I was thinking that tire width should be involved, so that smaller cars have smaller engines and tires, and larger cars have larger engines and tires, and you could probably add some sort of cost or point limit in addition, I don’t think that would be too complicated
I found an example of what it could look like
I think that is to much to balance and to much things to try for an easy league.
I think the usual rules with a minimum amount of weight and a maximum amount of power would be alot easier.
Like minimum 1000kg and max. 400hp for 17000 bucks max 245 Tires no Wings/Lips.
And this would make it easy to build a realtiv competitive car for everyone. And it would be easy to change the rules to make a hole new car field like
Season 1 400hp 1000kg 245 tires
Season 2 500hp 1400kg 265 tires
Season 3 500hp 1250kg 255 tires
so every season the whole competitors had to build a complete new car.
This way why would anybody want to go with smaller car? By limiting smallers car power in grip, you take away it’s advantage. With you proposal, 10/10 the biggest car would be the fastest.
Are you sure you want to limit all those things? If you limit them all than it’s only a suspension tune game.
Okay i see your point. But there a so many different body`s and you can use a FR FF RR or a MR Car and then you have to chosse the engine a Turbo? A big NA? There are so much configurations which can be used and i don’t think it’s just the suspension setup. Breakes/gearing/… And with this in mind i think there would be a close competioen, where we will se alot new/bigger bodys.
If you want to make this easier, there should be fewer choices to make
So, only FR, weight in a specific range for a season, one engine type/material/valve option, unlimited power, no turbos, limit quality points not cost, and maybe something else, but that’s just an idea
I disagree. A simple max power limit, tyre limit and minimum weight limit is fine add to that a minimum safety stat and a minimum fuel range ie 14L/100. Anything more than this limits creativity which is the main goal…not to win but to have fun building the car. Turbos are not a huge advantage if there is a max power limit.
add to that that there is no aero tuning allowed and the 10yrs body rule should keep everyone evenish. There will always be min maxers but this is meant for newcomers andthose of us that dont take everything do seriously. If ya want a serious challenge enter a squidhead comp. I always thought that this challenge would be a way to improve the guys and gals coming over from steam and introduce and tutor them to suspension tuning
honestly i would like these challenges to be on a spec frame and body that all competitors use to keep tge playing field even
Ermm…it sounds like you didn’t make the chart, but…those are wheel diameters…not widths. 20" width isn’t even possible in Automation. WIdth suggestions from @Newtonmeter seem quite fine to me, but wings and lips should be allowed. Or maybe a wing OR lips but not both or one of each? Wings weren’t common in the 70s yet, but aero lips were (for racing). We don’t really have many good looking options for rear spoilers in Automation…tons of wings though! 
Also, 4L NA is really small, so I hope the actual chart will go a bit larger. My round 3 car was a 4.9L V8 and that’s pretty tiny for me. Of course, the car was all steel and weighed in at around 3,000 pounds (1300kg). The original engine for the car (I had to resubmit) was 6.3L but it was over on HP (overlooked that rule looking in multiple posts for all the rules). I’m usually in the 6-7L range for NA V8s.
The turbos will have to be scaled back to keep NA competitive, but I think that’s already a given from the discussions I have seen. Personally, I would prefer a boost pressure limit. Power/Weight ratios can get complicated for some people so it’s better to give a chart to keep it well defined. Just my two cents…
can’t wait for superchargers!
Totally agree on displacement. I generally use a minimum of 5l v8 but around 481ci is my normal v8
I think the displacement should be free when the horse power is limited. So you can build a lighter engine with a smal Torque-band or a heavy big block with a wide power band. Even Turbo`s will not be overpowerd with the hp limit. It is more expensive and weights alot. Also if you use the 76 Turbos with alot pressure you will have a about the half rpm-band with no power. And that can make alot trouble when it comes to the 0-100time. Or you have to use a high spacing value.
So i really think i will go with a Turbo if the rules will allow it but i think with this shitty journal bearing turbos a big long-stroke Na engine can perform better at this years.
The point I’m trying to make is that a beginner’s league should be easy to tune for, and the more things you have to make decisions for, the hard it’s going to be.
Also, I think tuning an engine for a max power output is harder than tuning for a max displacement.
One, you just have to keep it under a max displacement, and that’s simple.
The other, you have to adjust for a lot of things to make an engine to keep it under a certain power limit, and what the best way to do that isn’t obvious.
As for turbos, those are really complex, and probably shouldn’t be in a beginner’s league, and the same goes for aero parts.
As for what makes a simple rule, something that can be directly adjusted to keep it in limits, and a max power is not a simple way to do that. The hardest parts about rules is balancing them, not following them. So to me, it seems like you are going for easier rules to make over rules that are easier to tune for.
I think beginners have a better chance to build competitive a engine with a max power limit, as if we would say max 4.0L a good builder can make alot more a hp out of this engine than the beginner.
And Turbos can be used by skilled perons or from guy´s who want to learn how to use them. And all other could use a Na engine and have the same power output and a easyer to tune gear setup and don’t have a big disadvantage.
And some learning is good to be to perform on harder competitions
@ all
What would you think about an engine sharing?
Something like at the Formula 1 where the smaller teams can use the engine of an better team?
Somethhing like the first three of the last season had to build a engine which everyone can use based on their model for the next season.
I would allow some small differents in the tuning ,so the manufacturer still has a tiny advantage but the engine has to be close to the manufakturer engine.
Something like not less than 95% power and torque, peformance index as the manufakturer engine Not more than 105% of the weight.
So every competior can use the engine but is not allowed to change it.
I tried to show what i want to say.
This is the manufakturer engine
And this is something i can imagine for others to use
I will build a car and try how the times are compared to each other
Hm, I personally think sharing engines that are used in the current season (even if slightly detuned) is a bit much.
I would like to pick up another idea that was discussed when the ABL first started. How about if we publish the top 3 cars of each season here on the thread, once the season has finished?
This was found not so good because we thought the cars for each season would be very similar but that turned out to be not so much the case. So what do you all think about it?
I think it would make the field closer together than now. So the unskilled one can focus one the car setup and have a still usable engine.
One thing i thought about with this rule,
if one competitor want to use the engine, they had to say that before they get the Data of the engine, because if not it would easy for them to build the engine under their name and tune it.
So if you say you want to use the engine , you had to use it.
If you want to try if it fit you body you can get a mule (engine with complete useless tune but the same size)
So i fittet the engine’s in the dagger gt+ and run at the att
0.38s difference with the fitting gearing at the ATT but the manufakturer typ is 100 bucks more expensive, so i set the qualty at the gearbox by 2 at the free to use engine, if you can use a qualty slider more at the tyres it will be less
forgot to set the cooling lower
Everybody should build their own cars and engines in my opinion. I would not want to see a zip of my car in the top 3 post, but to maybe point out the pros (like what they did that give them the edge) of top 3 cars would be good.
Yes, we will not be having a car sharing part of the challenge as it’s difficult to learn when things are simply delivered on a silver platter. What matters in building a quick racecar is the choices you make to reach certain numbers and whether you can provide reasoning for the choices you make.
I’ve been playing around with turbos, and to me it seems that they are generally worse than NA engines for the same horsepower.
That might just be for me, but it seems like turbo engines might need a higher max hp to be competitive with NA engines at this point.
Yeah i am with you, i can build good cars with nice 0-100 and 80-120 times, but at the track they suck. THE AR Ratio is tricky i think. a smal turbine with a 1.4 AR gieves you an awesome dyna stat but is worse at track times.
Welcome back to the ABL, it’s time to move on to a whole, fascinating and fresh new round 4, it’s:
#1976/1977!
##Winners punishment
@airjordan, @koolkei and @Newtonmeter you have to make do with a maximum of 340hp/254kW 
##Don’t forget to read the OP for the constant rules!
(eg minimum cooling required, headlights+taillights+handles required, etc)
##Tracks
##Deadline
You have until the 24th of February at 23:59CET to enter your cars.
Send in your cars to @frankNStein. Please do give a warm welcome to our new racemaster, Nomade has “stepped down” to take on the duties of the writer.
As you already know, cars should be named like this:
Let’s hold one day to discuss and finalize the rule set, and scrutineering begins on the 25th.
If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask. As always, feedback on the ruleset, the presentation, the layout, anything is welcome.
Have fun, and wish you all the best of luck! 
Advanced safety? Jeeez it’s racing, calm down 
other than that it looks good, I think the penalty is nicely judged.
EDIT: are aero sliders allowed?
i have a car ready, but i’ve gone VERY french
