[LHC] - Letara History Challenge - Rd 5 [Results being posted]

I thought they had to be red - the NHTSA started mandating red rear side markers for all US-market cars in the late 60s if I’m not mistaken.

This isn’t the us though is it?

I’m sure the rear side markers were red in previous rounds though. I assume it’s either a copy/paste error or blinking repeaters at both ends are a safety feature

I’ll be honest, I was never pleased with the “amber crusade” that Letara’s been on. Especially since it really seems like it’s been coming from “the government” more than the lobbyists - not that I like the fact some lobbyists did push for it.

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I am mostly interested in knowing if it is a typo or if it actually has been changed.

Can I also ask for clarification of what counts as ahead of the axle? My prior entry got marks taken off for having them mounted in line with it, with the centrelines of the two lining up. This was a fair decision but there’s several questions it brings up:

  • What part of the light needs to be ahead/behind the axle? The entirety of it? The centreline? A substantial portion? At least one fixtured bulb?
  • Are there any rules on the size of the lights? I had to deal with this in ALC.

Theoretically, rules as written, I could stick a piece of tape in front of the rear of the indicator, keep 30% of it visible, and be legal. It’s not ahead of the wheel, but it is ahead of the axle. I’ve made the car less safe, but it wouldn’t be the first time laws had results like that. Maybe the answer is “be reasonable, if you abuse a loophole, it will be called out”. I would prefer clearly written rules though, but I am not the host.

Some clarifications:

  • No, this is not the USA.
  • No, it is not a typo: rear side reflector/blinker does need to be orange/amber.
  • Ahead of the axle is just that: the light (in its entirety) needs to be in front of the axle.
  • There are currently no rules regarding the size, but be reasonable or you will get called out. In the previous round some people got away with pretty small reflective strips hidden in aesthetic ways - but those were just reflective strips. Lights should realistically be a bit larger (no LED tech yet). Tiny lights in the late 80s-early 90s were quite dim.

The only reason why I asked was that they have been red before, and that it could be easy to make that typo when front ones needs to be amber. :slight_smile: Better safe than sorry, I thought. Amber rear side reflectors are indeed used in some countries, so…


First of all, yay we are back to Letara boys! It’s a shame we have to wait Ellisbury for the round 5 start, but it’s also for the best.

Since blinkers appear to be an hot topic right now, i would look into relaxing the regulations on blinkers, either for this or the next round. It’s not uncommon for car to have front blinkers behind the rear axle, integrated in some vent/decoration near the wheel arc, for example; some cars started have blinkers integrated in the mirrors as soon as the late nineties too. Not a big issue ofc, but something to take note of, i think.

My only other gripe comes on the race regulations, specifically the 20 comfort minimum requirement. I’d advocate for a 15 comfort minimum requirement in place of the 20, on the grounds that .

  • Cars are either gonna run very soft, or have to get creative to meet the goal
  • It’s not uncommon for MT, standard interior cars to result in a sub 20 comfort stat even on soft-ish tunes, so having racecars run more comfy than industry standard seems…weird.

Ofc, this are just some opinions, and maybe there is some balance stuff i don’t see running behind the scenes, but i’d throw my two cents at it while we are in the preliminary phase


If it hasn’t changed from last round (and it doesn’t look like it has), additional side indicators are still perfectly allowed. I’ve had semaphores on all my cars so far and this hasn’t been an issue.

So how exactly are these being operated? Like, are they being given/subsidized for the impaired themselves to use as daily drivers, or is it more like a specialized taxi service? Or perhaps are they just shuttles to/from specific places, like hospitals and clinics?

As a new entrant, I’ve no formal lobbying power and little informal leg to stand on, but specifying comfort minimums for race cars, especially 20, seems very odd. Perhaps a suspension rate maximum (how about 1.6) and tire profile minimum (35) instead?


Question: I have no intention of continuing in this challenge for reasons, am I allowed to “Sell” my lobbying to someone else?

Re @TanksAreTryhards: 20 comfort is not that unattainable. These are supposed to be road-legal GT cars with very minimal modifications and tuning from stock - i.e., NOT made for purpose race cars. I don’t think 20 comfort for a GT is all that high. As for why setting a limit? Well, otherwise people would indeed build a full race-spec car, which is not a GT.

Re @Edsel: They are vans/mini busses operated by the city/gov’t transport agency that also operates the city buses and such. So they are driven by professional drivers and if necessary need a space for a professional aide. They are not exactly like a taxi service, but similar in that you can pre-order rides to and from destinations.

Re @moroza: See above. Another consideration is that I will have very many cars to judge, so typically choose to make judging/scrutineering as easy as possible. That generally limits me to what stats export easily and reliably with the CSV exporter. But not a terrible idea, combined with a minimum interior type and quality I suppose… but that gets complicated. We’ve had comfort limits before in racing, and it has worked well.

Re @Fayeding_Spray: Nope, there is nothing to sell. If you feel like not continuing, then you can just not submit a car for this round.


Apologiess since you’re getting so many questions but will there be a minimum speed/lap time for the race like before to ensure only actual race cars will race?

There will be some form of minimum performance metric for the race, yes. I haven’t decided yet on what that will be, but it may be lap time based as that seems to work quite well. I’ll have to see what the new track sim does exactly. But there needs to be something to weed out the meme-y or subpar entries that just waste everyone’s time.


One additional question, will fuel consumption taxes be adjusted for cars on E70? E85 fuel has 25.65 MJ/L E15 has 33.18 and Gasoline has 34.02 - E70 is far, far closer to E85 than to E15. This makes cars on E70 use a much, much higher volume of fuel, even accounting for changes in thermal efficiency and such - it’ll be especially hard to dodge gas guzzler taxes. I ask because ethanol supposedly has an environmental perception bonus, so it should theoretically be incentivised - wouldn’t be the only time environmental laws didn’t work perfectly though.

Just one blanket fuel usage tax which - as you point out - I’ll balance with a little bit of ‘environmental perception/consciousness’ on the consumers’ part. Some gov’t decisions are indeed meant to be a bit flawed, as they are in real life.

Is there a restriciton on maximum city car length?

Don’t see it as a restriction, but a cut-off for classification. It is not determined from total car length, but wheelbase dependent. I cannot tell you what the cut-off will be though, as it depends on what everyone submits, i.e., what the general car population is. In the first three rounds it was 240 cm and under, in the fourth round it was 245 cm and under.

There’s been quite a few questions re indicators and side markers. Here are some permissible permutations (this is not an exhaustive list, but gives you an idea what is allowed). All four corners of the car are treated the same in this regard.

The simplest option: one amber indicator on the front (or rear), and one amber marker on the side that does double duty as reflective marker.

Slightly more advanced: A wraparound amber indicator and an integrated side marker or a separate non-illuminating orange marker. Note: the marker must be amber.

However, the indicator can have clear/white class, as long as it lights up amber. The reflector must remain amber colour.

You can also have the non-wrap around indicator options with white or amber cover glass, note that it still needs to be amber when illuminated. The side marker can be a separate fixture from the side indicator, but always must be amber glass.

Bottom line: indicator must be visible from both the front and the side, either as one wrap-around fixture or as two separate fixtures, and must illuminate amber, but cover glass may be white as well as amber. The side marker must have an amber cover glass, and may be integrated into the wrap-around design, or into the separate side indicator, or completely on its own…

I hope this clears up some confusion.


So i have a new query regarding the race rules. Since the new consumer rules do not state a minimum safety target, but just a generic “must have 80s standard or better safety” rule, how big of a gray area is using negative quality on safety for our racecars?

Safety quality can net a pretty big weight reduction, but i also think that negative quality spam on it is beyond cheesy.

Am i missing a rule and this is already regulated? Or is this indeed a potential issue?