The Car Shopping Round (Round 64): Tears in Heaven

Sorry for the delay guys! Here’s part 1 of the reviews. I’ll get part 2 and the final results up tomorrow.

Welcome to our car show! All the guests are invited to walk around, look at the cars, have a chat, etc. Several members of our production team will be browsing the cars and writing notes of what they think.

Stanton is the head of our marketing department. He’s primarily going to be concerned with the looks and wow factor, and also how well the car’s story fits into our documentary.

Martin is our financial guy. He’ll determine whether the car is a good fit for our budget.

Mike is our lead technician and grease monkey. He’ll be critiquing the performance, design, and engineering of the cars.

Without further ado… let’s get started!

Lordvader1 - Turtle

$18400 - 77PU - 27.9ET - Limited Production x1

Stanton:
What car is this? I’ve literally never heard of it before. The seller is rattling off a list of specs but he hasn’t said anything of the car’s history. He literally can’t even name the company that made it. Not that the specs are anything impressive, either - with this car’s small size and tiny engine, it’s not surprising that no one can remember this car at all. The rather bland appearance doesn’t help either.

Martin:
I can’t find much information on this car either, but it did apparently have a small sized production run, mostly held back by its aluminum panels. It’s within our budget, but this is definitely not a car we are interested in.

Mike:
Nothing to write home about here. This car understeers like crazy despite its rear engine. The 50hp inline 3 is pretty laughable in comparison to some of the other cars here. Braking performance is poor. Also, it’s super cramped in here.

Madrias - Devillain DR6

$20800 - 73/28PU - 34.5ET - Limited Production x0

Stanton:
I love the looks of this car. The flowing chrome trim is amazing, and the large side vents are really cool. I’m sure it will look good on camera. The DR6 is also fairly well-remembered, a result of it being being both prestigious and common for its era.

Martin:
This car certainly falls within our budget, as it is one of the cars that was actually mass-produced. This car is clearly designed for mass production, and it is impressive that it can achieve what it does with only the most standard technology of the time. Plus, we can fill it up at any regular gas station.

Mike:
One of a few cars here designed to run on any kind of fuel, which is pretty interesting. While that certainly does it make it easier for us, it also means the engine is terribly unoptimized. Compression is terrible and ignition is extremely delayed. I think that the engine could have been far better - or far cheaper - if it was optimized for the leaded fuel of the time.
The handling of the DR6 is unimpressive. The thin tires have little grip, meaning lots of wheelspin and poor braking. Not that the crappy brakes would have been able to keep up, anyway. I think that some investment in more advanced technology could have made a large difference, without hurting production capability too much.

Abg7 - NMI Raven

$22600 - 81/37PU - 38ET - Limited Production x2

Stanton:
I have a hard time believing the seller’s story that the NMI Raven was a “runaway commercial success.” And it certainly couldn’t have “inspired” a wave of affordable sports cars when it wasn’t the best - nor the most affordable - sports car of its own time. It’s got a decent amount of prestige, but far from the most. And its unassuming styling won’t impress anyone on the camera.

Martin:
The seller claims that there over 1000 still surviving examples of the Raven. I highly doubt this, considering the difficulty of producing spaceframes and aluminum panels. It’s on the high end of our budget and there are definitely more impressive cars.

Mike:
Well, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that sellers to tend to overstate their car’s abilities. But I had to balk at the claim of “peace of mind drivability” after trying this car’s brakes. The stopping distance of over 65m is absolutely abysmal, and it gets worse after each stop. The handling also tends too far towards understeer for its sporty pretenses. There are cars which can live up to these lofty claims, but the Raven is not one of them.

Vri404 - Handen Ebi “Shrimp”

$22000 - 71/24PU - 35.7ET - Limited Production x1

Stanton:
This car is certainly unique, but I’m not sure it would fit our documentary. It’s not particularly prestigious or common, and I don’t think many people would remember an obscure Oregon track car. The styling isn’t particularly notable either, aside from the lack of tail lights.

Martin:
With a production run of less than 100 units, this car is probably too rare for our budget. It’s no wonder the production was so limited, any car with a spaceframe chassis is going to be difficult to build in large quantities.

Mike:
Holy crap it’s cramped in here! Yeah, I know it’s supposed to be a track car, but these seats are really tiny and uncomfortable, and the suspension totally bottoms out. Speaking of suspension, this car seems to understeer quite a lot for a track car.
Aside from the understeer, driving the Shrimp is pretty fun. With its light weight, grippy tires, and advanced brakes, the handling of the Shrimp is well above most of the other cars here. I’m also quite a fan of the sprightly inline 4 engine, although the vibrations are unpleasant.

JohnWaldock - JHW Harrier

$27000 - 128/70PU - 33.6ET - Limited Production x0

Stanton:
This Harrier looks respectable, but very bland in comparison to some of the cars at the show. It just doesn’t stand out in any particular way, besides maybe its cylinder count. The practicality is pretty nice… but how many cars are remembered for their practicality?

Martin:
This car had a production run of about 600 units, which puts it on the rarer side. While we may be able to fit it into our budget, I think there are better options for the price.

Mike:
This car is pretty interesting. While it doesn’t use any production techniques that are excessively difficult, it does use quite a few rare and advanced technologies for its time. Unlike most of the other cars, which spent of time designing brakes, the Harrier went for a complicated suspension system. Also, the V12 is extremely expensive, with intricate top end, bottom end, and fuel system parts. It could have been much less expensive, and probably better, with lighter pistons and conrods, fewer carbs, a smaller exhaust, and better octane usage.

TheUltimateD00M - blekaca

$39000 - 109/148PU - 51ET - Limited Production x3

-DISQUALIFIED- due to not being produced in the 40s (Engine engineering time over 48 months)

Denta - Elland Type C29

$30600 - 158/67PU - 37ET - Limited Production x2

Stanton:
The C29 has quite appealing exterior styling. The focus on aerodynamic performance is apparent, with its smooth curves and sexy fastback. The car has some prestige from its racing pedigree, but both the car and the company were ultimately unsuccessful in the market. It’s decent, but doesn’t match up to some of the other cars here.

Martin:
Elland only made 68 of these cars, so it’s almost certainly out of our budget.

Mike:
The most striking thing about the design of the C29 is without a doubt its fantastic aerodynamics. The thing is, I’m not sure it was really worth it. Sure, more speed is good for a race car like this one, but the real limiting factor in this era was braking, and less drag actually makes that harder.
The inline six also has a lot of (probably unnecessary) quality in the top and bottom end, but runs on 80RON fuel. It seems contradictory to have a meticulous performance engine run on such low quality fuel.

TheBobWiley - Ankomst Automotive Bombardier

$35200 - 87/84PU - 40ET - Limited Production x2

Stanton:
I love the looks of this car! From the “A” logos in the front and back, to the swoopy chrome trim and fastback, to the badass vents, the styling of the Bombardier is definitely on point. And with a huge 5.9L V12 producing 305hp, the Bombardier certainly has the prestige to match its looks. This is the first car here that can really go toe-to-toe with some of the other cars we’re planning on having on our show, at least based on fame.

Martin:
The seller says that only 1500 of these cars were sold, and based on his asking price I would believe him. It’s not the rarest car here, but it’s definitely on the high end of our budget. Considering how crazy the engine is, I’m surprised that there were that many made!

Mike:
Under the mile-long hood of the Bombardier is a properly insane 305hp V12. Ankomst was lucky to be able to purchase the engines, because there’s absolutely no way they could have produced this monster engine themselves. The power easily overwhelms the 165mm tires, resulting in lots of wheelspin and poor braking performance. Despite the advanced technology, the stopping distance is still inadequate and it gets worse with each stop. And there’s nothing prestigious about having a two speed manual.

TR8R - Shado Straker

$18600 - 77/19PU - 35.7ET - Limited Production x1

Stanton:
I’ll be honest, the Shado Straker doesn’t look like it belongs in the 40s at all. The pop-up headlights and blocky vertical tail lights suggest 80s. Like the Shrimp, this is a track car, and isn’t particularly prestigious (not with that 1.4L inline 3), nor is it very common. Probably not a good fit.

Martin:
While this car wasn’t able to be mass produced (because of its aluminum panels), it’s still common enough to fit into our budget. It also has impressively low running costs, although it uses leaded fuel.

Mike:
This car is very similar to the Handen Shrimp, but manages to be better in most ways. The Shado Straker was able to fit an AM radio and high quality tires into a surprisingly low original price. Handling is superb, with very good braking performance. There’s still a bit too much understeer for track car, though.

7 Likes

seems people using smaller front tyre width to make the handling a lot better. it really make me feeling bad to stick with all rounded tyre size for design practicability

1 Like

It seems the poor braking performance of the entries you’ve reviewed thus far is mostly due to disc brakes simply not having been invented in 1946, though there are also other factors. Let’s face it: building a dynamically unimpeachable and highly drivable car 70 years ago was a much taller order than it is now!

And @Denta is right about using staggered tire sizes (wider at the rear than at the front) to improve drivability.

Also, even if there were no upper engineering time limit for a car or its engine, whatever abomination @TheUltimateD00M came up with would have been rejected on the spot for being too unreliable, expensive and plain ugly - it isn’t what an early postwar car is supposed to look like. I really should have made my car’s exterior much more stylish, though, and retuned its suspension for less understeer, as well as reducing brake fade.

So that’s a whole bunch of entries out the window… But I don’t know which user’s entry to put money on.

i knew that i may have been reaching with my plan, but at least my unique approach was not unnoticed

lol reducing brake fade, I’d be surprised if anybody achieved more than two of the following:

  • Brake fade under 10%
  • 0-100km/h in under 20s
  • Wheelspin under 30%

:joy:

ok so those are slightly exaggerated figures, but you get my point

the magic of tech slider, still able to do 9sec 0-100 with 220+km/h top speed and my wheelspin still under 15% IIRC :stuck_out_tongue:

anyone in manage to get close 50:50 weight distribution?

I had the choice of a V12 and 328bhp to make 52.5/47.5 weight distribution. Or I could go with a V8 with 211bhp and 50.8/49.2. If I had gone with ladder frame steel I could have had a 50/50 with a slightly smaller V12. But then the car would have weighed like 1300kg and handled like a pig.

Also like many people here I poured a shit ton of tech into tyres and brakes and I still got horrendous brake fade because I wanted lots of go so I went with 215/80R11 (yes, I know they weren’t labelled like that then). Hence, 6.2s from 0-100km/h :laughing: That’d probably have been enough to soil the pants of most everybody short of Carraciola.

Uh I did not find time to write more backstory for my model so I guess not much chance for top spot…well at least it’s unique compared to whole lot of coupes.

“Top Gear for the Forties” is already a hell of a backstory :stuck_out_tongue:

3 Likes

Oddly enough, I just barely managed all of these without any tech sliders as it didn’t think it’d fit the canon of the company at the time. But 0-100 in a slothenly 18.4 seconds with 0.0% wheel spin and only 9.3% fade…however, my braking distance of over 100 metres was truly awful. :joy:

100 metres yes a bit much LOL.

That being said, it pays to remember that with the tech of the day, average stopping distance from 100km/h was indeed somewhere around the 60m mark. To quote a randome source which quotes a manual from 1941…

The narrow tires with a small contact area and small brake drums limit braking effectiveness. The stopping distance is much longer in older cars than in newer models. As noted on the headlight repair page, [Whitney 1941 32] gives the average stopping distance of 193 feet for a car going 50 MPH with brakes in “first class condition” on dry level concrete. Contrast to that to a test of a 2007 BMW which is able stop in 89 feet on dry pavement or just 195 feet when stopping from 70 MPH on wet pavement with new tires.

2 Likes

i think it oversteers alot

i got close 0% fade with absolutely no quality. and also 0% wheelspin :stuck_out_tongue:
0-100km/h in 25s. rough draft was doing 18s. 100-0 is at 46.7m though.
so, in that era, in the event of a crash. my car is more likely to be hit from behind than it would be hitting whatever is in front :joy:

4 Likes

Mine had values 54% 23% and 33% of those (though not in that order).
Granted, a rear engine goes a long way to remedy two of out of the three.

Really? Well BMWs should be driven on the ROADS…Pavements are for people.

Then again they are BMW drivers!!! :laughing:

4 Likes

NormanVauxhall - Znopresk Z6746

$40000 - 94/44PU - 38ET - Limited Production x2

Stanton:
Wow! That’s all I can say. The Znopresk Z6746 is nothing short of stunning. The chrome trim and the classic cream color perfectly encapsulate the best of 40s styling. Today, the Z6746 is remembered as much for its luxurious interior as its huge 6.7L V12. No other car at this show commands as much of a presence as this car. Without a doubt, this is the car I want for our documentary… but can we afford it?

Martin:
Unfortunately, the Z6746 is out of our budget. The production run of this car was already limited with its aluminum panels and expensive interior, but its use of advanced tires and brake technology make it even more rare. We’ll definitely have to put this one of our list for the next documentary!

Mike:
I’m really impressed with the design of the Z6746. Despite being the heaviest car here by far, it manages to have very reasonable handling. And oh man, it’s so spacious in the cabin. No other car even comes close in personal accommodations.
The big 6.7L V12 is designed to run on low octane unleaded fuel, and it’s laughably inefficient. It produces just 166hp from its huge displacement, although this actually works in the car’s favor. Less power means less wheelspin and better braking, and you still have all the displacement you need to compensate for any personal deficiencies. The pistons and conrods seem a little heavier than they need to be, though.

DracoAutomations - Premx5

$12200 - 63/15PU - 23ET - Limited Production x1

Stanton:
What is this car doing here? The car’s owner doesn’t even seem to be around. There’s no story, no company, and with a name like “Pre-MX5”, I can only conclude that this is a one-off track car made in somebody’s backyard.

Martin:
Well I suppose this car is cheap…

Mike:
Hahaha. That 34hp engine would be insufficient to power my grandma’s lawnmower. 0-60 takes over 20 seconds, and the quarter mile a few seconds more than that. The steering is poor and there’s basically no interior. This car looks like it was hastily slapped together.

AirJordan - Smooth Zipp

$48400 - 143/77PU - 39ET - Limited Production x3

-DISQUALIFIED- due to excessive cost (maximum estimated cost was $40000). Also wrong year.
It’s a shame, because this was probably my favorite car. Comically expensive and hard to produce, and still barely average in most areas. Sure, there were worse cars, but this one is my favorite because of how far it missed the point of the contest. :wink:

HowlerAutomotive - Howler Rogue R12

$28800 - 93/93PU - 39ET - Limited Production x2

Stanton:
This car looks great. The racing pedigree of the R12 is readily apparent, with the white stripes, the swoopy fastback, and the badass side intake. And what a pedigree it has. Equally famous on the track, on the screen, and in pop culture, the R12 would be a perfect fit for our documentary. I want it!

Martin:
Sorry guys, I hate to be a spoilsport… but this car is definitely out of our budget. The spaceframe and aluminum panels were difficult enough to produce, but that Swiss clock of an engine was the real limiting factor. It’s a shame, I really would have liked to see more of these.

Mike:
Holy crap, I think I’m in love. That 1.5L V12 is so, so, awesome. Revving up to 9000RPM and producing 140hp, the crazy engineers at Howler managed to produce nearly 100hp/liter in 1946. That just blows my mind.
The performance and handling of this car is also fantastic. It can go 0-60 in 6.3 seconds, stop from 60 in under 40m, and corner at nearly 1G. It’s an absolute joy to drive. If we can’t get this car for the show, I may have to figure out a way to buy one for myself…

Thecarlover - Solo Velociraptor

$33400 - 111/55PU - 36ET - Limited Production x2

Stanton:
The Solo Velociraptor certainly has the looks and prestige to go up against the big boys. While the exterior is maybe a little bland, the fit and finish is phenomenal, and the car is extremely high-quality all around. This is without a doubt the most classy way possible to climb snow hills and dirt tracks.

Martin:
Yeah… with only 1582 units produced in total, this is another car that’s too rare for our budget.

Mike:
This car is pretty awesome. I love all the offroad features it has. This is a performance car that feels just as much at home on a dirt trail as it does on the track. It’s a shame that it’s such a rarity now, I bet no one is willing to get such a classic car dirty anymore. Unfortunately, those offroad features mean a lot of extra weight, and the chunky tires can’t really handle the engine’s 220hp. I also have to wonder how useful that convertible top would be in Canada…

Koolkei - Velo C-T

$11200 - 64/13PU - 22ET - Limited Production x0

Stanton:
Uhh… I won’t deny that the ironically named Velo C-T may have been an important car for its time, but I’m pretty sure I said that we weren’t looking for a Mini. In the future, we might do a documentary on influential cheap cars, but for what we are working on now, the Velo C-T would seem terribly out of place.

Martin:
Do you really have to ask me if this car would fit our budget?

Mike:
Okay, putting the Velo C-T’s absolute shitbox status aside, I can appreciate how important this car was. Being one of the very few cars for the masses of the time, the Velo C-T was inexpensive and offered good reliability and competent handling. By modern standards, the interior is abysmal and the engine is laughable, but at the time, just having a car that was widely affordable was a feat in itself. This car gets my respect.

Strop - Quicksilver

$38800 - 117/119PU - 47.5ET - Limited Production x2

Stanton:
Awwww yeah. This car just makes me salivate. That V12… that insane performance… that unbeatable racing pedigree. The Quicksilver is nothing short of a legend. The styling is actually a little more unassuming than I would have expected… but I don’t care. I want this car.

Martin:
Well, going from the Velo C-T to this is quite the leap… you can probably guess what I’m going to say. Yeah, I would have loved to have this car on the show, too. Just check out that engine, man! That shit’s ridiculous.

Mike:
Wow. With a 0-60 time of 6.2 seconds and a quarter mile time of under 14 seconds, this is clearly a car designed for going fast. What it is not designed for is slowing down or stopping. The Quicksilver’s track performance is undeniable, and it’s capable of beating even the Howler Rogue R12 by significant margins. But personally, I would probably still choose the Howler over this. Driving is a lot easier and more fun when you don’t have to worry about running off the side of the road due to piss-poor brakes.

Rk38 - DHB 636 Special

$26400 - 94/21PU - 26ET - Limited Production x1

Stanton:
The DHB 636 Special is quite the looker. The front end is a little derpy-looking in my opinion, but the rear… hot damn, the rear looks amazing. This car certainly has a rich history, deeply intertwined with the war and political strife of the country of Anikatia. I have a lot of respect for that, but unfortunately the 636 doesn’t match up to some of the other cars here.

Martin:
This car is on the high end of our budget, but we can still afford it. I’m not sure that this would be the car I choose though.

Mike:
Okay, I may have just criticized the Quicksilver for poor braking, but this… this is a whole new level. The 60mph stopping distance is an absolutely terrifying 130.38m. That’s nearly twice as bad as any other car here. If you find yourself in the 636 Special and there’s an obstacle in your way… it’s probably a better bet to just jump out of the car.

Oppositelock - GSI Balneus

$18600 - 75/41PU - 38ET - Limited Production x0

Stanton:
Ugh. The Balneus seems like a pretty decent car, but the bland styling and unappealing paintjob won’t look good on camera at all. The car has a reasonable amount of prestige, but I haven’t really heard much history about it at all.

Martin:
Wow! I’m impressed. A mass-produced sports car with excellent handling and performance? Sign me up!

Mike:
I have to say, this car is brilliantly engineered. It’s got a fantastic balance of handling, performance, and comfort, all while being inexpensive and produced in high volumes. It feels like a little brother to the Howler Rogue R12 - one that’s far more affordable while being more comfortable to boot. The small-displacement, high-revving V8 certainly feels familiar, and while it ‘only’ revs to 6000RPM, it manages to be way simpler and easier to produce.

6 Likes

At this rate it looks like a two-horse race between @strop and @HowlerAutomotive for the outright round win; their cars were far ahead of their time in terms of performance. On the other hand, @oppositelock seems like a dark horse to me.

Nah can’t be me, my car was definitely the hardest to produce and way up the high end of the budget.

Also yes I acknowledge using 12" rims would have helped immensely. It’s like when I switch from an M4 to a LaFerrari in Assetto Corsa and promplty destroy the car because even though the Ferrari’s brakes are superb, it has ludicrous amounts of go. Now imagine ludicrous amounts of go in the 40s coupled with average brakes…

@abg7 I’m sure the winner will surprise you then :wink:

CSR21 Final Results

Third place (tie)
NormanVauxhall - Znopresk Z6746
Incredibly comfortable, very prestigious, and with surprisingly good drivability. The Znopresk exudes class and luxury. Unfortunately, it’s just a bit too expensive and difficult to produce.

Third place (tie)
HowlerAutomotive - Howler Rogue R12
The Rogue gets lots of love for its excellent handling and all-around performance, as well as that sweet, sweet V12 engine. Like the Znopresk, it’s just too difficult to produce to fit our budget.

Second place
Oppositelock - GSI Balneus
Simply an amazing feat of engineering. Great handling, solid performance, very comfortable - all achieved along with mass production. But while all of that is commendable, we are making a documentary here. We need a car that looks good on camera and has a story to tell.

First place
Madrias - Devillain DR6
This car wasn’t the best in any one category. It’s not the most prestigious, not the best handling, and certainly not the fastest. But what the Devillain DR6 did the best was capture the spirit of the competition - balancing prestige with production capability. It has the looks and the history to match the prestige. And it’s one of the least expensive cars by production units and engineering time. Yeah, the handling isn’t the best, but luckily we can edit that stuff out in post :wink:

Thanks to everyone for participating in this round! I really enjoyed the variety of cars I received. And also kudos for all the wonderful visual designs you guys came up with!

Congratulations to Madrias!

6 Likes

At long last @Madrias wins a round… with something so well-balanced it could be easily improved in certain areas and still win by some margin! Well done. I wonder what ideas he will give us in the next round?