The Car Shopping Round (Round 64): Tears in Heaven

Ah a small misspell 427 SOHC or a FE series not the 335 and I am using aftermarket block specs…unfortunately I cannot change the valve positioning to replicate the real thing but meh, I really wish ford had made the mod motors using the standard 390 bore and stroke as a stroker crank for the 5.4 from bryant is far too expensive and I am not part of the blower brigade however a direct drive procharger would be awesome…off topic sorry but I love my Ford’s too

Edit: @KLinardo you are correct (dammit schooled twice in 15 mins) so the 335 was the cleveland 302/351/400M right? and the 385 is the 429/460?

Edit: @abg7

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The 429 is a 385 Series. The 335 series were the midsize blocks.

I’m with you on wishing to recreate the motors, but close enough will have to do.

For comparison, my entry weighs almost 1.7 metric tons even with aluminum panels, but if I had used an NA V8 instead, it may have been even heavier. To be fair, though, I had to use the larger version of the not-1-series body just to accommodate the turbo I6 (an undersquare one, mind you, where the bore is smaller than the stroke) I ended up using.

that’s an uphill struggle, but RISE TO IT!!!

@strop i’m honestly suprised how many went for the Hypercar rout, i thought it would be 75/25 to toothless, but it seems to be about 50/50.

I’ve had the chance to look at the entries now, there’s currently 8 of them, and you’re actually right, the ratio is 75:25 so far. That’s what I was hoping for too, despite just how confusing my brief was.

heh. oversquared i4 > undersquared i6. imo.
i mean, the point of more cylinders is getting more displacement without needing more bore/stroke, so the engine could rev higher and get more specific output.

so a lower specific output inline 6 is a waste of engineering time.

at least, that’s my train of thought.

@strop but how many are in the middle? as in not a memphisto high, but not a toothless low. something like an ecoboost mustang?

There’s a big divide between the cars that aren’t aspiring to be Mephisto, and those that are.

So far as I can tell, we have a constellation of entries that range from 150-430hp. And then you have the two batshit insane entries from Darkshine and HighOctaneLove (the power curves make me giggle). So there’s really not much in between a.k.a. “reasonable hypercar” or “somewhat modifiable supercar” as yet.

It turns out my turbo I6 is in its base model tune with 320 bhp, and I deliberately made it that way to give Kai a blank slate to tinker with. That engine is capable of cranking out even more power (at least 100 more) when tuned properly… but it seems reasonable for a sporty daily driver and falls within the range of such entries for this challenge, not counting the hypercars submitted by @Darkshine5 and @HighOctaneLove. Considering how difficult it is to replace Mephisto, I am actually relieved that I ultimately chose not to do so, even though it was my original plan…:slight_smile:

mine, suprisingly, fit’s in the former, despite looking a bit insane

hmm surprisingly similiar power output… dunno about specific output though.
that said, i even have an engine variant capable of more than 100hp more than what i’m using.

but as i said earlier, i’m aiming for a entry-level premium sports car, and not a budget one.
and if you’re aiming the same market, then it’ll be a bit of a competition between us :smiley:

If we’re trying to replace Mephisto, do we also have to beat other GG cars as well? Because I can surpass Mephisto in several categories, but not cars like Ouroboros or Lilith. It might be easier (and cheaper) to just gift Kai one of those instead, would it not?

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Well the 302 was always a Windsor motor. The Boss 302 used Cleveland heads. There was both a 351 Windsor and Cleveland and the 400 was only a Cleveland engine. However most of those engines were officially part of the 335 Series. The 429 came out as a shorter stroke performance variant of the 460 that was used in the big cars. The 460’s block had a stroke of 3.85", hence the name.

I forget what engine spawned the 335 Series name…

In challenge news, I’m probably within striking distance of Mephisto with some Mustang inspired bits hanging on. Who knew you could find well over 1500 HP in a Voodoo block from a GT350. Now I need to figure out suspension…

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So everyone is on and on about replacing hypercar. Since I haven’t submitted my Saabro yet (not sure what I want regarding production and if it makes sense with what I build) I gave it a try.
I love it. It has driveability 2. It looks minimalistic, soooo not Mephisto. But oh gawd yes :slight_smile: now I’m tempted to even tune Saabro to 11…

HyperSwede. for the architect that REALLY needs to design a hous fast.

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ding ding! You’ve caught onto one of the essential conundrums of this challenge, only possible if you’ve been paying attention to the smaller details of the brief plus the company history.

Ouroboros is a good car, no doubt, and a strong contender because it has relatively low running costs (just the insurance premium is exorbitant, otherwise it’s extremely reliable and frugal, but also bloody fast). On the graph in the flowchart it’d be somewhere approaching the ??? corner of things as a very daily driver friendly hypercar. However, to achieve this, it is so highly engineered that Kai can’t really touch anything on it. And it doesn’t rate as high as Mephisto on the out-of-this-world sexiness scale. And it’s aiming to be far more common than exclusive, it’s basically aiming to trigger some kind of automotive armageddon by putting hypercar performance in the hands of people who would otherwise buy a low-medium spec Porsche 911.

Lilith, well, it’s a prototype that will never make production. But to be honest Kai would do anything to have that car, regardless of spec, because it presses his buttons (just the looks of it, for starters). In fact, it would go so far beyond replacing the Mephisto in his garage that we have decided that there’s no point considering it because no matter what we do with the car it’s already Kai’s, so that’s kinda moot.

So yes, the implicit challenge is really in what way will you surpass Mephisto that nobody can deny this is the car Kai definitely wants? You’ll never surpass it in every single way, but then again, neither do any of the other cars mentioned. It’s a gamble at the pointy end.

##Are you ready for something special?

Solo Motors Co. is proud to introduce the all-new 2017 Lightning SSM V8 Special.

Limited to 30 examples, this is the more analog version of the ludicrous Lightning SSM for the purist drivers. While new technology improves performance but we realise there are some enthusiasts who want to be in full control of their driving and the Lightning SSM V8 special was designed with that in mind. With a manual transmission, geared LSD, and air suspension, you can be sure that the driving it is unlike any other modern hypercar.

0-100 km/h in 2.8 seconds.

Top speed of 444 km/h.

Quarter mile in 9.26 seconds.

Laps the Green Hell under 7 minutes.

This is done with a 5.5L turbocharged V8 producing 1294 hp, 911 ft-lb of torque and revving up to 8600 RPM. Even with this level of performance, we’ve made sure the car is fairly drivable off the track as well. We’ve included a good quality basic infotainment system, basic safety features, sport compound tires, and it still manages 13.2 L/100 km. Traction control, ABS, and ESV are also included to help the daily drive but can be disabled to give the car a proper thrashing on the track.

At $650,000, the Lightning SSM V8 Special is also a much more affordable alternative to the existing supercars.

For the design we wanted to create something new and memorable. The organic shapes are in line with other modern hypercars but remain distinctive. We exclusively used LED and laser lights to create a lighting shapes that will be instantly recognisable while following the dynamic forms of the air intakes and bodywork. The exhausts are located on top of the engine in order to keep the rear lines clean and to divert more air through the active wing.


Solo Motors Co. is proud to submit the 2017 Lightning SSM V8 Special as a possible new track car for Kai Kristensen of Gryphon Gear. We believe that the analog features will offer the tinkerability that his current GG Mephisto lacks, even with the advanced engineering we’ve used, and it should provide a different driving dynamic than that of cars he is already driving for work. A downforce underbody was also ruled out for tinkerability, and we went with a fully clad design optimised for the high speed dynamics of the car. We also made sure to submit something with a design he might enjoy, such as the LED and laser lighting that includes the rear amber indicators required to be legal on Australian roads. Storm Grey, while one of the classic Lightning colours, was also what we consider to be the best match for what he desires in a car. The car should arrive at your company headquarters shortly for testing and we thank you for your purchase consideration.

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At last… A third hypercar enters the contest, and… It looks like a McLaren P1, but is more powerful still, and actually feels like a Hennessey Venom GT (manual transmission and mechanical LSD) in spirit. However, I would like to ask one question: Can Kai tinker with air suspension as easily as standard or progressive springs, if at all? At any rate, you have made a very convincing case for replacing Mephisto, which I could not bring myself to do.

Believe it or not, I actually had a plan C for this round: submitting a muscle car that could handle really well in the corners, defying Kai’s preconceived notions about American iron in the process. I built just that, and even used the factory tabs, but ultimately did not submit it because I feared it would incorporate too many advanced suspension components (semi-active dampers and sway bars) for Kai’s liking, and although its MOHV crossplane V8 developed over 400 bhp (on 91 RON), it was also thirstier than expected, leading to higher running costs. At least it was lighter, since I used the smaller version of the body that my actual submission (powered by a turbo I6) would use.

@strop is right about the economy benefit provided by DOHC, and even if fuel consumption were not a concern, I was worried that the extra power and torque, combined with narrower tires on each corner, would compromise drivability, although the simplicity of MOHV confers greater reliability. Oddly, the hypercar I originally wanted to enter was even less economical, though it was due to the turbos being configured for huge power rather than economy.

Moreover, @strop is spot on regarding the drawbacks of any kind of spring not made of steel - in my own companies, the increased cost, fuel consumption and weight, combined with the loss of reliability that it causes, negates any stat improvements they provide to the point that they are never considered, even as options. Tinkering with them is a nightmare for Kai, so I went with passive springs on each of the three cars I proposed for this challenge.

Finally, @thecarlover settled on a basic interior and entertainment suite, but I never considered this Spartan consideration to be sufficient - he criticized a car from @asdren in the previous round for an inadequate entertainment system, which jarred with the otherwise upmarket interior. Prestige cars need a premium interior and infotainment system at least to be competitive. A really competitive hypercar should use a sport interior, which weighs as much as a standard one but offers more prestige, and at least a premium infotainment system to go with it. Luxury (or even handmade) interiors and entertainment systems add too much weight and cost for me, and compromise reliability to boot. Safety is also a key component for competitiveness - the weight savings provided by inferior safety suites are not worth the loss of safety, which can make sales in some regions impossible.

Well, consistent with the rules of the challenge, air shocks are harder to deal with than springs. The rates wouldn’t be adjustable from the confines of the garage. But in this context more significantly active suspension is harder to deal with still (though one could argue that one could actually set up active suspension more easily if the car had a control interface to allow this). Trivia: Gryphon Gear do not like active springs in their own cars, it’s heavy and uses power.

MOHV is far less efficient than DOHC setups, despite the weight advantage. I would only use it if fuel economy were not a significant concern and I wanted a larger displacement in itself. But I never do: displacement’s only as good as what it yields IMHO.

In 2014, Kron GmbH created the 7th generation of the legendary K3. Here is a sneak preview of their creation.

[hide=]I hate it when I “save for internet” and it slows down my gif.[/hide]

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i made a mockup of a hypercar in about 10 mins…it did not go too well

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