and just plain looking good.

The story:

September 15, 1977

“Bruno, come on, hurry up!”

“I can’t find my glasses!”

“Are they on your head again?”

The rummaging noises upstairs paused, the interval of silence declaring loud and clear to Anke, long used to this situation, what happened. Rummaging yielded to a door closing, shortly followed by a barrage of footfalls on the stairs as Bruno, now properly bespectacled, hastened outside.

“I think you’ll make a fine academic after all. You’ve already got the absentmindedness!” She teased aloud, at the same time wondering quietly if she should also point out his mismatched socks.

“Oh hush,” he replied with a sheepish grin. “It all depends on the results of the Abitur that are to arrive any day now…”

“Come now, you know you aced that thing. The paperwork is little more than a formality at this point.” They walked down the driveway to the idling Waldersee, from which emerged Magda and Stefan as they saw their children approach. With the fluidity of nine years of doing so, they reached for the seat recline latches, swinging them forward for Anke and Bruno to pile into the back.

“Will Oma and Opa meet us there?”

Putting the car in gear, Stefan replied, “Unfortunately not. Oma isn’t feeling well, and Opa might’ve come on his own but when I spoke to him some hours ago, he couldn’t remember where he put his keys.”

Anke poked her brother to accompany the remark, “Something runs in the family, eh?”

“…but he added that if it’s a particularly interesting show, to call or come pick him up.”

“Just as well,” Magda chimed in, not breaking her distant stare into the large field they were passing. “The last time I drove with him, he not only forgot where his keys were, he forgot where he was on several occasions. And I don’t mean where he was driving, I mean the fact that he was in a car at all, and behind the wheel at that.”

Stefan looked slightly peeved for a moment, then let out a small sigh. “Unfortunately, it’s true. He’s still quite active and mobile - unlike my Mutti, poor thing - but leaving him to manage his own transportation seems with every year a worse and worse idea. Fortunately, I’ve talked to him about this and he’s as aware as he can be, and doesn’t seem too offended.”

“On the contrary, I get the distinct impression he enjoys being chauffeured.”

“That’s because it’s you doing the chauffeuring, dear. Not just that he’s fond of you, but that you have a way of handling a car that discerning passengers never fail to appreciate.”

“And I don’t mind at all. I just wish I could help the two of them, but between his height and her arthritis, the back seat just doesn’t work; I can only take one at a time unless I drive theirs. It’s just fine for you two, though, yes?” She turned around towards Bruno - who was staring out the window, lost in thought and muttering numbers - and Anke - whose eyes silently smiled back and forth between Bruno and her mother. “Quite alright,” she eventually said.

Magda went on, “This design of the seats fully between the wheelwells is brilliant, but there’s only so much overgrown Viking descendant that can possibly be stuffed into a 2.5m wheelbase, nevermind the matter of rear doors.”

“Ah, you’ve been thinking about its replacement again?”

“Well, it’s only a matter of time before Bruno’s diploma and other documents are sorted out, and we’ve already promised him the Lancier once he goes off to university. The Kaffee…”

“Is mine, yes?” Anke stated as much as inquired.

“Again, I’m not sure you need it living in Frankfurt, or want to deal with its maintenance, but that promise we’ll also keep, of course. Anyway, yes, the timing is lining up for a replacement. That is indeed half the reason for going to this show. Of course, I get a lot of previews and insider knowledge, but there’s still much to be said for all the exhibits in one place, polished and presentable.”

“With me and Bruno having our own wheels, will you get some firebreathing two-seat midlife-crisis-mobile?” Anke joked.

Her joviality, combined with the subject of the question, elicited the excitement in Magda’s reply, even as she shook her head.

“Not a pure sports car, no. Not to be the only car for a couple of 40-somethings. And now that we’re talking about Oma and Opa, I think we’ll be driving them around more, so not only do we need four seats and four doors, but plenty of legroom as well.”

Stefan asked, “Just for the sake of argument, couldn’t they keep their Hörch and we drive them around in that?”

“I guess… that would work, just rather inconvenient. Also, the occasion does occur that I’ve got an interviewee or someone else for a passenger or two, and wish for a way to drive them around that doesn’t involve minor contortions. For a truly special two-seater, forgoing this might be worth it, but doubtful.”

“And what else are we after, again?”

"The Waldersee’s been excellent all around, especially to live with, between its versatility and reliability. The new car should be a general upgrade, and significantly downgrade nothing major while improving overall. We can afford more intensive maintenance and a bit more downtime; below Stellar there’s room for Good to Great. Otherwise, if it does compromise something, it should more than compensate elsewhere. We won’t compromise overall usability, though - this shall be a tool first, a toy second. In particular, cargo room for roadtrips is a must, though it doesn’t have to be quite this generous.

As far as the ride, we don’t want anything too extreme. It shouldn’t knock out our teeth fillings, nor put us to sleep. For the same or a bit less Fahrvergnügen, it should be a lot more comfortable. Or for the same or a bit less comfort, a lot sportier. But ideally, both would improve.

Then, under the hood - call me spoiled if you will, but I’ve gotten used to the Lancier’s power, and meanwhile more and more competition is catching up. I want to see fewer receding taillights on the Autobahn, and to be more comfortable cruising at higher speeds, not just getting there. More efficient, too. The same power would be ok - barely - if the aerodynamics, weight, and efficiency make up for it. Conversely, we could stomach paying the same for fuel if the power is that much greater. But ideally, same as the ride - a meaningful gain in both.

I’ve also come to appreciate Laufkultur more and more over the years. The motor can’t be just a sledgehammer; it needs to hit heavy, for sure, but just the right amount of hard, not too much. For that matter, the same goes for the looks.

Speaking of which, the front of the hood: I’d like not just a good bit more Macht, but for it to look the part - something with more Überholprestige."

“Are you just counting on a decade’s worth of technological progress to make the upgrades happen?”

"Partly that, and partly a higher budget. For that matter, considering where I am professionally, it also should look like it commands and justifies a premium. "

“How much?”

“Well, once we narrow down our choices, we’ll sit down and run some numbers on immediate and long-term costs before an ultimate decision. Between the house paid off, the kids launching their own lives, my recent raises, the previous promotion, and the rumors of another, the budget feels quite healthy - I’d say $42k is a good benchmark, though for the right car that can of course stretch. A price tag beginning in 5, though… had better be attached to something truly extraordinary.”

“Maybe we’ll see something like that today?”

“Or this week. The show is massive this year; there’s no way we’ll see it all in one or even two days. Anyway, I expect there’ll be much sorting of wheat from chaff, but it’s about the most productive field there is, so to speak, and certainly the likeliest place to find a worthy successor.”


The Lancier gave Magda a taste for speed, while continuing career success has increased her means to indulge it. It’s time to find a worthy successor - a proper Autobahn machine that remains a reasonable daily driver. The kids are semi-moved out, have their own transportation, but for several reasons, four spacious seats are a medium-strong want; anything less needs to really make up for it elsewhere. We’re looking for either medium sportiness and high comfort, or the other way around - no racecars, no Quaalude dispensers. $42k expected, $50k is a stretch. Should be good at high speed cruising, not just racing. Economy matters some. Needs to look - politely - like you’d best get out of its way, and needs to be able to demonstrate why.

Primary Inspirations

Aston Martin Lagonda

BMW 745i

De Tomaso Deauville

Jaguar XJ

Maserati Quattroporte II

Mercedes 450SEL 6.9

Secondary Inspirations

Sufficiently awesome can overcome the seating shortage

Alfa Romeo Montreal

Citroen SM

Ferrari 400 GT

Jensen Interceptor

Porsche 928



  • Suitability for high-speed cruising.
To elaborate...

Not just raw power, top speed, low wind resistance, downforce, comfort, strong and fade-free brakes, or roadholding alone, but a blend of those and more. Laufkultur - basically, engine smoothness - is important, but should be balanced with on- and off-throttle response. Engine loudness counts as well, separately from overall comfort. Gearing is important; the closer cruising RPM is to redline, the smoother, quieter, and more efficient the engine must be to compensate. But too tall gearing makes for a slow car. Suspension tune is important; there can be different blends of firm and compliant that work, some better on a given car than others, worse on a different car.

  • Looks, stylistic cohesion, Überholprestige, historical realism in style, and to a lesser extent mechanicals.
To elaborate...

Note that the mid-late 70s did have a fad of retro, but no slack will be cut in performance and functional standards just for looking old.

Also note that this was possibly the most diverse era for mechanical design in the game. Engines ranged from iron OHV with carbs, to alu and magnesium DOHC-4 with turbos, EFI and ITB (and flatheads hadn’t been out of production for that long, either). Transmissions ranged from two-speed Slush-o-matics to fully-synchronized 5-speed manuals. Chassis could be leaf-sprung solid axle Hotchkiss drive, or AWD with Torsen diffs, full double-wishbone and even multilink was starting to appear… you get the idea. This is about the most lenient time period for mechanical period-correctness.

While I wlll scrutineer… yes, we’ve made that a word now… your engineering, at the end of the day, unless otherwise specified, if it works, it works; your entry will be judged more for what it does than how. The caveat is that “what it does” and “[if] it works” have a broad meaning, taking into account Minmaxing (boosting listed stats at the expense of unlisted ones to a degree implausible for a mass-market car in 1978), and to a lesser extent, Cheesing (boosting stats in a historically unlikely/implausible way that doesn’t hurt other stats). Otherwise, if you do weird shit under the hood in a way that ultimately works, isn’t prohibited, and isn’t minmaxing, the verdict will likely be “more power to you and your clever innovation.”

This means, among other things, that sliders with arbitrary numbers, including but not limited to quality and airflow, are fair game.

In particular, neither in- nor out-of-character will I give a damn about the details of any turbo setup. The game’s modeling of forced induction and exhaust tuning is so grossly oversimplified that I’ve long given up pretending about its realism, and will pay attention only to its results.


  • Prestige as a stat. Contributes to but is distinct from Überholprestige.

  • Efficiency, both absolute and relative to performance.

To elaborate...

Combined and 110kph/65mph economy will be taken into account, as will thermal efficiency itself. I may or may not calculate high-speed consumption manually, based on gearing, BSFC, and other factors. As a loose guideline for typical cases, anything worse than 20%, or 12L/20mpg (US) highway will be increasingly frowned upon, and by 15 highly unlikely to be considered.

  • Sum of Comfort and Sportiness. Either medium levels of one and high of the other, or a blend. If both are middling but the car does something extraordinary elsewhere, that might fly.

  • Reasonable everyday usability. A blend of Drivability, Reliability, Practicality, bumper overhangs, visibility out of the car…


  • On-throttle response regardless of transmission, also off-throttle response if manual transmission.
To elaborate...

For the latter, Magda likes a lively engine that doesn’t delay gearchanges. Will need to be balanced - no pun intended - with smoothness, reliability, and rev limit (hint: quality). Doesn’t matter with an automatic trans, which means potentially greater smoothness, reliability, and/or rev limit and therefore power with an automatic. This may or may not compensate for an otherwise medium-strong preference for a manual.

  • Reliability. Engine and whole car should both be at least 60 (soft limit), no lower than 45 (hard limit).

  • Safety.

  • Cargo volume.

To elaborate...

Road trips are part of the purpose, and Magda needs to be able to fit more than a picnic basket and a camera. Will be evaluated in part by the stat for total volume (passenger and cargo), in part by design and layout for both absolute size and convenience of shape. For bodies other than sedans, wagons, or traditional coupes, trunk/frunk/other storage cavities encouraged to be modeled with 3d fixtures. Hint: check out where the McLaren F1 keeps its proprietary luggage set. Get creative.

  • Environmental resistance. This is an expensive purchase she wants to keep around intact.


  • Service costs relative to performance.

  • Off-road. If it costs a little money and not much performance, sure, might come in handy. But this is a road car and won’t be much compromised on that.

  • Value. Magda expects the automotive answer to life, the universe, and everything to cost $42k. Anything more had better be worth it, and over $50k quite unlikely. Anything less gets minor bonus points only - Cheap makes Good better, but Cheap does NOT substitute for Good. Given a free moped, Magda would still want for a good car. Given a $10k econobox, she would still want for a good car and furthermore be $10k poorer for the same objective.


Note that the rules address more legality than customer preference. Something with 50.0 loudness and Basic 70’s safety at -15 quality is street-legal but not suitable.

Basics and protocol:

  • Naming convention: Car Model and Engine Family: JOC3C - your username, followed by anything else you want. Car Trim and Engine Variant unregulated, but your car’s make, model, and engine name must appear somewhere.
  • DM me with your .car and any design/engineering notes, and post an advert with photos in the thead. The advert can be as little as the make and model, or as much as your imagination comes up with. Creativity, lore, roleplay encouraged.
  • Interiors will not be scored, but if present will increase the depth/color of the review.
  • Techpool: Default.


  • Trim year: 1978. Model and engine year: 1978 or older.
  • Body style: any, but SUV, trucks, utes, vans, and soft-top convertibles are highly unlikely to be considered. Body style is determined by how the final result looks. If your minivan looks like a convincing mid-engined GT, it’s a mid-engined GT.
  • Wheelbase: any, but much below 2.5m is unlikely to be considered.
  • Rear double wishbone is allowed if chassis and suspension quality justify it: on mid- and rear-engined cars, both must be at least +2; on front-engined cars, chassis must be at least +3, suspension +6. No such restriction for other rear suspension types.
  • Legacy bodies are image (forbidden)


  • V16 are image
  • Fuel: Leaded 98 RON
  • Adjusted engine loudness = baseline loudness - (Engine Family Quality + Exhaust Quality + Fuel System Quality)/2.
  • Maximum engine loudness = 50.0 adjusted.
  • Race intake and headers are image
  • DCOE are not race parts and are legal.


  • Tire sizes ending in zero ARE allowed. This will be interpreted as a normal size (ending in 5) with adjusted pressure.
  • Semi-slicks are image
  • Wheels larger than 18 are image
  • Tire profiles smaller than 35 are image


  • Minimum safety equipment is Basic 70’s.
  • Minimum seats: two.
  • Headlights, taillights, turnsignals, brakelights, and reverse lights must be present, properly set up, and will be evaluated for visibility.
  • Other exterior details - wipers, fuel doors, key slots, trunklid releases - must be accounted for either in fixtures or in text accompanying your submission.
  • European-sized plates are required front and rear.
  • Advanced Trim Settings are generally fair game, except those that do something that could’ve been done in engineering.
  • Exceptions are case-by-case and best cleared in advance.
  • Resubmissions for any reason are allowed as long as not abused. At least one will be accepted without question.


Submissions open 6/28
Submissions close Sunday 7/9 Monday 7/10 at 23:59:59 Pacific time

Change log

6/23 Lowered price, revised interior protocol, lowered legally mandated safety, clarified rear double wishbone rules, removed Drivability and Comfort recalculations except for loudness, elaborated on Comfort vs. Sportiness.

6/23 Swapped priority orders of responsiveness and usability. Added backstory. Reorganized and added inspirations.

6/25 Clarified scrutineering. Condensed.

6/28 Added deadlines. Clarified year rule. Revised comfort/loudness scoring. Combined looks desiderata.

7/5 Clarified resubs and Value.

7/9 Revised tire rule, extended deadline.


What’s with the chassis quality stuff? Of all the qualities to restrict, it’s probably the most confusing. Plenty of Ameribarges and some of the inspirations have terrible chassis quality.

If anything, check negative tire quality.

Otherwise, no personal issues here.

1 Like

Chassis quality restriction only applies to rear double wishbone suspension, not Ameribarges.

Ah, okay. It was a little bit confusing on mobile, but when I switch to PC, it makes a lot more sense.

Just my two cents as a dumb baby that has barely hosted anything major:

  • Interiors will be reviewed if present (unless you request otherwise), reviewed in depth if detailed, ignored if absent, not considered in scoring either way.

Pick one or the other, you can’t say Interiors will be reviewed then say they won’t affect scoring. To me that reads as interiors will form a part of your opinion on the car and not having one would be an inherent disadvantage. If you really want to look at interiors but don’t want to force people to make them just make it a throwaway line about how nice/bad they look in the actual review.

I don’t really see the point in adjusting loudness, a limit of 50 is plenty loud enough for most things already.

I also really think that all the very little attention to detail things are more an unnecessary load on yourself for your first challenge than anything. Means you have to spend a good bit more time poring over the cars to check legality.


Which plates are mandated? Just the modern EU plate with the D plaque, or is there a late 70s West German plate in a mod pack?

Isn’t this interior protocol typical? I’d prefer to count them, but I understand that’s against prevailing norms and will result in fewer submissions.

The point of adjusting loudness is not only to make performance intakes (more than barely) legal, but to make them competitive for a luxury car, if paid for.

Barring a good and proactive excuse, any European-sized plates will do.

Responding to a DM:

I’ll think about it, but No-weakness-except-price is the kind of car I had in mind indeed; the W116 6.9 is really the poster child here, just out of alphabetical order. I expect to see Quality applied liberally - not to eat up the budget, but to make a better car - and the winner partly/indirectly determined by where and how that’s done.

What do people think of allowing race intake and exhaust, provided quality lower limits are met?

I think the concern is about “detailed” reviews. A host paying too much lip service (and thus attention) to a non-judged item may make it a judged one.

Loudness doesn’t need adjusting in order to make performance intakes viable. Just don’t score loudness apart from the 50 or, say, 52 hard limit - the built-in benefit to sportiness and malus to comfort will take car of that.

The DM was mine. You can build something like the 450SEL6.9 for 47 thousand; even with a hand-made interior as long as quality is not bizarre. I can agree with a bit more allowed money than that, but 60 grand legitimately is, if you will, Countach land in this game.

I don’t think race parts are a great idea. Long-tube headers already provide all the flow you need up to at least 8000 rpm; likewise with perfhigh exhaust. You can allow them if you wish simply to watch people struggle making them compliant to reliability and noise, and then in the end failing to make them good for the competition regardless; but it’s honestly not going to help the competition in any way.

As long as we’re not building race cars, I see no point behind allowing race parts, since it’s in the name what they are intended for. What I don’t agree with, however, is the “DCOEs are race parts” opinion that seems to exist. Sure, it wasn’t the most common carb type on street driven cars in stock form, but they did exist. Even the Solex 40 DDHT used by the Volkswagen K70 is a variation of that theme, and that is certainly FAR from a race car…


Agreed. Revised.

Story is up. Rules discussion for another… say, 48 hours?

few people in the discord were complaining about the rules being dense so i did a thing, thought it would be useful here

joc3c rules and priorities, summarized:

High speed cruising potential

Comfort and/or Sportiness
Usability (drive, rel, prac, util, size)
Period correctness

Throttle response
Cargo volume
Environmental resistance

Service costs

  • RULES:

Naming convention: JOC3C - (yourusername) - (whateveryouwant)

Default Techpool

Interiors will NOT be scored

Ad with photos required



Any body style, though trucks/suvs/convertibles unlikely to do well

Molding and end result takes precedence over “body style”, ie. if you mold a minivan body to look like a sports car, its a sports car

Greater than 2.5m wheelbase encouraged

Restrictions apply on rear double wishbone suspension (see rules)

No legacy bodies


No year req

No v16s

Leaded 98 RON required

Max loudness ± 50, depending on quality (see rules)

No race parts, except for DCOE carbs


Tire sizes ending with 0 are allowed

No semi slicks

Max wheel size 17in

Minimum tire profile 50

  • OTHER:

At least basic 70s safety

At least 2 seats

Must have road legal lights/turn signals

Exterior details incl. wipers, fuel doors, key slots, and trunk lid releases must be accounted for in fixtures or text

Euro plates required

Advanced trim is allowed, except in cases where it could have been done with engineering. exceptions made on case by case basis


Too dense or too sprawling? Either way, thanks, I’ll rewrite accordingly, and I wish folks would post here or DM me. I was on Discord a bunch last night, too; no word about this…

Rules discussion going once… going twice… pending any last-minute interjections, I’d say it’s time to haul ass.


I fail to see one very important piece of information, @moroza

Deadline for submiting .car files and ads, to be more precise.
Can you include this piece of information in post with rules, brief etc.?

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Barring objections, submissions officialy open now, and close Sunday July 9th at 23:59:59 Pacific time.