The V8s from yesterday put into perspective
just how expensive the fuel system on my 303 actually was!
Also shown there are a '72 unleaded mandate 353, '75 catalytic mandated 353 and a '91 LT1 competitor.
Also shown there are a '72 unleaded mandate 353, '75 catalytic mandated 353 and a '91 LT1 competitor.
More original design V8s
First: We have the longer stroke, detuned for better economy version of the LT1 competitor from last time.
Second: The new, all alloy larger V8 to replace the pervious ones, that’s the Camaro spec LS1 competitor.
Third: Since the second engine fails to match the first on economy, this even larger version got made!
Fourth: Corvette spec LS1 competitor, sadly doesn’t match LT1 competitor’s efficiency despite Premium 95.
I’m probably gonna redo all of these soon as it seems perhaps I should have been using reverse flow mufflers all along while all custom designed engines and most recreations so far have been baffled.
Reverse-flow mufflers are generally worth the extra expense for most applications - they provide greater noise reduction and better airflow compared to baffled ones.
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A couple of Chevy 454 recreations
First is an early 90's version with EFI, torque 100 RPM too late, otherwise matches the little on Wikipedia. (Except for apparently real thing has 2.5 inch rather than 2 inch exhausts, but, didn't want to retune lol!) Second is trying the first version after the change to SAE Net, makes well below the 468 claimed torque...
I really should start doing some non-GM engines, huh, so I’ll probably try doing the Ford GT engine (2003) and try some Barra I6s as well as their V8s to see how they compare to today’s offerings, the LS1 and 7
They share the same +8 quality family, perhaps incorrectly given LS1 is meant to be Gen III and LS7 Gen IV, otherwise LS1 is +6 quality everything else and LS7 +8. LS1 has standard mid intake and cast mid headers, LS7 has performance high intake and tubular mid headers. Torque too early by 300 on LS1 and 500 on LS7.
Another thread from a couple of years ago shared several recreations of early Ford Windsor V8’s without mufflers to try simulating SAE Gross, it’s an interesting idea, though I’m unsure if I want to try it myself, however, there was one engine I was willing to try, a racing engine he claims was drowning in myths:
He mentioned the engine’s rumored to be capable of 8000+ RPM and given it’s super short (72.9mm) stroke, that’s very plausible, though he concluded, 6300 was probably the real thing’s power peak speed and managed 6500 as his power peak speed, however, the newer game version has absolutely nuked outputs and so I needed to go up to the rumored faster speeds, BTW I used cast bottom end parts, 13 tech pool is needed to unlock lightweight forged conrods in 1954 tech year (heavy duty forged was probably enough lol) and I found that using the 13 tech pool on cast gave better results, so I did that lol!
Cleveland 351 based on the source in this thread: 351 Cleveland 2-V recreation
He wanted a 2 barrel, but his source says 4 barrel and I needed +8 quality to deal with 8.9 compression (source claimed on another follow up page), at least while using 92 RON leaded. Rest of quality is 0.
Ford GT engine and the Mustang Cobra R engine it’s based off of:
Both have +3 quality everything. Cobra R cast mid headers and standard mid intake, GT has performance intake but I can't remember if it mid or high.
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So when I said I wanted to do Barra engines, I obviously mainly meant the turbos, but, it has proven hard as they keep wanting to make way too much torque for the power and I’m wondering if that’s perhaps because they have torque limiters which as far as I can tell, would go along way in explaining the flat torque peaks and the overboast feature. So instead, two N/A Barras, them being the '08 till end petrol and '11 till end LPG:
LPG has no quality anywhere, Petrol only +2 on pistons and fuel system, both have exact same intake, header and exhaust system settings, part of which being standard and cast mid respectively.
I wonder what the downside to LPG is in this game, for I was able to get away with like a third of the fuel map (low 70s verse high 20s I think) in the LPG engine and so higher compression would have been an option, LPG is usually way cheaper at the pumps around here IRL and the servicing costs in the game aren’t higher, just straight upgrade it seems lol!
Don’t see myself returning to the turbo versions for awhile, think I’ll start doing some European engines or maybe Japanese next and for awhile onwards to balance out the American ones so far.
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So I decided to try the M3 GTR’s engine as my first European recreation, in part inspired by that car I’ve seen made to look like a certain Mustang form a certain game
Wikipedia claimed a rather high 354 lb-ft of torque and so what's what I tried first, +10 quality everything later and still only 333 archived and the cam down to just 30, this was getting ridiculous... at least I thought so, therefore I decided to check the source they linked for the road car, suspecting perhaps the 354 figure is for the race version and sure enough, source gives very different 269 lb-ft and 500 RPM earlier than Wiki does. Started from scratch giving that a go, noticed how the torque curve held fairly strong after the 306 lb-ft peak and so checked how much torque was still being made at the 7K RPM power peak, it was still more than the source claimed 269 which if I'm not mistaken makes those specs mathematically impossible lol! So... yeah... guess I need to find better sources and come back to this one. BTW, not sure when I'll next be able to upload anything again, certainly can't tomorrow but should be back by the weekend.
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One of if not the very first(, certainly the earliest I’m aware of) fuel injected engines, the three litre six which powered the 300 SL into the record books!
Could’ve gotten away with super retarded timing, we’re talking 8, nearly all the way, though restoring it to normal seemed to boast the power in comparison to the torque just enough to archive decimal perfection.
+11 quality everything except fuel system which needed 15 tech pool to unlock this early, would have made it in an even earlier tech year if not for this last fact.
I wanted to make a three cylinder, so what better than the homologated road version of the one currently dominating the WRC? Bit of a funny story with this one, given how I’ve heard the claim Toyota kept trying to the the FIA to nerf the 2nd gen body EVOs since a certain Finn kept winning the drivers championship in the late 90’s, yet they teamed up with said Finn to develop the race counterpart to this!
Made two versions, first with standard intake and second with performance intake, performance was able to get away with one less click of boast and normal ignition timing, though both use super unleaded (which I'd like to think isn't true of the real thing) and that's despite both having 20% less compression than the real thing's 10.5:1 (8.4:1 as per the variant name, boast level also in the name) and running less boast than the "1.4-1.81 Bar" it's apparently meant to have according to the Wiki page, maybe the game's direct injection isn't direct enough, IDK. +5 quality everything.
automobile-catalog.com sadly didn’t have any specs for the M3 GTR, though I found another site claiming the same torque but only 350 hp: https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/magazine-article-pool/bmw-m3-gtr-strassenversion.html
Perhaps this means 350hp/269lb-ft is the brake figures and the more familiar 380 hp and therefore roughly 292 lb-ft (269x1.086) would be the net figures to aim for in game, those are at least mathematically possible, though the standard quality version was already using just 11:1 instead of apparent real 12:1 compression and so it seems somewhat unlikely it will want to make less than the 300ish lb-ft it’s already making, IDK.
I wanted to try the Carrera GT’s V10 as well and also found it made too much torque, that one I feel more confident would definitely be brake figures however given the Clarkson review back in the day, therefore, would it be best to assume 1.086 times quote ratings and so 655hp and 472lb-ft as the target numbers?
What if I used a straight six instead of a V8 and DOHC 4V? Perhaps something like this would be the result
Compared to Corvette's '95 lineup, we have 1: LT1 level long stroke with cast internal and standard intake.
2: LT4 level short stroke with cast internals and standard intake.
3: LT5 level long stroke with forged internals and performance intake, available by '91 for '92 model year.
Pretty much the only real N/A 6 I know of which is comparable to mine in output is the TVR Speed Six.
I made the original '99 version since that’s the most relevant in terms of era, although I seem to remember Gran Turismo 4 having a '96 or '97 Speed 6 Cerbera, so I was kinda shocked Wiki said started in '99.
I made the last engine a straight six fearing a V wouldn’t be smooth enough at such a large size, however, decided to test last night anyway, I was more or less proven right, but, not to the extent I expected.
Similar story with other versions, seems to suggest perhaps it could be doable with decent quality boast, though at same time a quality boast to the I6 by extension would allow longer strokes and more efficiency.
Worst idea I’ve had yet? Thought I’d try a small, high revving V8 to compare to my turbo version of a 3.6L “existing” pushrod V6 shown elsewhere in these forums, it certainly didn’t turn out all that great at least.
All: Tubular mid headers, 2 way cat, no damper (with flat plane crank on V8s) and same cam setting.
1st: Standard intake DOHC V8.
2nd: Standard intake DOHC V6, turned out better in pretty much every way but efficiency due to stiffer valves.
3rd: Standard intake SOHC V8, to believe I wanted 2.0L SOHC originally…
4th: Performance intake DOHC V8, still less hp than turbo V6 with now less efficiency.
In part for comparison purposes to these, I next intend to try the Ferrari 208 and 308 engines.
BMW M31, the engine from a car I’ve found very fun to drive in racing games over the years:
Required no extra quality surprisingly, although does have 6 tech pool for early turbo unlock plus Wikipedia suggested it should be using only 7 psi (0.5 Bar) of boast while this recreation uses 10 psi (0.7 Bar) of boast, so, perhaps it should be redone with high quality to make power and torque that way instead of with boast, perhaps would have cured the bad efficiency also. Given I was able to get it running on unleaded, I did so, though probably ran on leaded given the times.
U.S. 308 engine, has catalytic converter (though real might not have based on automobile-catalog.com):
Was having trouble getting power to come late enough with Euro version, especially when also trying to get correct torque numbers, so settled for the U.S. version instead lol! Makes it more comparable anyway to the small V8s I shared before, especially when including the maybe unnecessary catalytic converters.
Wont be able to upload tomorrow, may not be back until Monday.
Maximum drifto?
+2 quality on most things, though internals needed +8 as well as lots of tech pool to unlock fuel system.
I personally kinda like to think this powers the Japanese version of the 2K2T from a couple of posts back.
The King of Africa has demanded a couple of his hearts be shared in my thread, how could I refuse?
After all, an Orangutan confirmed his royalty, so, I know I'm not being fooled, the time for that has passed.
Hey… Charger!
Wikipedia claims this to be the highest output six until the OG 911 Turbo, therefore surely remaining the highest output naturally aspirated six for a fair bit beyond that, though Wikipedia doesn’t elaborate on that.
Had I not aimed for the almost certainly gross factory ratings and used a more realistic compression ratio, a.k.a. did things more like the L78 recreation, I wouldn’t have needed max quality! Probably should have stopped quality wise once it was making peak power at the correct 5,600 RPM or something like that.
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