Thank you guys for that info as I will definitely implement that into the current car and see what results I get.
Much appreciated FRFR!!!
May the best car win!!
3 Likes
Also, since I rarely ever use staggered wheel sizes, oversteer usually means the wheels are too wide in general (in my case at least). Just a to for more pedestrian cars.
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Those numbers you see on the steering graph are percentage multipliers. 85% drivability is pretty bad, it means that 35.4 number on the left is after a penalty. If you had 100% drivability on the steering graph it would be 41.6 instead! For a sports car you usually want to aim for 100% sportiness and at least over 90% drivability.
Those are your scores compared to computer-generated/NPC cars, where 100 means you’re equal and say, 200 means you’re twice as good. But remember, those cars are crap! Any human-designed car tends to be much better than those cars right now. The market numbers don’t matter unless you’re playing campaign, and even then they’re going away in the next update. These numbers can tell if you’re moving in the right direction, but it’s possible to make some awful decisions which any person would balk at, and still have a high score.
For a sports car (or any car in Automation) peak power at redline means your redline is too low! In this case part of the reason is you used hypereutectic cast pistons, which hurt your redline in exchange for improved emissions… but nobody in Japan in the 80’s is even thinking about emissions for a sports car, so that’s a bad choice.
Imagine if you were driving this car: As soon as you hit maximum power, the engine bounces off the limiter and you have to shift. You’ll spend most of your time making less power.
This is true. You can usually do better in Automation but it’s reasonable. However if this is all the power you are making you should aim to get more than 11 miles per gallon.
The in-game warnings do a poor job of explaining the tradeoffs you are making here. First, a terminal oversteer graph like this is bad, it means the car likes to go into an UN-RECOVERABLE spin, not just that it tends towards oversteer.
There are a lot of things you can do to move the car more towards understeer, and I usually try them in this order:
Make the front camber more positive, and the rear camber more negative. This is easy and costs nothing! You have -0.5 in the front and 0.0 in the rear, which is a setup that increases oversteer! Something like 0 in the front and -1 in the rear could be reasonable for this car.
Decrease the rear roll bar, increase the front rollbar. Just keep an eye on your body roll angle, it depends on the total of both. You want body roll around 3-5 degrees for a sports car.
Increase front springs, decrease rear springs. Try not to get them too far apart though.This has a small effect only.
Make the front and rear tires both narrower. This reduces cornering G, but it’s often a reasonable choice. Don’t do this if you’re making lots of wheelspin though.
Make the rear tires wider than the front tires. This is usually only a good choice for rear engine cars, but it’s the most extreme option you have. It comes with a 1.5x tire cost penalty because of the different sizes.
In short, there’s a lot of easy fixes here. The fastest way to learn about some good car design tips is to watch videos, IMO. Killrob (lead game dev for automation!) has some let’s play videos of older versions campaign, if that sounds interesting.
3 Likes
IIRC, I think that the game takes the increased tyre wear into account with increased camber angles, so your tradeoff there is service costs.
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All I wanna know is what an ITB is.
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I need this info while Im designing lol. Im sure most know this info but to me right now this is invaluable.
With every new car comes something new that I’ve learned from playing this game or just in general.
I’m soakin in this information like a sponge and will be back for the next challenge READY!!
Thankyou @SenseiB12
Individual throttle bodies. This is typically something only seen on dedicated track cars, not production vehicles.
Individual Throttle Bodies… in the Fuel tab screen for the engine designer, it’s an option under “Configuration” and it’s labeled “Per Cylinder”. It’s a moderately expensive choice which improves intake airflow a little.
I know some modern cars have or can be modified with an ITB setup as well as a turbo charger, based on some googling, but I’ll just have to take Succulent’s word that it’s an unrealistic choice for the 80’s. I know some attainable 90’s sports cars with small NA engines had ITBs.
Is it? Really? If “driveability” is the opposite of crash likelihood, then, not crashing 85% of the time is pretty good. Have you been on the road lately?
The way I look at the Drivability and Sportiness numbers is like this; if both numbers are the same, then the suspension is balanced between being sporty and being safe. If the sportiness number is too much higher than drivability, the car becomes dangerous. If the drivability number is too much higher than sportiness, the car isn’t any fun to drive. The lateral g’s the car can pull is useful information, even if it doesn’t have anything to do with the balance of the suspension. If you want, PM me your car and I could give you some pointers… not that I’m an engineering king or anything, but I’d like to help if I can.
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85% drivability doesn’t mean anything concrete like this. It’s more an indication of how well optimized your handling balance is for drivability. My car, below, I was willing to sacrifice drivability to reach high sportiness.
And i’ll add as well… the inverse of what you’re saying is that you are crashing 15% of the time you drive, which is not pretty good. I would say that’s terrifying.
4 Likes
You jest, but for the record, just think of that as a 15% penalty to the drivability stat, which is itself abstract and only means anything when compared to other cars. There’s no need to have that penalty from the steering balance, because 100% sportiness can be achieved with more than 85% drivability. In his case, he had 96% sportiness not because of a compromise with drivability, but because the car was too oversteery even for an optimal sporty setup, hurting both stats.
Well… Thats what I get for dropping in a Group B detuned engine
TMCC12 Part 3: The Search Continues...
Kamurocho, Tokyo.
Friday evening, 23rd July 1982
After a tiring week of searching, the subordinate managed to find a few cars to present to the director next week. Searching for a phone, the subordinate reminisced about his tumultuous week.
Basilio Tasmania GT6
The first car he took a look at was the Basilio Tasmania GT6. The design really caught the subordinate’s eye with its mean, Italian look. Upon further inspection, he also found out that it was no slouch and is also very reliable, while having fuel economy and low service costs. However, he felt that in spite of its charming design, it still has some ways to go before he can shortlist it and thus, it’s out.
Pfeil Vogtland Typ B
Later that day, he inspected the Pfeil Vogtland Typ B. At first glance, it looked like the German “People’s Car”. The car was quick and very agile, but it was not very reliable and quite expensive to service although the latter was understandable due to the rear-engine layout. Still, the subordinate thought that the car did not offer enough to justify its high 3.3 million yen price tag and thus he had to let the car go.
Ibis Kestrel 6S
The next day, the subordinate went to inspect the Ibis Kestrel 6S. It looked like something that would come out of the hit American TV show, Knight Rider but he also felt that it could be better. The subordinate liked how reliable, economical, and cheap to service the car is but its performance was about average. The subordinate left this one out because there were simply better options out there.
MAHG Tsi Rapide
After that, the subordinate took a look at the MAHG Tsi Rapide. Much like the Kestrel, it looked like something that came out of Knight Rider. The Rapide, as the name implies, was quite quick and was also very good to drive overall. The subordinate was only concerned about the fuel economy, but he concluded that the car was very well-engineered. The only thing holding it back was the styling which, although not bad, could still be developed further. After giving it some thought over some gyudon, the subordinate ultimately decided to not shortlist the car.
Cabrera Rabion 260
The next morning, the subordinate went to see the Cabrera Rabion 260. Right away, its angular European style and retracting headlights left a strong impression on the subordinate. In addition to that, the car handles very well although, like the Vogtland, service costs were a bit on the high side due to the rear engine layout. Still, the subordinate that the style and performance would silence any concerns about service costs. And with that, the subordinate shortlisted the car.
Homura GT2000i SAV
Right after that, the subordinate visited the Homura dealer to see the GT2000i SAV. The subordinate liked its futuristic appearance, especially at the back. The rest of the car was a solid 10 too. Reliability was also solid, being the most reliable entry out of the entire competition. Handling was superb and service costs were low, making the GT2000i a very good car for the show. The subordinate decided to shortlist the car.
CESMA Rossignol Turbo Coupe
After grabbing lunch, the subordinate went to see the last car for the day: the CESMA Rossignol Turbo Coupe. Although the car was tame, fuel efficient, and cheap to service, it was not did not offer much to stand out from the other cars the subordinate were looking at. Still, he liked how undeniably French the car looked, with its angular lines and big “Turbo” lettering. But alas, the subordinate had to drop the car.
Quezon Laguna RMX Turbo
@variationofvariables / @Falling_Comet
The next morning, the subordinate met up with a grey importer at the Shibaura Pier who claimed to have a very special version of the Quezon Laguna. And it was special indeed. Its Suisei-sourced engine was the most powerful out of the entire competition at 260hp. With its very muscular bodykit and, red and gold paint scheme that somehow reminded the subordinate of Marilyn, the Laguna certainly looked the part. And with that, the subordinate shortlisted the car.
KPS KS6
After a long trip from the pier, the subordinate went to see the KPS KS6. He thought that the car looked alright, but that was about it. Even though the car was easy to drive, comfortable, fuel efficient, and cheap to repair, the car just didn’t do it for the subordinate. And with that, the subordinate went to see the next car.
Durendal GTC
The last car for Thursday was the Australian Durendal GTC. The subordinate thought that the car had a nice look going for it, and that it was suitable for the show. But the car also had a lot more going for it. It was very well-engineered, quick, and nimble while also being driver friendly, and fuel economy was quite decent. The subordinate decided to shortlist the car for the director’s approval.
Seikatsu Regalia 4.0J Deluxe Coupe
Earlier in the day, the subordinate took a look at the Seikatsu Regalia 4.0J Deluxe Coupe. It was monstrously decadent, with its two-tone paint, landau roof, luxuriously-appointed interior, and the big V8 engine. In addition to being very comfortable (second only to the IP Ocelot), it also handled great. Like other Regalias, it was practically bulletproof and cheap to service. The subordinate thought that it might look too fancy and plush for the show, but the director might think otherwise and so he shortlisted the car.
Arlington Foxhound Preproduction
The last car in the subordinate’s list was the pre-production Arlington Foxhound. Despite much hype in America surrounding its launch for 1983, the subordinate was not convinced with how it looked. he also found out that its performance was quite average and that it was quite thirsty. So despite the compelling offer from the company, the subordinate had to deny this one.
“…”
Entering the phone booth in front of him, he called the studio, who kindly redirected the call to the director’s office.
“Hello?” the director said.
“Good evening sir, it’s me.” the subordinate said “I have found a selection of cars that you might be suitable for the show.”
“That’s great!”
“Indeed it is, sir. When should I schedule the test drive?”
“Tomorrow is good! And don’t forget that the owner is going to come see the cars too, so they better be good!”
“O-of course, sir!”
“Good! Splendid! I’ll be waiting at the studio at 8.00 sharp! Don’t be late!”
“Yes, sir!”
To be continued
14 Likes
You made the right decision in picking the top five - they hit the spot more than the others. On top of that, some entries came close (including mine) but fell short for some reason. It might be due to the fact that the body set resembling the A70 Supra/E90 Corolla (across all sizes) looks a bit too sleek, soft and rounded for 1982 - back then, angular shapes were all the rage.
2 Likes
TMCC12 Part 4: The Finals
Houshou Studios, Nerima, Tokyo.
8.15, Saturday, 24th July 1982
Today was the day. The owner and director will take their pick for Abunai Keisatsu’s new car. In preparation for this, the subordinate asked the dealers to bring the cars to the studio. The subordinate also called upon the help of the show’s stunt driver.
“Where the hell is she?” the director asked, “For the charismatic owner of a movie studio and shipping company, she’s not a very good role model for her underlings.”
“Even so, many of us still look up to her.” the subordinate said, “Maybe because she’s got the exaggerated swagger of a 30-year old cospla- oof!”
Marilyn showed up behind the two, hitting the subordinate for speaking the truth.
“Who are you calling 30?” Marilyn asked, “You should all know by now that I am 17 years old.”
“That’s what you said two, no, three years ago.” the director remarked, “Besides, what took you so long, boss? You’re not setting up a very good example for the rest of us!”
“Shut up!” Marilyn exclaimed, “I can terminate both of your contracts as I wish!”
“Haha, sorry ma’am.” the director chuckled, “Now, let’s go to the car park. The cars should be ready.”
The three walked out to the car park where they were greeted by the sight of the cars, along with the stunt driver who was inspecting the Laguna.
“Ah, Mr Director!” the driver exclaimed, “These are some pretty good cars you managed to round up!”
“Oh, spare the flattery!” the director replied as he walked towards the Rabion, “It was my subordinate here that did it, anyway.”
“Now, let’s see what we’ve got…”
(From this point on I’ll be writing from a 3rd person perspective because it makes the reviews better)
Cabrera Rabion 260
The Rabion was the first to be tested. As expected of an RR, the Rabion was very manouverable thanks to its very low weight and handling felt very secure for an RR. The director and Marilyn were both also very impressed with the car’s style as it executes several simulated stunts. The test driver complained about brakes that faded just after a few stops from high speeds, but overall the driver and the director both liked the car very much.
Homura GT2000i SAV
The next car to be tested was the GT2000i SAV. It was the cheapest of the bunch, but the car still managed to impress the driver nevertheless. The car remained calm and controlled as the driver put it through its paces, although he also complained about brake fade which, while present, was not as bad as the Rabion’s. The director loved the bold and futuristic styling especially around the back, and was tempted not only by its low price but also its low service costs and very good reliability, even though he knew that the car used drum brakes at the rear and a 4-speed manual when other cars used a 5-speed gearbox and disc brakes on all 4 wheels.
Quezon Laguna RMX Turbo
@variationofvariables / @Falling_Comet
Up next was the Laguna RMX Turbo. Its bold and undeniable presence elicited a smile from the director and a “PUTANG INA” from Marilyn. The driver had other thoughts, however. While the Laguna undeniably had one of the best engines among the lineup, the driver found the car to be a little cumbersome to drive, although this can be attributed to the old chassis and the car’s immense size. Still, he can’t help but smile when experiencing the full might of its 261.3hp on the test course. The Laguna was also just slightly above the allocated budget and was not the most reliable or economical, but its brawn and charisma, along with pure performance, was enough to balance out its flaws.
Durendal GTC
Next up was the GTC. The director and Marilyn were split on the styling. The director liked the GTC decals and unique headlight mechanism, Marilyn thought that the car looked rather plain and that the designers could have added some more flair to it though she did agree that the car looked handsome nevertheless. The driver remarked at how great the GTC was to drive, and also how agile and comfortable the car was. All in all, though, the GTC was a very solid car although the driver also raised concerns about its reliability and service costs given that each of the engine’s eight cylinders had 4 valves.
Seikatsu Regalia 4.0J Deluxe Coupe
The last car to be tested was the Regalia 4.0J Deluxe Coupe. Being based off the Regalia sedan, Marilyn was pleased with the stately appearance of the car but the director thought that it was too pompous for the detectives. Still, as expected of a luxury grand tourer, the Regalia was very easy to drive. Despite its heavy weight, the Regalia did not feel sluggish at all. And even with the premium interior and the automatic transmission, the Regalia was actually quite reliable and cheap to service. In all, both the director and driver approved of the car, though they do still have to consider the other four contenders.
Somewhere in Nerima, 19.00
After a tiring day of evaluating cars, the four headed to a nearby izakaya to discuss their findings over some cold beer and skewers. The place was cramped, but their spirits were high.
“Kanpai!” the group cheered, chugging their pints of beer.
“Phew!” Marilyn puffed, “A cold one after a hard day’s work really hits the spot! All those cars we looked at earlier were all amazing!”
“Indeed it is.” the director replied, “I wish I could feature them all in the show but well, there is only room for one car in Abunai Keisatsu…”
"And that car is..."
Congratulations to @donutsnail (Homura GT2000i SAV) for creating a very compelling sports coupe. Although some parts of the car like its brake fade, 4 speed manual and drum brakes put it somewhat at a disadvantage over the other finalists, it did not deter the car’s performance in any major way. The Homura makes it through with its distinctive styling, reliability, and low running costs. Overall, the drawbacks of the GT2000i are outweighed by the car’s numerous strengths.
2nd. @variationofvariables / @Falling_Comet (Quezon Laguna RMX Turbo)
3rd. @Petakabras (Cabrera Rabion 260)
4th. @66mazda / @Tzuyu_main (Seikatsu Regalia 4.0J Deluxe Coupe)
5th. @GassTiresandOil (Durendal GTC)
Thank you all for participating, you all did very well your own respective ways. Honestly, it was really difficult to decide the winner and even harder to determine the ranks. I apologize for the long wait and I will be looking forward to the next round of TMCC.
(prop car by @Tzuyu_main )
17 Likes
yooooooo The Laguna fared better than I thought considering it was basically a 60s muscle car with a turbo engine swap. The round idea was pretty refreshing and the writeup was pretty good too! ahoy! I’ll be looking forward to the next round. Cong rrats to the winner! Very well deserved
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I’m happy the director and Marilyn were so pleased with the Homura. For a company looking to expand within it’s home market beyond the small and sensible vehicles it’s known for, seeing the GT2000i starring in an adrenaline packed crime drama full of action will help the company shake it’s stodgy reputation.
With that said, I’ll post up a prompt for TMCC13 in the next couple days.
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ahoy
Yeah I reckon we did pretty well for a car that I thought was out of place but would be fun to press into service. Glad you liked it and glad that the tuning worked.
And yeah delta’s styling really sealed the deal.
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The Regalia was actually very well engineered and I considered putting it in the top three, but the landau roof and the general appearance of the car was a little too much for the challenge. If it were for the villain of the show, it would score top marks.
A shame really, but it is what it is.
1 Like