The ironic thing is that the notion of being “educated” is quite different from what it used to be. I say this because schools don’t necessarily educate a person, they may teach someone to be trainable. Information these days is literally right at our fingertips. An educated individual could be one spending lots of time doing research on google and watching videos on youtube.
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hmm in my opinion. i think the notion of education has not changed. but education itself is constantly changing, and thus, flexible. what was “right” from back then, might not be right now, and might change again in the future. sure educated people of the past are different from today’s standard of educated people. but that’s because you’re comparing the education standards and knowledge from 2 different era.
and as you say, google research could very well be a legit way to educate yourself, even if you say that ironically, but it was where i learned all about computer hardwares, about automotive stuff, basically a lot of the things i know today started from google. it’s not formal education, but you are educated nonetheless
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@KA24DE @doncornaldie @Sillyducky For your discussion on what does and doesn’t warrant tolerance, I would say that you meant that while arbitrary characteristics warrant tolerance, ones determined by choice (and religion is a choice) don’t. However, that doesn’t excuse violence in any case except retaliation, as even if a threat is imminent, the first person to get hit is usually able to garner some sort of martyr status (not to mention potential legal recourse).
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Indeed. I am someone who learned more on my own than in school. The difference though is that school is more or less a forced thing, while taking the time out to actually learn something on your own requires a desire to do so; which a lot of people lack. Even though information is fairly easily accessable, it doesn’t really help globally because the people that want to better themselves would works towards it anyway; while the people who need to be educated for the benefit of society don’t. In that regard I suppose school, by concept, is a good thing.
Well said @SkylineFTW97
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Hmmm. If you think education is the art of being schooled on how to perform a certain task, then you would be right. But why I have that point is because I think being educated is not about knowing how to do a certain job only, but to possess the ability to think critically and know different philosophies, even if not in their entirety.[quote=“SkylineFTW97, post:123, topic:18797”]
would say that you meant that while arbitrary characteristics warrant tolerance, ones determined by choice (and religion is a choice) don’t.
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That’s a damn good point.
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Definitely. In US public schools, they don’t teach us as much as they train us to do shit their way. And if you find it needlessly tedious like I did, they’ll make up all sorts of excuses to reprimand you.
I have a short story regarding this: When I was in 2nd grade, I was tested to have the reading comprehension of a 10th grader. And I was always browsing for books on engineering,science, history, etc… I was learning, and enjoying it. But my teachers objected to the fact that I prefer reading how things work than fiction. They always complained that I hated reading novels, and it took my mom essentially telling them to fuck off several times to stop them from pestering me about it.
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Exactly the point I’m making.[quote=“KA24DE, post:124, topic:18797”]
The difference though is that school is more or less a forced thing
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A forced thing that teaches you exactly what they want. To me that isn’t being educated. In my view to be educated is to be able to grasp different viewpoints, then formulating your own opinion.
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Normally I’d agree… but basic mathematics and how to properly use the country’s main language is kind of a necessity that needs to be taught without requiring different viewpoints. A good history lesson as well… but that’s where it gets murky.
Without that, we have the epidemic of “lemme axe yu a qushion”
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I’d love to see a list of countries in which their history curriculum wasn’t simply some overly selective propaganda machine. 
this includes the fairly inadequate Australian syllabus, in which the really important stuff is only glossed over after about four years, and the stuff that actually helps you make sense of today’s international conflicts is not taught at all.
Since everybody in a Western civilisation is uncomfortably confronted with the ramifications a of the Middle East in one a way or another, I’d say a requirement for joining today’s modern discourse would be a working knowledge of the history of the early Abrahamic faiths, the history of European colonialism in the Middle East, in particular, if you want to understand ISIL, the Sykes-Picot agreement. And that’s just the middle East, nevermind the 20th century history of North Korea, or China’s People’s Revolution. The number of people I know who have command of that knowledge would be… None (including myself, I lack an understanding of early Islam sociopolitical developments). Otherwise the temptation to say fuck it, let’s drop a nuke on the problem is really quite a big one. Except since nukes would mean M.A.D, maybe we’ll fire fifty little warheads.
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Oh yeah, I don’t remember being taught dick after the Roman Empire. They never go anywhere remotely modern day and relevant… at least they didn’t when I was in school.
If we’re talking about our history… I gave up on humanity after Reagan stuck his foot in the Soviet-Afghanistan war. I think that Russia was the middle-east’s (or at least Afghanistan’s) last hope of a decent society back then, and it all went to shit with Reagan’s support of an Islamic regime. I could be wrong though because there’s so much conflicting propaganda at the time… but from the photos I’ve seen… they started to look like decent people under Russia’s rule. They even had a library with women in it, and they were wearing european clothes!
Too much optimism though… it was probably just a photo shoot with Svetlana and Natasha. 
I dunno. On one hand, the nuke is awesome… but on the other, it is so boring. There’s not much actual war in nuclear warfare. Now good 'ol napalm and dumb-bombs… that’s a show. Tech gets moving. I love vehicles more than anything, and “traditional” war fuels the progress of that better than anything. I’d prefer that over nukes… but I still consider nukes a viable alternative to get it done quick. Mutually Assured Destruction won’t be an issue if we stop the bulllshit and come to terms with the leading world powers. If the US, Russia, China and all the major nuke owners know the plan, and co-ordinate… we don’t have to nail each other. We can just slag most of the rest of the world without any M.A.D. happening, and all will be well. Sure, we’ll have to drill for our own oil in the middle east, and in hazmat suits for the next month or so… but it’s a price to pay.
Now to figure out if I’m actually serious about the nuke bit. I actually might be… I’ll come back to this when it isn’t 3am and I haven’t been up the past 18 hours.
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Maybe you played too much Fallout a more accurate representation of any kind of nuclear outcome would be 50% of the world’s population dying instantly, 30% dying from the ensuing chaos, and the remaining 20% living through a century long Siberian level nuclear winter in the stone age since we lack the resources to maintain our current level of technology and have passed the critical point where the Earth’s resource pool will allow us to rebuild any of it 
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I definitely understand that it sounds petty but besides it being a whole cultural thing, some people are more willing to help strangers. I’m just very, very, VERY socially awkward. An introvert anywhere else is an extrovert here. What I tried implying is that most likely if it was a Finnish stranger asking me something I would’ve still probably walked away because of how I am as a person anyway and have a deathly fear of social situations where I’m not in control: for example when I was in school I would like to give presentations but if I had to make a phone call to let’s say the doctor I would be deathly afraid.
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Well I didn’t understand the extent of your social awkwardness, and maybe I still don’t in its entirety as it could be an anxiety issue or something else. But we all have our problems so I can understand.
Look at it this way, if I’m new to a country after I fled from my home over the fear of being gassed or have a bomb drop on my roof, spent months maybe years living in fear of imminent death, scavenging for food and medical supplies, seeing my fellow family members, friends, Childeren slaughtered on a daily basis; the last thing I want is more hostility, even in the slightest form.
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To play devil’s advocate here, I encounter plenty of counter-examples to that: some refugees are so indoctrinated in a world of violence and hostility that they are literally incapable of understanding anything else. These end up being the people who populate our emergency rooms at midnight all bloody and still spoiling for a fight after a substance-fuelled binge and a cracking good brawl at the local pool hall.
Or they inherit all the disaffection of our youth and go around robbing people, slashing them with a boxcutter, and ransacking Officeworks. Before then I would daresay they received rather little in the way of hostility, but after that they sure as hell brought the heat on everyone else.
Like I said, importation of liability. It’s useless to paint an entire group with a brush, but we can’t just sweep these things under the carpet. With regards to the latter examples, the Sudanese elders made an open call to work out the youth problems, and I hope that proves productive. As for the former, we just don’t have enough public interest or really knowledge about the true nature of post-traumatic syndromes to meaningfully help those refugees break their cycle yet, so a narrative born of frustration persists.
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That’s also true, but it brings me back to my point that hostility wouldn’t help the situation. It could actually be what would push someone over the edge.[quote=“strop, post:134, topic:18797”]
importation of liability. It’s useless to paint an entire group with a brush
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And isn’t this why they spend months under vetting?[quote=“KA24DE, post:128, topic:18797”]
A good history lesson as well…
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Wikipedia might have more facts than a high school history lesson. But I do agree that language and basic math is a necessity. Communication and commerce forms the backbone of every civilization.
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true. The only issue I wished to raise is that there are caveats to unconditional friendliness… but on the flip side if you’re in a position to supply it you should give it. This doesn’t have to apply to just refugees, by the way 
When it comes to Australia, who the fuck knows. They’re more likely kept offshore indefinitely in subhuman conditions to serve as a political deterrent. We have little faith in any ‘vetting’ part of the process. Maybe the US actually does have a more effective system.
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Well now I understand the point you made before as I have a better idea of the Australian immigration process. But that’s pretty much comparable to the vetting process we have here in Jamaica, which I have no Idea about. We don’t have an immigration problem (apart from a few Haitians that risk their lives on boats made of God knows what). But I’m assuming there’s a process as some of the Haitian refugees were returned and some were given places to stay (at least temporarily).
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH WE’RE HALFWAY THERE
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH LIVIN’ ON A PRAYER
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So fitting!
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TAKE MY HAAAANDS WE’LL MAKE IT I SWEEEEEaaaaar
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