Road Kings (Subs Closed, Review Time)

Community Challenges & Competitions
1

The year is 2003, and David Johnson is finally looking to replace his beloved 1982 Suburban.
Its 20 years old now and is starting to really show it, especially as the mileage approaches 250,000…

A family man, David has always enjoyed the capability of his truck, as its tough construction, large room, and size have allowed him to haul and tow his whole family of 3 kids and a camper all over the US, while having the room to stretch out and enjoy the scenery, and be fairly comfortable doing so, all while being reliable.

He wants a vehicle that can continue to do that, focusing more on comfort as the fairly rough ride and 80s gm interior has been the biggest downside besides fuel costs.

So, he has decided to start looking into what is available out there that can do all of that and more, without breaking the bank.

Rules

Family Names: RKC:Username (ex RKC:bdub1)
Variant names free

Submission Start Date: July 26
Submission End Date: September 1

Variant year = 2003

  • Price: 30k (although if there’s a truly standout feature he’s willing to stretch to 35k)
  • Techpool: 50M (total added up)
    Minimum 0 Techpool (no negative TP)
  • Body Type: SUV (Wagon or 2 Row Truck allowed if they fit the brief)
  • Wheelbase: 2.7-4m
  • Fuel: Unleaded Regular/Premium (OR 150 LNG for diesel stand in, see below)
  • Emissions: WES 7 (vehicles in this segment tend to have more relaxed emissions controls)
    Some kind of catalytic converter needed
  • Seats: Minimum 4 Full Seats if 3 rows, 5 if only 2 rows of seating
  • Quality: No less than -3 quality
  • Tires:Radial, size ending in 5
  • At least 90s safety
  • Interiors are not required, nor will they be scored, although i wouldnt mind seeing some

No Race parts, legacy bodies, or V16s
These Vehicles will be road cars and so must appear to be road-legal in the US (ie headlights, wipers, brake lights, etc)

Priorities:
3 Star

  • Practicality / Utility (Due to how limited these stats are to change in game, this category will be judged rather hollisticly based on the overall build of the car)
  • Comfort
  • Reliability
  • Service Costs

2 Star:

  • Driveability
  • Offroad
  • Safety
  • Prestige

1 Star

  • Fuel Economy/ Cost (Fuel economy will be bad, but at least keep it in the double digits for mpg)
  • Sportiness (He isn’t expecting a handler, but it should at least keep up and be able to pass on the freeway)
  • Aesthetics (He doesn’t want an ugly car but it doesn’t need to be world class for design)
  • Price (Dave wants a good vehicle and he’s willing to pay for it, but if something cheaper does the job just as well that’d be nice)

Diesel Ruleset: (subject to change based on feedback, ruleset based on agc33)

  • Architecture must be 2-valve. Block and head(s) cast iron.
    Bore/stroke ratios expected to be somewhat more undersquare (smaller bore, longer stoke) than IRL.
    Compression ratio expected to be lower than IRL, in the 12-16 range.
  • Bottom end may not use any “light” parts.
  • Cam profile 0-10. VVT, VVL prohibited.
    Max RPM 5000
  • Diesel fuel is simulated by Compressed Gas, LNG 150 RON. Timing fully retarded. Fuel system options in chart below

Inspirations:

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2003_chevrolet_suburban_4dr-suv_2500-ls_fq_oem_1_500

12 Likes
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This is my first challenge, so feel free to give me all of your feedback, and let me know if i have messed up in some way lol

4 Likes
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Nothing in 2003 would have used crossplies, is my main thought about the ruleset. Not that I think anyone would want to use them as they ruin stats pretty good, but still.

1 Like
4

Fairly true, although this is getting heavy enough that you start seeing crossplies used due to their strength, at least for heavy duty applications.
Didn’t want to totally rule it out, but i might still if enough don’t want it

5

MFI per cylinder says -1500 to the cost, is that a type o or am i missing context?

1 Like
6

Missing context of the challenge i pulled it from i guess, but it makes sense as its a default for older diesel engines, and would cost less than doing mechanical fuel injection on a gas engine

1 Like
7

AGC33? Not ARM30? MFI per cylinder was given a $1500 discount for diesels to reflect the fact that direct injection doesn’t meaningfully cost more than indirect.

Cross-ply tires would be unlikely fitted as original equipment to a roadgoing SUV, but not impossible. They remain in use for serious offroaders, and I can see something like a Hummer H1, or Jeep Wrangler Rubicon plus a notch or two, fitted with them.

5 seats if 2-row? Explain?

Strongly request/recommend lifting the positive quality cap. Fuel system, body, and drivetrain routinely get more than +5 in my builds. For driveline it’s about mandatory, since the game currently doesn’t acknowledge cheap heavy-duty tranmissions.

2 Likes
8

Does realism matter and, if so, to what extent? Do you want to require or prohibit any particular technologies or features for realism’s sake? I think all of the examples were body-on-frame designs with solid rear axles and were either rear or 4-wheel drive, not front-wheel drive. What if someone throws a hydropneumatic suspension in there or throws in a bunch of tech points to put in a touchscreen infotainment system in 2003? You could go with the “do your own research” approach or identify specific technologies not allowed for this challenge (if you want this to matter for this challenge).

Will interiors be required/scored at all?

1 Like
9

The Range Rover is a unibody. The rest are body on frame. I’d venture that monocoque, partial monocoque and ladder frame are all well within historical realism. Hydropneumatics had been largely replaced by air suspensions by '03, but I’d suggest allowing them anyway.

1 Like
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Alright, let me get in on the deliberation.

  • Not a fan of the variable price limit. Either state one limit or don’t place one at all and let people run wild on the head-fakes. Also - and this is important – I highly recommend making price a priority of some sort.

  • I am surprised that moroza hasn’t already pointed it out, but practicality is a very weird stat due to how poorly the game handles passenger/cargo volumes across body styles. You should investigate what in particular moves it - and if wagons are at all viable given how their low interior height gimps the volumes. A hunch tells me you could straight up drop that body style from the comp so that nobody ends up uncompetitive as a result.

  • Maybe a bit more techpool for us? 55 to 65 million would buy us a lot more nice features and actually approach the level of luxury that your Escalades, Range Rovers and Excursions exhibited. Like a solid-built V10 or a big ass turbodiesel.

3 Likes
11

Personally i’m a fan of the do your own research approach
as long as its reasonable for the era i dont mind some out of the box thinking, just try to keep it to something that could reasonably be put to market in 2003
interiors are not required or scored, ill add that to the rules

12

For the variable price limit, i was considering splitting the difference at 33k in the first place so i’ll think about that
for practicality, yeah, its a rough stat so i’ll be considering all of the things that effect it and it’ll be judged more hollisticly
for techpool, again ill do some fiddling and think about it

13

Ah
that was the ruleset i saw and was talked about on the discord and it seems to work ok
for cross-plies, yeah, ill probably end up removing them
and its 5 seats if theres only 2 rows of seating, 4 (with * seats presumably in the third row)
the quality cap, ill remove as the cost will be the limitng factor for that anyway

thank you for all the feedback, everyone, i really appreciate it

14

I’ve done a soft price cap for everything I’ve hosted and it worked out ok. People seem to behave well enough with the idea of “we’re looking to spend X, but if it’s really worth it we can stretch that”.

TBH, I completely missed the reference to Practicality. I would advise dropping that stat altogether, and evaluating practicality subjectively. As for Utility… seems to work ok? Anyone?

How does our protagonist feel about retro a la G-wagen or Wrangler?

1 Like
15

i thought i was missing a car
ill add the g-wagon to the inspirations
aesthetics are a 1 star priority so as long as it fits what he needs its fine to look older style

16

I have noticed that wider vehicles are heavily punished in the practicality stat. Most of the submissions here should be wide as hell, but if someone were to find a narrow body that fit the bill it might give them an advantage. I’m all for using the more holistic approach.

2 Likes
17

CSR162 had a $55m techpool limit - the same should apply here.

18

I don’t know much about diesel engines,??? what does the cost aand reliability modifier meaan??

19

CSR had a lot of quality spam based engineering i saw, so id rather not go that far but ill increase tp to 50m, for a rounder number at least
If more really want higher tp ill consider it

2 Likes
20

I think 45 million is too much i think it should be reduced to 25 mil