BTW,
thrilled you showed up in my mechanically lacking creation.
2 Likes
Who would have thought side mirrors would be the thing to get me axed
1 Like
yeah I feel so demotivated atm
bonk
Vena you dumb troll I will go grr on you
TMCC11 Part 3
Tier 2 bins (part 2)
Well actually not quite, this is an out of character bin based on design.
Anyways let’s get cranking.
@Marv666 Autodelta Orcinus 3400 V6 AMP (TIE Tier 2, 3)
This is a tidy and relatively stylish but pretty lifeless design. The elements generally work well, although we were under the impression that the giant round lights conflicted with the boxy elements, especially the frumpy front. However, the biggest issue centered around the proportions, the trunk is stretched to oblivion, giving it a best in competition 1030L of cargo space, but made it look very ponderous. The engine was one of the best, but the general engineering would have been overshadowed by more focused entries.
(also we reviewed all the cars on stable, but took pictures on ob…)
@nialloftara Centauri Raider RS (TIE Tier 2, 3)
The general fundamentals are done right, and we do like the front quite a bit, it gives off a fitting, muscular look that isn’t vulgar. However, we’re not sure whether that quite meshes with both the blocky old-school wheels or the even blockier, simplistic rear arrangement. A particular sore spot was the rudimentary rear bumper. The exhaust is awkward, and general design (especially on the sides) is nonexistent. In addition, we also raised concerns about the unfitting lower vent area and smallish door handles. Also those rear reflectors are probably illegal…
@Jaimz FM HiWay GTs (Tier 2, 2)
A period correct car that fits right in the aftermarket (especially the wheels), the general shaping and design has a good base, with a well fitting front vent area, and a pretty nice two tone design. The boxy lights and rounded plate holder work surprisingly well. However, the front lights look rather incomplete, as they don’t wrap around and lack a reflector and internal housings. Concerns were raised over the small door handles and fuel cap. The main issue here is the haphazard front grill, which has no place on a car like this. Also, the exhaust is kinda janky.
The final two are the ones that were closest to passing this round of bins
@conan Millbrook Pescalo Ultima (TIE Tier 2, 1)
There’s quite a bit to like about this. It’s tidy, relatively well done, and has a functional, somewhat premium appearance. The real issue here is the body itself, it has a very funky door line that sours the mood, and the rear looks particularly bulbous. Combined with the nonexistent styling on most of the car, it’s basically one of the least inspiring cars here. Shame cause engineering wise it was one of the more competitive ones.
@abg7 LCE LE5 V8 S (TIE Tier 2, 1)
The best of the Tier 2 bins, this LCE features a very clean approach that has a very premium, but not sporty appearance. While parts are placed well, there are literally no parts in the first place, and fails to stand out from a very competitive set. Some concerns were raised over the rear reflector color, sunroof placement, and whether the rounded body was too modern. It was also very underwhelming engineering wise, lacking many features almost all the other cars had.
4 Likes
It’s not my fault my computer broke…
Sort of… 
1 Like
Maybe I overdid it a bit to get rid of the weird looking dimensions of the W201 body, which are nice for a compact sedan, but just too small (width- and lengthwise) and too high for a full size sedan. I personally felt it gave the car a much more premium and full size sedan look by making it look longer. And I do think I kept it quite in line with the real life cars I used as an example (Hyundai Sonata Y2, Mercedes Benz S-Class W126, Lexus LS400, etc.).
The headlights are indeed a bit of a wild choice for a further clean (maybe a bit lifeless indeed XD) design. It was an attempt to really bring the car to the 1990s, instead of making a design that could just as much be from the 70s. The rear lights have been a victim of the update, as they were just clear in one colour instead of looking like you’re face to face with a tarantula.
Good to know the engine was competitive! With the general engineering, do you mean the relative simple/outdated chassis and suspension choices I made for the car? Or was it lacking in another way?
Anyway, glad I made it this far. As I’m still relatively new to the challenges. And I’m interested to see the finale!
2 Likes
It was a lot softer in character than others, the Munot had the same issues as well.
Also note that the E28 was a bit smaller than other E segment sedans. We’re also not looking for S classes.
Are we getting an ETA/progress report on this at all? Seems a bit silly its dragged in this long, may aswell just assume it was abandoned.
4 Likes
Hello, my computer was sent out for repairs mid December, and it contained a lot of the information needed for the next parts, most notably the photoscenes. So at this moment, we’re working behind the scenes to assign all the ratings. Therefore, some of the cars have already been fully rated, so all that’s needed is to tell it out in a suitable fashion.
As it should be coming back this weekend, I would then be able to take the photos needed much smoothly.
Another issue is that some people’s requests are very hard to find information for, such as the interior.
Oh shit yea, I forgot that your computer got sent off I remember now. Hnng silly moment by me 
.
Hopefully can sort it soon after its back!
1 Like
Right when you said it, it came back, so I’m setting it up and resuming work after I transfer the files.
As in the doorbell ringed
Also I am doing my best to rebuild some of the cars that broke with the texture update, this will also help me gauge better the philosophy of the cars too.
1 Like
6 drafts later…
TMCC11 Part 4
Tier 1 bins
Radio special edition
V1 Vincent: Well hello there, and welcome to Velocity, it’s great to have you back!
V2 Vince: A few episodes ago, we sent out a public request to find a car currently sold in the American market that could at least match the performance of the BMW M5, with a third of the cost. Thanks to readers like you, we have quite the selection of good cars from all over the world to choose from.
First up, nominated by Peter from Albuquerque, New Mexico, the:
@Petakabras Cabrera Boreas COPA (Tier 1, 1)
V2: This is quite the interesting choice, being a bit pricey for what it is, a smaller car that straddles the sport compact tuning culture and the prestigious super sedan class dominated by the M5. It looks the part, having a subtly muscular look, something that we think will age well. That front reminds me heavily of the bulldog my neighbors had when I grew up, it seemed unusually friendly at first glance, but you just had the feeling that it was hiding something sinister.
V1: The 254 hp turbocharged 2.5L inline 4 is a reasonably gutsy but rough unit, with a moderate amount of lag. It managed to push the lightweight liftback to 62 in 6.3 seconds, which is just as quick as the US spec M5 we tested earlier this year, and it did very well in our passing test. The engine pulled strongly all the way to redline, and the transmission was satisfying too.
V2: This lightness means that isn’t just some one-trick bull too, as it genuinely is one of the most fun-to-drive cars we’ve tested this year. , The car feels like a glove, and instinctively rotates around you; maybe being RWD helps. The steering was a real hoot, providing plenty of feedback, and the suspension is very well-tuned, endowing the COPA with handling that rivals top tier sports cars, while allowing a good level of playfulness. On the road, it proves to be very compliant, and its stableness gives the driver plenty of confidence outside the track. It all feels so right.
V1: And that interior, it’s well-appointed and features excellent build quality! The Spanish really know how to put some flair in otherwise boring cars, while maintaining a reasonable level of comfort. It definitely reminds me of some of the Alfa Romeos we’ve driven.
V2: But I feel like while it has all those strong points, I don’t think it’s quite the complete package. That interior is a mess. Who the hell puts most of the controls on an overhead console, it’s impossible to use without taking your eyes off the road for several seconds! Radio and climate controls are mounted way too low, and the horseshoe parking brake is atrocious. A driver’s interior this isn’t In addition, while braking performance was solid, we felt a few fades during our tests. Finally, the most glaring issue would be the fact that they are notorious for intense rusting.
V1: I have to admit when we checked the underbody, there was no sign of rustproofing. Plus, remember when you brought in a reader’s COPA from upstate New York, and the rocker panels were literally eaten from the inside out. It was not a pretty sight.
V2: Cabrera has really been on a trim level spree since the humble and unremarkable Boreas first appeared in 1985, and we have to applaud the COPA for proving that the Spanish have what it takes to compete with the world’s finest sports and super sedans. However, when you are competing against the best of the world, there cannot be any compromises, and we think this is where the COPA falls short.
V1: Unrelated note, have you heard that Cabrera is going to release yet another trim called the biturbo, rumored to feature a twin-turbocharged V6?
V2: Wait what?
Personal notes
This bin was particularly hard to make, but we do have standards. As one of the lightest and smallest vehicles in the whole competition, this stylish liftback has the second highest sportiness rating of the competition and had some of the best handling to boot. Unfortunately, it was also one of the slowest here, and there definitely were some corners cut.
Schedule
oof…
I was supposed to finish this over Christmas break, however, my computer sprung up a fan issue in the start of December, and I had to send it back to the manufacturer for repair, and it only got back the day before I started school. I was not able to continue on it during the downtime, because the files that I needed to take the photos were on that computer. Fortunately, they didn’t touch the SSD.
Anyways, I’m back in college and facing an exponentially increasing amount of work (engineering). While I will work on it incrementally when time allows, I am not confident enough to say that I can get this done any time soon, despite having the engineering reviews basically finished. This is because it is my duty to you to provide an engaging and immersive write up that is as holistic and realistic as possible that does Motorweek proud. I think the wait time is worth it, hopefully, you guys will agree. Plus images take quite a bit too.
My goal? To get this done in May, and earlier if possible. Right after my first year of college ends.
FINALISTS
@mart1n2005
@vero94773
@donutsnail
@george_m997
@ProfessorP3PP3R
@S_U_C_C_U_L_E_N_T
@Tzuyu_main
@S31
Thanks to @Executive for the cones
this is not a csr
11 Likes
After hearing recent news regarding the update, I will stay on stable as long as possible. First part should be out during the second two day “break”
1 Like
TMCC11 Part 4
Final Group Review Introductions
'88 Sports Sedans Comparo
The sports sedan has long been an enigma of the automotive industry, combining the near incompatible standards of comfort, practicality, and performance. Thus, the people who are willing to spend on such cars may be some of the most demanding consumers around. We recently decided to bring together 7 of the top sports sedans that are attainable for most new car buyers.
While the early generations of sports sedans were almost exclusively European, their modern counterparts hail from all around the world, with two representing domestic brands. All of them are less than $20,500, which we believe allows for a reasonable blend of affordability and all-around performance.
Almost half our group are built in France, including the $16,690 Courageux 100 CSR-Lynx, the $15,925 Axion Sirene XS, and the $17,510 MAHG Upsilon 25 Turbo 88, which are all new for this year.
From Japan comes the just released Seikatsu Prince 3 0GT Turbo-F, with a $16,895 base price, along with the $17,200 Hinode Tempest GT.
And finally, representing the domestics, are the long serving $17,355 Turbol Centurion 4 0 ZR and our price leader, the $14,955 Silver-York Concorde-Z.
We will ignore pricing, at least for now, and focus on what matters most in this segment: outright performance, driver involvement, daily practicality, comfortable motoring, and quality engineering
Personal notes
Everyone’s getting their own separate post, I do not recommend commenting until all 7 finalists are posted. Hopefully two posts per week
You might be wondering why one car is missing…
Final bin
@george_m997 (TIE Tier 2, 1)
Yeah, this one somehow escaped my Tier 2 bins…
The front balances muscular sportiness with tidy Japanese/Indonesian practicality, giving a sense of restrained aggressiveness. It features good proportions, and is very period correct. I especially like the headlights, well done grills and lower vents. The hood scoop is also one of the better ones here, it blends in well while giving an air of usability.
Unfortunately, it falls apart on the sides and rear. Let’s focus first on the barren rear. The rear lights do not have proper wraparound (there is nothing wrong with the layout though), and I think a darker lens would have worked better, plus it would be better differentiated with thicker borders. Plus, to fit the sport theme, I think the middle bar should be blacked out, which includes the license plate indent. The exhaust hole is poorly made and the borders clip with the actual exhaust, ruining an otherwise good layout. There is nothing done on the rear bumper otherwise.
The nonexistent styling on the side does nothing to match the front and rear, which are already quite mismatched together. Overall, it looks like two cars got cut and shut together.
While it was indeed one of the quickest here, with a good amount of power and overall forgivable driving manners, it would have fallen to more uncompromising entries, thanks to its poorly optimized engine, terrible brakes, and nervous rear suspension.
Also, I realized that I rebuilt the rear lights incorrectly, so here’s an original picture from the creator. My points still apply though regardless.
this is not a csr
8 Likes
Praise be, its a miracle!
4 Likes
TMCC11 Part 4
'88 Sports Sedans Comparo
Axion Sirene XS
In alphabetical order, we start with the Axion Sirene XS, the French automaker’s first foray into the performance sedan market.
Its stark design hasn’t been as well-received as its engine, a dual overhead cam 3.5L 24 valve flat-6 presenting 301 horsepower in a sports car-like manner.
Despite all this power, wheelspin is unthinkable, as power is delivered through all 4 wheels through a 5-speed manual gearbox, helping it lunge to 62 mph in 5.8 seconds towards a quarter-mile time of 14.23 seconds. The engine has very linear delivery, pulling strong to the redline. We felt that the gearbox has frustratingly long gear ratios, with a heavy clutch and a bulky, stiff action. This severely hampered its potential performance as the engine’s peakiness requires it to be revved hard to make the most of its power, necessitating constant shifting.
The all-wheel drive system along with stiffer sports suspension and anti-roll bar compared to other Sirenes, gives it secure handling in normal driving conditions, but the harshest ride of the group. This, combined with Z-rated performance tires and an aero kit, endows the Sirene XS with flat high speed cornering. However, we found an annoying tendency for the rear to skip around and become unstable mid-corner, and the vague power steering made it difficult to gauge the limits of its handling.
The all-disc anti-lock brakes gave it a short stopping distance of 114 feet from 62 mph, only behind the Turbol. We found a tendency for the rear to lock up slightly before the ABS kicked in, but stops were straight, and fade was never an issue.
One of the first things you notice on the interior is a faux wood accent on the dash, which livens up the plush-looking interior greatly. We wish the fit and finish were as good as the materials and design. A driver’s airbag is standard, along with seat-belt tensioners. We enjoyed the large, simple, and easy to read gauges that provided all the driving information we needed. The light control and the trip computer are located on the control pod to the left of the driver; both are easy to see and use, as are the controls for the automatic climate control that are mounted high on the dash. Lower down, the radio controls are well marked and easy to reach. The very firm seats give plenty of support and have a good bit of padding. We appreciated the standard power adjustments with seat position memory and heated seats, along with the steering that adjusts for tilt, and the split folding design of the rear seats. The spacious trunk holds 22.6 cubic feet of cargo and the cabin is the largest of the group.
8 Likes
TMCC11 Part 4
'88 Sports Sedans Comparo
Courageux 100 CSR-Lynx
Next up is the Courageux 100 CSR-Lynx. When the 100 was first introduced 3 years ago, it would pioneer a distinctly European, yet modern and smooth styling that would propagate across the Courageux lineup.
For 1988, Courageux’s venerable single overhead cam 12 valve inline-6 receives a turbocharger, individual throttle bodies, and forged internals for performance duty, pushing out 276 hp to the rear wheels.
With a strong launch, it gets to 0-62 mph in 5.8 seconds and down the quarter-mile in 14.1 seconds. Power delivery is strong and smooth, but only after the turbochargers wake up at 3000 RPM. Its general acceleration was also hindered by a 5-speed manual transmission with gear ratios that were too short to take advantage of its power, made worse by a bulky and stuff action that made it hard to use, and a very heavy clutch.
The Courageux has a clear preference for comfortable cruising than being hustled in the corners. At the high-speed corners of Roebling Road, it exhibited very sloppy behavior, not surprising knowing that it was the second heaviest car in our group. While it makes the best out of its standard road tires, it feels very loose when pushed to the limits, and the rear wheels were a challenge to keep in line. However, for some people, these trade-offs are acceptable for a highway ride that won’t jolt them around.
We were not impressed with the brake performance. Their stopping distance of 128 feet from 62mph, while the longest in the group, was acceptable, but they suffered from severe brake fade, especially on the track, despite using a disc setup on all 4 wheels. However, while we felt a bit of instability in the rear under hard braking, all stops were straight. Like all the cars in our group, 4-wheel anti-lock brakes are standard.
Inside, the Courageux evokes a most serious and traditional attitude, with the only brightwork being the wood paneling on the center console, and excellent fit and finish. A driver’s airbag and seat-belt tensioners are standard. Functionality takes priority over design, with the large rocker switches for most controls easy to see and use, along with the radio. The rotary and slide controls for the climate control are simple to use, but their vertical orientation was somewhat unfamiliar. Gauges are large and well-marked, but we wish they included both an oil pressure gauge and a voltmeter. The heated front seats have very thick padding and are very comfortable, with excellent support and easy to use manual adjustments, including a telescopic pump for seat height and a rotary dial for the backrest. Combined with a tilting steering wheel, it wasn’t hard to find a good position. While cabin space is average, the trunk is the largest here, at 24.2 cubic feet.
6 Likes
TMCC11 Part 4
'88 Sports Sedans Comparo
Hinode Tempest GT
The first Japanese entry we will review is the Hinode Tempest GT. Its thoroughly modern design is very handsome, but quite derivative. The GT trim shows it’s nicely subdued aggression with revised bumpers, grill, front lip, and rear lip wing.
Power comes from the smallest engine in our group, a silky smooth 2.0L turbocharged inline 6, with dual overhead cams and 24 valves. It produces 216 horsepower.
At just over 2500 pounds, the Tempest GT is the lightest car here, and it shows by matching the Courageux on the drag strip, with a 0-62 time of 5.8 seconds and a quarter mile time of 14.1 seconds. It’s launches and pulls strongly, even if the turbocharger needs 3300 RPM to start delivering its maximum power. While the gearing was a bit long for our tastes, the transmission was enjoyable to use.
It’s low weight also endow it with a good balance of sport and comfort. It is taut and compliant at low speeds, and along with the performance tires and aero kit provided impressive grip at high speeds. However, it’s composure is greatly reduced when pushed to its limits, especially for the rear axle.
As expected, 4-wheel discs with ABS are standard. Stops from 62-0 mph took 114 feet with no drama, and we only sensed a slight hint of fade after repeated abuse on the track.
Despite the lack of wood trim, the Tempest GT’s well built interior gives off a modern, luxurious, and classy feel. However, while seat-belt tensioners are standard, no airbag is available. The digital dash is sharp and relatively easy to read, but it lacks oil pressure and voltmeter readouts. We prefer a complete set of analog gauges, which would be more user friendly. Its sweeping dash looks like it was lifted straight from a sports car, with most controls and gauges angled towards the driver. Most of the the controls, including ones for the climate control and radio, are large, well marked, and easy to use. One interesting feature was the high-mounted control panel that houses the most commonly used radio control, it helps keep the driver’s eyes on the road, but some of us saw it as redundant. We did not like the slideout panel for that houses the switches for fan speed and vent settings, but appreciated the cupholders that could stow away in the below the radio. The seats are well padded and supportive, and with the 7-way power adjustments and tilt and telescoping steering wheel, can accommodate almost anybody. Both cabin space and the 16.3 cubic feet of trunk space are typical for its class.
8 Likes
These first three reviews for the finalists are not only honest, but also highly informative - and I expect these to be true for the other four. Speaking of which, now that you have completed hosting duties for CSR 138, when will the remaining reviews and final results be released? After all, it’s been more than two months since you have confirmed the lineup of finalists for TMCC 11.
TMCC11 Part 4
'88 Sports Sedans Comparo
MAHG Upsilon 25 Turbo 88
From its chiseled front end and aggressive front spoiler to its rounded-off liftback shape, the MAHG Upsilon 25 Turbo 88 is a powerful show of French flair, even if it’s a bit dated.
Under the hood is a new turbocharged 2.5L single-overhead cam 16-valve inline 4, sending 254 raucous horsepower to the front wheels.
With a limited-slip differential, the MAHG scrabbled to 62 mph in 5.6 seconds and blasted through the quarter-mile in 13.86 seconds, the group’s fastest. As expected, there was from front-drive torque steer. The engine comes to life early in its rev range, maintaining consistent power to the redline. A notchy short-ratio 5-speed manual transmission and its progressive clutch allowed us to take repeated advantage of its overwhelming mid-range punch. Top speed is an eye-watering 173 mph, far surpassing its competition.
With the standard Y-rated Michelin TRX tires, aero refinements, and a sports-tuned variant of MAHG’s iconic hydropneumatic suspension, the Upsilon 25 Turbo 88 delivers an otherworldly combination of handling and comfort at all speeds. Behavior is highly predictable, with mild plow, good agility, and a high level of cornering grip, but it felt somewhat sluggish and nose-heavy. At high speeds, it was easy to correct any errors due to the responsive steering, ensuring driver confidence. However, the highway ride was compliant and smooth, absorbing rough surfaces with ease.
The 4 wheel antilock rakes did their job well, and stops from 62 mph took 114 feet with only some slight locking from the rear. Minimal fade was observed.
Befitting of a premium French car, the interior offers artistic, enigmatic, and world-class luxury with excellent build quality, featuring nearly every modern power and stereo option. A driver’s airbag and seat belt tensioners are standard. The conventional dials were easy to read thanks to the one spoke steering wheel. However, the interior is an ergonomic nightmare, and is a true example of form over function, with controls seemingly scattered everywhere and a layout that is not to everyone’s taste. For example, the radio was located where the armrests would be, making it very distracting to use. Despite the multitude of buttons, it would have been reasonably easy to use had it been in a more convenient position. Climate controls were tiny and hard to access, there were no stalks (pods mounted to the side of the steering wheels took their place), the turn signals did not self-cancel, and there were storage compartments high up in the dash. We found the seats to be comfortable but wished for more side support. The 21.4 of cargo space is generous.
5 Likes
TMCC11 Part 4
'88 Sports Sedans Comparo
Seikatsu Prince 3.0GT Turbo-F
Newly introduced this year, the Seikatsu Prince 3.0GT Turbo-F seeks to bolster the Japanese manufacturer’s high-performance credentials, with a contemporary, sleek package that sits low to the ground.
Featuring a turbocharged 24 valve dual-overhead cam 3.0L inline 6 that is shared with the larger Regalia luxury sedan and GR sports coupe, all 310 horsepower are delivered in a seamless manner through a 5-speed manual and all-wheel drive.
The well-matched short-ratio gearbox allows the 3523 pound heavyweight to rocket from 0-62 mph in 5.6 seconds, matching the MAHG’s acceleration. The quarter mile took 14.1 seconds. Power is strong from launch to redline, with minimal lag. However, the transmission’s stiff action and heavy clutch, expected for a car of this power, hampered its performance.
Handling is impressive considering its luxury-car philosophy and highest weight in the group, but still falls far short of its more sporting competitors. The rear-bias of the all-wheel drive system helps push the car through tight corners, helping to compensate for its low grip limits and loose handling given the lack of a rear sway bar and high body roll. At higher speeds, the car overly soft suspension proved to be universally disconcerting for all our drivers, and overall behavior could be described as bouncy. The lightly loaded rear end constantly threatened to kick out, but was quelled by the all-wheel drive and very communicative steering. As expected from a luxury car, highway ride comfort was excellent, with a high degree of compliancy.
Taking into account the standard road tires and comfort oriented suspension and brake pads, we couldn’t ask much more in braking performance. While there was some initial front brake lockup, stops were straight with a high level of consistency over several panic stops, with an average stopping distance of 123 feet from 62 mph.
While the interior may lack the panache of some competitors, its cohesive, modern design and excellent build quality are geared towards driver confidence, with a wide variety of power features and a reasonable amount of space. Seat belt tensioners with motorized front belts are standard, but no airbag is available. The wide dash features several vents, with large and legible analog gauges, even if not all the critical information is provided. The well-marked climate controls are easy to read and use, but the buttons for the radio are both somewhat tiny and require a long reach from the driver’s seat. The voice-activated controls proved very finicky to use. With power seat adjustments and a tilt steering wheel, finding a good seating position is a snap, and one situated, we found the seats to be very comfortable, if a bit lacking for hard driving. The 15.3 cubic feet of trunk space is expected for its class.
5 Likes