Yes, though if you pull off hippie van livery, the eyebrow raised will be one of mirth, not scorn.
I have one proposed rule change for your consideration: if you choose enough drivetrain techpool (6) to get AWD and select it, your car will get all bonuses of AWD as well as those of 4x4, notably the Off-Road score. The idea would be to simulate 4x4 with a (lockable) center diff, which is a common real-world drivetrain that Automation does not include. Thoughts?
Which differential would need to be chosen? Or would that also be up to our discretion?
I’m not going to put AWD on my entry it’s too expensive
It seems to me this might be a bit unbalanced without some other kind of penalty or cost attached. Since an AWD system can be built that’s categorically different from a 4WD system, I don’t think an AWD system should automatically get all of the 4WD bonuses. Maybe the extra 4WD bonuses can be “purchased” for an additional cost? But then that raises other issues of balancing what the appropriate cost would be. In the end, my vote would be to simply leave it as is to choose between AWD and 4WD.
Also, apparently the U.S. National Park Service has some very strong feelings about AWD and 4WD not being interchangeable: National Park Service Will Cite Drivers Of AWD Cars For Driving On 4WD-Only Trails (jalopnik.com). I’m not saying the National Park Service should dictate anything here, but I do think it makes some points worth considering about the distinctions between potential AWD and 4WD systems.
If anyone wants to go in a shared entry then let me know, if you already have something engineered then all the better
Ive got a car aboit 75% of the way there but if youre willing to finish an interior and maybe some styling tweaks id be up to collab
I would also lean towards leaving AWD and 4WD separate entities, if only to make it easier on the contestants and also the host.
What about 4wd makes it different from 4x4 anyway? I’m definitely missing something here, since I don’t entirely understand the debate in general. Can someone explain the importance of this complication?
AWD drives all four wheels via a center differential (viscous, helical or electronic), and may be on-demand (in which it only engages if it detects traction loss at the main driven axle); moreover, any AWD system (except for the on-demand variety) can have its torque split adjusted manually via a slider on the transmission/gearing section in the trim tab. 4x4, on the other hand, normally operates similarly to RWD, but is only intended to be used off-road, and never on sealed surfaces.
If it’s basically done I’m not sure how much I can do but if you want me to cast an eye over it and see what can be done on it send me a message with some pictures and the car file
There are three types of drivetrain relevant to this discussion:
All-wheel drive (helical or viscous): has a limited-slip center differential that may or may not be lockable, one-speed transfer case, is always on.
Part-time four-wheel drive (what the game calls “4x4”): has no center differential, can be turned on or off, two-speed transfer case. Modes are: 2wd with no gear reduction (2hi), 4wd with no gear reduction (4hi), 4wd with gear reduction (4low). In practice, there’s also a neutral range.
Full-time-capable four-wheel drive (doesn’t exist in the game): has a center differential that is lockable, two-speed transfer case. Modes are: 2hi, 4hi with center diff locked (part-time), 4hi with center diff open (full-time), and 4low with center diff locked.
A locked differential is the same as no differential, and is incompatible with driving on pavement; major driveline and tire wear result, and drivability suffers. “Full-time” 4wd can be left on at all times, incurring a fuel economy penalty but no significant mechanical wear, while drivability is improved.
Type 3 has all the combined capabilities and combined costs of types 1 and 2.
You’re right, it shouldn’t be free. I feel that it’s a moderately important option to provide, and as host I don’t mind the increased scoring complexity. Suppose it’s +$1000, and all stats are read as the higher of AWD or 4x4, except reliability which is read as the lower. As entrants, how do yall feel about this?
Brake fade in the first two categories will be penalized like normal. Brake fade in the utility category will be disregarded even if it gives a red flashing warning. This is to allow you to raise suspension height without raising payload and thereby brake requirements. The Utility stat is, as noted in the brief, totally ignored.
There’s been debate regarding the interior requirement. My personal preference is to not only judge and score interiors, but to consider them more important than exteriors. However, there are a lot of you who disagree, would rather not do interiors at all, and I would like to accommodate. The proposed compromise is that I won’t look inside cars (at least, not in a way that affects scoring), but that seats and a steering wheel, being the main interior parts visible from the outside, affect how a car looks from the outside and therefore are legitimate elements of exterior looks. The alternatives - empty shells or limo tint - don’t look right from any perspective. So what do yall want?
I appreciate the explanation of the different 4WD setups, but how are we meant to build a vehicle with full-time capable 4WD if it is not offered in-game? Is there a specific drive/differential set we should choose? Or do we simply say that it’s what our vehicle has and you calculate the stats from there?
I’m ok with either, I’d just like to know how it’ll work.
Yeah, you’d just build it as an AWD and declare that it also has a center diff.
I think that the benefits that AWD provides in-game make conventional 4WD a competitively weak option even before adding a full-time option to the mix. However, I am more than happy to accept the advantages if they are available to me as a competitor. If we want to say that full time 4WD is almost all the benefits of both 4WD and AWD at just $1000 cost, I’d be a fool to pass that up.
I’m more in the camp of, you can build the rules how you see fit, I will adapt my truck to them.
I don’t think this is the right challenge to do this if you want to judge interiors so heavily, given how utilitarian and basic the interiors of these vehicles would be.
I have made my points regarding how I feel about building interiors in this game; it is an incredible amount of work to put in for results that always look just that bit off, cartoonish or made of obvious pre-made fixtures or both. But you are the host and you are free to hold the challenge as you please. The upside of the simple and utilitarian interiors of this class of vehicle is they will not be so time consuming to make so if it is judged or required, I will not feel I have wasted so much time making one.
Pardon, I meant $1k + AWD, which itself is underpriced in the game. The proposal is:
I’m quite alright not judging interiors here. But I’d rather not see empty shells or limo tint, and would like to accommodate as much as possible the spectrum of people’s interior enthusiasm.
Ok, so for clarity… if I want my vehicle to have full-time 4WD, I need to equip it with AWD and request it be judged as full-time 4WD, knowing that it will add an extra $2000 to the final price of the truck and suffer from slightly reduced fuel economy.
The truck will then be judged with most of the best stats from both AWD and 4WD. And the differential we choose is completely separate from all of this.
Is this correct?
…which alone will add $1k to the indicated price, reflecting that AWD is underpriced.
…which will add another $1k on top of that.
Except reliability, which will be the worse of the two (not that it’s a huge difference).
Correct.
There’s an argument to be made to also do the same thing with differentials - namely, a clutch- or helical-type can also be lockable - but if that’s too much, I’d understand.
I’ll leave this open for 24 hours to allow further comments, before finalizing the ruleset.
Are there any real examples of 4WD in 1975 vs AWD or 4x4, though? As far as I’m aware, proper 4WD only came about in the 80s. Correct me if I’m wrong, please
Should something like this be considered a blanket statement across all challenges or just this one?
If a blanket statement then maybe it could be stickied somewhere?
