I love to fool around with the engine designer. However, am I the only one who cannot reproduce any production engine with any accuracy? Torque values are always too low in the rev range, and HP is nearly impossible to duplicate without higher revving, or larger displacement, or ridiculous AF ratios.
In addition, since the update for turbos, everything seems broken. Engine parts fail like crazy at moderate RPMs even with quality at 10, (which isn’t always an option under scenarios.)
I understand that producing exact copies of real-world engines is not going to happen, but it’d be nice to be close. I think the old ED (before turbo update) was closer, and it was easier to use in that parts were more tolerant of speed and displacement.
I’ve taken a look at the two examples you’ve provided and can see what you mean, but don’t understand how you can consider this as “cannot reproduce any production engine with any accuracy”.
For the Corolla for instance, you peak torque earlier in the rev range, but that peak is so flat that it is basically the same value up to 4400 RPM. Also, you used forged internals, which was not necessary in this case: “cast, cast, hypercast” did the job with a quality setting of +6. It is possible to get the exact power@5600 and torque@Peak values, but indeed you need to put some fuel in. I don’t see how this is a problem though, why wouldn’t you put lots of fuel into the engine when running at full throttle at high RPM?
Recently I’ve worked out a possible additional effect/feature for the quality system which would affect the power curve via top end quality settings, basically determining the drop-off point - like when you get valve float. That is the only bugbear I still have with the engine designer - power curves not dropping steep enough when they drop. That should be fixed by that. For the rest of the NA stuff in the engine designer we are quite happy with its accuracy. Sure, there will probably be minor balance tweaks along the way, but it won’t get much better without an enormous amount of effort. Getting to 95% accuracy takes as much time as getting from 95% to 98% - i.e. sadly not feasible.
[quote=“Killrob”]I’ve taken a look at the two examples you’ve provided and can see what you mean, but don’t understand how you can consider this as “cannot reproduce any production engine with any accuracy”.
For the Corolla for instance, you peak torque earlier in the rev range, but that peak is so flat that it is basically the same value up to 4400 RPM. Also, you used forged internals, which was not necessary in this case: “cast, cast, hypercast” did the job with a quality setting of +6. It is possible to get the exact power@5600 and torque@Peak values, but indeed you need to put some fuel in. I don’t see how this is a problem though, why wouldn’t you put lots of fuel into the engine when running at full throttle at high RPM?
Recently I’ve worked out a possible additional effect/feature for the quality system which would affect the power curve via top end quality settings, basically determining the drop-off point - like when you get valve float. That is the only bugbear I still have with the engine designer - power curves not dropping steep enough when they drop. That should be fixed by that. For the rest of the NA stuff in the engine designer we are quite happy with its accuracy. Sure, there will probably be minor balance tweaks along the way, but it won’t get much better without an enormous amount of effort. Getting to 95% accuracy takes as much time as getting from 95% to 98% - i.e. sadly not feasible.[/quote]
I understand. It wouldn’t bother me if I wasn’t reproducing real engines, which I normally don’t anyway. The sim makes engines better than reality in some cases. My basic concerns are:
Torque peaks too low* for some engines. RPM
HP peaks too high in some engines, and difficult to change peak to lower RPM via ignition timing. *RPM
Long stroke x small bore should be more torquey vs. large bore x small stroke or “square” engine (of same capacity.) - changing these values within the same capacity does little to the hp vs. torque output.
Building engines in earlier years (40s-60s) is far more difficult now, because parts do not last even with quality 15.
Despite this, I love the concept and fooling around with the engine builder can be fun.
HP peaks too high* in some engines, and difficult to change peak to lower RPM via ignition timing. *RPM
Long stroke x small bore should be more torquey vs. large bore x small stroke or “square” engine (of same capacity.) - changing these values within the same capacity does little to the hp vs. torque output.
Building engines in earlier years (40s-60s) is far more difficult now, because parts do not last even with quality 15.
Despite this, I love the concept and fooling around with the engine builder can be fun.[/quote]
Yes, this will be addressed to some extent with the top-end quality system.
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This is a myth as far as I can tell, so I think you’re wrong there. It should be the other way around: capacity is directly proportional to maximum torque in first approximation. To second order approximation, you get more torque from over-square engines taking valve area into account.
Yes, this might still need some minor tweaking, but it needs to be difficult to build high-revving engines in that time period!
The myth of undersquare engine -> more torque stems from the fact that many engines that need to be torquey do also need to be compact and cheap, and that’s what the undersquare engines are good at.
It’s possibly also that an engine can have larger capacity in a smaller block from increasing stroke. Either way, this is what engine manufacturers claim, and the 1zz-fe is an example. It has a ‘cousin’ which is nearly square and has different output.
Btw: would be nice to have a feature to delete multiple engines from the engine builder rather than one-by-one.
Exactly, that’s why increasing stroke doesn’t increase engine size in Automation (that is until you need to increase the bore/block size to get more stroke)
Agreed on the engine manager list, it needs a few things done to it still, like sorting, better deleting etc.
