If MH370 wasn’t enough for Malaysian Airlines, flight MH17 has crashed in Ukraine by the border with Russia, a flight carrying nearly 300 people travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Some believe that it may have been shot down yet both Russia and Ukraine claim they haven’t done it. Bodies have been found around the main wreckage, and some debris has scattered as far as 15 km from the main part of the plane. More here: theguardian.com/world/2014/j … raine-live
Im watching it on TV here… really sad… lots of Dutchies were on the plane…
God, I’m never getting on a Malaysian Airlines flight. I’m no political commentator, but I feel like Russia was behind it in one way or another.
Malaysia has been so unlucky, both planes’ incidents had nothing to do with them, as it seems. I feel sad about the people who died, but also for the company, the market losses will be huge, because people will start to think like Jakgoe and boycott their flights.
And the Kremlin’s quick positioning, even before they confirmed which plane it really was, is at least suspicious.
Let me chime in on this as well (I’ve read a lot about it since it happened) and let me ask you a simple question: Who has the motive and who benefits?
Every serious police investigation involving murder starts like this. Why not this one?
I dont know facts about this, but there is words out that the plane looked a lot like vladimir putins presidental jet, and that plane crossed the checkpoint like the malaysian one did, 41 minutes later than the plane that had been shot down. Could be that America tried to kill Putin.
Another thing, maybe they really thought it was an Ukranian Antonov cargoplane, and they misinterprit (lots of miltary planes use actual passengerflight numers, like MH17) the plane, thinking MH17 was the Antonov.
Hmm, a conspiracy to kill Putin? I find that unlikely, you don’t just shoot down a presidential jet (world’s best countermeasures, escort, etc.).
For the second hypothesis, them thinking it was a large cargo plane: why would a large cargo plane be flying from Ukraine in the direction of Russia, and why would it fly right over the restricted airspace?
I’d recommend this article for a piece of the fact puzzle: zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-1 … d-airspace
I agree, there is so much we dont know we cannot possibly make up anything that could be the reason to shoot the plane.
Plus the “looks like Putin’s plane” doesn’t really work as a theory. It doesn’t matter what colour stripes it has when it’s at ~30,000ft and you’re only seeing it via radar.
It’d have to be “Had a very similar radar return to Putin’s plane”, which I’d imagine would cover most airliners of that sort of size.
A 777 has an identical length to Putin’s plane, and a wingspan within 2 feet. I assume the radar cross-sections would be very similar.
That would make sense from that point of view then. I’m just tired of silly people mentioning the same livery in news articles 
The “Putin Assassination” theory sounds a bit less credible the more I look into it. As far as I can tell, that report originated in the Russian media, so I would take that with a couple grains of salt.
I personally am digging the Antonov supply plane theory the most. Sure it wouldnt be likely for one to actually fly over the restricted airzone, but if some trigger happy rebels just want a piece to show their power, it could’ve been enough to make them impulsively shoot it down. The rumour that the video of rebels shooting “a supply plane” down appeared BEFORE it actually happened makes me sceptical though. Maybe someone with a deeper motive tried to use it as cover blaming the separatists. Also, twice Malaysian airlines? Seems like someone likes to shoot these down or something, but for what reason?
[quote=“Daffyflyer”]Plus the “looks like Putin’s plane” doesn’t really work as a theory. It doesn’t matter what colour stripes it has when it’s at ~30,000ft and you’re only seeing it via radar.
It’d have to be “Had a very similar radar return to Putin’s plane”, which I’d imagine would cover most airliners of that sort of size.[/quote]
Use binoculars to looks up, the plane will be a bit bigger, anyway, it has a red stripe along the fuselage, and red is a strong color, dominant. So easy to see with our eyes.
Im just saying what I’ve read and that was the most… intriging one. Somehow I always want to make sure first America is not behind all this. As they seem to be the good guy, but proven to be the bad guy in many things. Nowadays you dont know what to believe of the media. I’ve seen examples of the media using pictures from another war or riot to make it look like it belongs to the current one.
Our media says Russia is all bad and all, and telling their people the story which is best for them, but how do we know they are not doing that to us, too, but maybe in a more subtle way?
They made us believe terrorists did 9/11,(together with American lies from the Bush government) but when they go for Bin Laden, what do they have to do in Iraq? Why is there these conspiracies that do make sense? just a small sum up:
- Fires were too hot for kerosine apparantly (KillRob will probably shoot me down for this, as he is the Scientific Master)
- Dogs who smell bombs and such, were removed from the build like 1 week before it happened
- The explosion of the plane hitting didnt match the way it flew into the building
- Im not sure how long, but it was like 3 months before the disaster, the owner insured the buildings for billions more
- They had discussed taking them down and rebuilding new, bigger ones, but they werent allowed as the buildings contained a lot of asbestos, so a controlled demolition wasnt possible, making it cost millions and millions more to deconstruct them.
Enough with 9/11, its about MH17. Today is the day of National Mourning in The Netherlands. We havent had such a day in 50 years. But this had such a great impact… everyone knew someone on the plane, or knows someone who knew someone… so its pretty damn close to a lot of people.
Another things, is that this disaster is a major setback for HIV and AIDS research. Quite some people on that plane were on their way to an AIDS and HIV convention in Australia. People who were going to speak there, actually knew what they were talking about.
All together, a very sad sad sad story.
2 videos for that topic
first - US state department says:
- russia provides heavy weapons to separatists
- russian military fired artillery, from russian soil onto ukrainian military
one reporter asked for proof … see what happened: youtube.com/watch?v=5T-ou8bSryI
second video is from JUNE
youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE
ukrainian army uses passenger jets as human shields
further facts:
- blackboxes are save and not tempered with (would rebels who shot that plane down, do that?)
- russia delivered data from their radar
- US DIDN’T release radar data, and DIDN’T release satellite data. even though they are watching ukraine from space since months.
- mainstream media pointed their fingers to putin right away
- nowadays they are silent on that topic. only thing shown are victims families
who would have a motive to shoot down a passenger plane?
- rebels? nope. russia? nope. US would be all over them
- Ukrainian military? if they could blame it on the rebels - sure thing
could the rebels have shot down the plane, not knowing it’s civilian?
- yes
Apart from that I doubt the rebels could have shot down the plane even if if they wanted (lack of rebel radar coverage for this missile system to work, plus an out of order missile system), I sadly have to agree with all your points mer_at.
Considering that the current Ukraine “government” is a US puppet, as evidenced by the famous and confirmed Victoria “Fuck the EU” Nuland recording and plenty of other now proven conspiracy facts, the only one with a motive here is the US and its Ukraine government. Ukraine forces have suffered heavy losses and important strategic positions in the two weeks leading up to this “accident”. So what better way to steer clear of a losing battle than calling for an international intervention allowing NATO forces to help eradicate these ‘troublemakers’?
As you point out, the US and Ukraine so far have been pointing fingers, while Russia has been providing evidence, asked very good questions (that were largely ignored by western media) and even called for an independent, international investigation into this issue. sigh
A little disclaimer here: As we have plenty of Americans here on the forum (who SHOULD be pretty upset by the whole situation), I would like to point out that in my opinion the American People have very very little to do with the American Government, which is completely out of control. 
[quote=“Killrob”]
A little disclaimer here: As we have plenty of Americans here on the forum (who SHOULD be pretty upset by the whole situation), I would like to point out that in my opinion the American People have very very little to do with the American Government, which is completely out of control. [/quote]
Since everyone is leaving links here, It’s official that sadly enough average Joe in America doesn’t have much to say anymore: bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
The situation is very sad indeed, whatever of the two happened. I have no clue myself on how able rebels are to run a long range anti-air system though, it wouldn’t surprise me if Russia gave a hand, but on the other hand sadly I see America capable of shooting down civilians for propaganda too, especially not revealing any Intel at all makes them suspicious, except for the fact they never do it.
From the sites I’ve seen the plane had a pair of su-17 flankers escorting it. From the ground you would see a military escort of what could be a high value target. I’m holding my speculation till more facts are in but I don’t see what would have been in it for my government to arrange this, we are already reeling in terms of international relations with the whole nsa thing.