JOC4C - I don´t want it, but I need it [DONE]

Step 1: The BINS

Actually, there is a reason why I come up with only few rules and those are even quite lenient. I hate binning other people´s cars. Really. Unless it´s a CSR I am hosting. JOC should have a good balance between easy entry and some kind of challenging task. And the latter was designing a totally boring MPV that looks so good you want it without even having kids.

To get back to topic. Since the rules were not that hard, it is not surprising that violations weren´t found… except for one.

@Maverick74 sent me a 1993 model, although the model year should be 1995+.

So I asked myself what to do. Since this rule violation does NOT give any kind of obvious advantage (like exceeding the budget or using better fuel or failing to meet emission standards) I decided to let it slide if it will still pass the rules with a 1995 model year. That switch was giving the car slightly better stats, but SADLY this altered the price to $ 20.100 - just 100 too much. Which means, I have no other choice but to bin it.

Since I liked the car, I will review it anyway a bit. The Torshalla had a quite good drivability considering how simple the suspension is, but the AHS steel chassis with partially alu panels seem a bit too advanced for what it is. Medium compound tires also smell cheesy, but they were not forbidden. Nevertheless, light weight is definitely helping its stats which were overall good. The engine suffered from piston stress, but the overall reliability of 76,6 points was fairly ok despite that obvious goof.
The design is very, very 90s, so a bit dusted considering Bruno prefers sharp looking cars, BUT: The execution of that 90s look was clean, well proportioned and very realistic, it would have scored most likely 7 out of 10, with the excellent realism making up the outdated feel of it.

The car would definitely have advanced to the second round.


Step 2: The first round

I won´t help anyone improving if I just focus on the nice things, so I apologize for being harsh aka telling you what´s bad about the one or other car, but it is just meant as a hint to make better vehicles.

Roamer Squeaze by @Mausil

The passengers are all, well “squeazed” into this very small car - nevertheless the practicality is good, but the utility awful - since the additional seats consume all trunk space. The comfort is medium range, it shines when it comes to fuel consumption - obviously helped by the fact it´s small. Installing a CVT was a keen move, resulting in few friction losses. An 1766ccm ALSI DOHC V6 with 94 horsepower smells heavy like cheese, but the engine was just as balanced to not break the gearbox with too much power. The stats are actually way too good for how unrealistic the engineering is. The redline is just 100 rpm above peak power which is … not a good choice, to say the least, but I guess having a CVT prevents totally miserable rpm drops so that goof wasn´t as bad as it could have been. Using a single point injection in 2001 is however unrealistic as well, since that was out of fashion already in the mid-90s and only seen on very cheap cars (2001 automation equivalent might be cars below a price of 10k). Suspension and brakes need more fine tuning, and the reduced engine cooling does not seem clever as reliability is a top priority, although the stat wasn´t harmed as I thought it would be.
Overall, an interessing concept with not too bad results, some more experience and it would have been surprisingly competetive.

The styling is better than earlier cars from the entrant, but it is still below average. The rear is uninspired, the tiny door handles and the old-fashioned mirrors are weird (although the integration of side indicators is interessing) and the fuel cap is really where I just ask myself “why?”. Some details on the other hand are quite nice, so hit and miss are very closely together here. The simple interior provided is well fit. What really killed this car in the end was the by far lowest safety.

to the entrant: I see a learning curve. I see some effort in it. Proceed like this, you seem to be on a good way.

Kiyume Heron by @machalel

Bwoah, where to start… propably with the elephant in the room. I consider it as a meme car, and as such, the design isn´t even too bad. We don´t need to discuss that Bruno would never buy a car looking like this, I guess, but: The fixtures are correctly sized and well-aligned. Detail level is medium, but as I said, its all working together when considering this as a meme entry.
The engineering continues the meme by providing me an aluminium semi spaceframe (WHAT?) with GFK panels (ARGH!). The engine redline is a bit too far up (5000 vs peak power at 4200), and the engine itself is aiming for torque with long stroke. having addeded a turbocharger, it brings solid 282 nm on the crankshaft. It could have been more reliable if the exhaust hadn´t been so ridiculously small. Even when increased to proper size, the compression or boost should be a bit lowered, stopping the engine to retard ignition timing.

Reducing the boost might have been the solution, since the gearbox is literally blown apart, causing terrible reliability. Maybe this car was built before the latest patch introducing too low torque limits for the gearboxes. Both @abg7 and @Ludvig already discussed that with me in another thread and this car is another proof they are right about it.

So, other than having a weird styling, unfitting chassis and bad reliability, it´s comfort is also low. In short: Bruno walks away from this without hesitation.

to the entrant: This was surely a meme so I think the goofs were intentional. I guess the update made it all worse without you noticing it.

CYD Celesta Exacto by @quiz

“WES 9 Compliant” says the side lettering, great, one thing less to check for rule compliance… Jokes aside, this lettering feels like being one third of all fixtures used. SADLY. It´s so bland that it´s already out before looking at the engineering - which I will do anyway.

The most obvious goof is 8 percent crankshaft stress, that could have been solved by simply using low friction cast pistons instead of “regular” cast pistons. Stress would have been reduced to 3 percent and the car would still have been below the budget. Maybe you didn´t have an understanding of the parts and what they change, but in that case I suggest you to play a little around and check what happens, then you might get an understanding. 5000 redline with 4800 peak power revolutions is odd. Good rust-protection which was no judging criteria, sadly. The whole engineering isn´t causing game warnings but just doesn´t follow a clear concept. Medium tires, but no vented discs? Hardly makes sense. Fancy direct injection and six-speed automatic, but neither progressive springs nor gas dampers, but a solid rear axle with leaf springs? Thats absolute nonsense.

to the entrant: You simply need more practice and some knowledge about real car engineering. If you are rather young and don´t have technical background and no experience with driving cars at all, that´s hard for newbies. Take your time, have a learning curve, and you will see how the verdicts will improve by a 100 percent.

That is it for today. Again, I did not mean to insult you. I just felt like I needed to point out clearly what´s the issues here.


That might explain why all of my challenge entries after the Ellisbury update are all naturally aspirated - but even without forced induction, it is possible to reduce gearbox reliability unnecessarily by making the ratios (especially first) too short.

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True, but that´s solvable as you said by not using absurdly short first gears. Against the turbo breaking the gearbox, only two painful ways work:

  1. Doing gearbox quality spam - that kicks you out of any challenge with the purchase price rising to absurd amounts

  2. Reducing boost significantly - this causes the turbo not using his potential despite altering the service cost a lot - which makes it hardly competetive compared to NA cars.


thank you for your advices, have fun with the rest, good luck everyone else. I had fun :slightly_smiling_face:

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Ah you are completely right about the gearbox reliability with latest patch - I didn’t notice it with the latest update :frowning:

As for the ‘memeness’ no I didn’t intend to be a meme car, but I but rather to try and channel the weirdness that crept into some Japanese brands in the 90’s, but ramped up a bit (for those that thought the Nissan Cube a bit too bland) . I admit the wheel spats were probably a bit too much maybe :stuck_out_tongue:
But yeah, the panels were a mistake.


It’s a good thing I hosted the previous round of this JOC before the release of the latest open beta update - otherwise, any turbocharged entries would have been docked points for gearbox unreliability. As things currently stand, however, if I were to host any challenge right now, I would either have to explicitly require every entrant to use a normally aspirated engine, or warn them that excessive boost and torque density would reduce gearbox reliability unfairly, limiting the turbos’ potential.

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If you set the first gear maximum speed to 50km/h it seems to get rid of a lot of the reliability penalty

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I’ve tried that for most of my builds, and it worked a treat - although it doesn’t solve the problem of low torque limits that impose a reliability penalty on all turbocharged engines.

Step 3: Bruno goes for testdrives

Now we are finally looking at the cars that Bruno would consider. His wife is a bit angry at him for using public transport with the kids, so his Primus keys have been taken by her and he needs to ride the train. Thank god we are still in 2001, when the German Train wasn´t a disaster as it is today. But: He wants his car back and needs to get the second one!
Not far away from his workplace is the Ozoku dealer. Not an impressive design, but not bad either. It is a bit smaller than others, practicality is a bit lower than desired. On the other hand, the Oshidori is reliable - as most Japanese vehicles. In the tradition of Japanese vehicles for the German market, the comfort extras are mostly included in the base price. Semi-active sway bars? Unexpected fancy stuff in this car. The handling was alright, the 3 liter V6 with AWD drivetrain was more than adequate for this vehicle, but the test drive revealed a thirst beyond all expectations.
All in all, this is the typical family car: Not impresses in any way, but also did not reveal any major fault. But Bruno decides to look for a car that might stand out a bit.

To the entrant: Solid car, the design might be a bit generic and has medium detail level, but what´s there is cleanly done and well-fit. Most engineering makes perfect sense, although semi-active sway bars while having an all-iron engine and plain steel panels without rust protection (not judged) is a bit of an awkward move in terms of realism. Nevertheless: It´s a car where I say “well done!”

Directly next to the Ozoku dealership was the Durendal one, and there was definitely a car that does stand out visually, but propably not in a way it pleased Bruno. But: A wild sport panel van with premium family interior? That´s tempting to check. The Durendal is reported to be absolutely immune to rust and even more reliable than the Ozoku, pleasing Bruno. The thirst is even worse, but, considering the aerodynamics of such a box, that is less of a surprise than the Ozoku needing just a liter less despite the massive size difference. The FWD chassis is well-tuned, giving it a better handling than expected, since the power of the massive B6 engine made Bruno doubt the simple suspension could handle it, but it can!
In the end, Bruno was pleasantly surprised, but thought about preferring something better looking.

RANK 8: Durendal B30-A by @GassTiresandOil
to the entrant: The engineering is excellent. Two things killed this car. The first is a low practicality and I don´t know why, since WHAT ON EARTH WOULD BE MORE PRACTICAL THAN A MINIBUS??? But I have to stick to the numbers the game provides me. The fixture placement is well done and even detail work is there like the taillights including the tailgate seam, as seen in the pictures. But it´s just horribly bland despite all the visible effort, in fact, it´s very hard to make a van like this look fancy. It is a shame and I am a bit sorry for you that your body choice lowered the score in two ways - a low practicality I don´t know where it is from and the design that fails to keep up with the top-choices here that just look better while being at least equal on paper. So: Nice try with an unique concept that actually impressed me that it worked as good as it did.

The next dealer on the list was IP. Their Turnpike Star is another older model… oh, it was introduced in 97, but looks a bit older, at least from the front. Yes, the front is a bit weird, the rest is totally fine. As usual for an IP, the reliability is fairly ok, although not the best from all competitors, the same is valid for the comfort. The six-cylinder needs a bit less than expected, moving the large and practical minivan with sufficient effort, but the old-fashioned four-speed automatic is a bit of a drawback in this price range. The solid rear axle hampers the ride comfort, but this car can bear heavy loads, so with all rear seats removed, hauling stuff would be no problem at all. But what is a problem is the handling. Although not that bad in cornering, it feels nervous and needs more attention from the driver. Maneuvering in tight spaces, long highway trips, driving in the snow in alpine holidays… that´s where his wife wouldnt really like it. Not that the handling is bad, it´s just that most other competitors are better. The rear drum brakes do not feel adequate for such a large and powerful vehicle, too, and started to fade in the spirited test drive. Again - nowhere near to an annoying amout, but others can do better.

Rank 7: IP Turnpike Star 3500 GLX by @Knugcab
To the entrant: A typical huge rice bowl where overbuilt hightech does meet some cheap stuff, it is not unrealistic at all. In no area the car could shine, it is mostly perfectly in the middle but the drivability disappoints. Good realism, visible effort in the car was made, but it`s no contender for the victory.

The next day, Bruno took the Merit to work, his kids were suddenly sick and therefore not at school and kindergarten. Now he was able to drive freely through the rather far-out industrial areas of Frankfurt. Here was the Aitlan dealer. “Another boring huge rice bowl” thought Bruno, but even if the styling wasn´t exciting, it was well-executed. Not offensive, nowhere ugly. just clean and unobtrusive. Despite being smaller and as practical as the IP, it was very economical, service cost was also a bit less. But the car also revealed serious drawbacks. The reliability was reported to be low, and the gearing was awkward. The four-speed automatic had a very long gearing, so the focus on economy seems really the main goal here. The rear drums have less fade than in the IP, but could use less force, the rear becomes a bit unstable in emergency stops.

Rank 6: Aitlan ACT-1 by @Hilbert

To the entrant: Many things done right, if fuel economy was a higher priority, it could have ranked higher, but the low reliability ruins it all. The design scored higher than it should for being so … well,… unobtrusive, but it was propably the most real-life looking car here and that had to be honoured, finally putting it in front of the IP, but only by a very small margin

Bruno headed towards the LVC dealer. Here he reserved a dark red LV680 - a car reported to have already won a magazine test. Reliability records are also positive. Ernst, the salesman, showed Bruno all the standard features. “ESC, six airbags…”
“SIX?”, asked a surprised Bruno. Ernst laughed. “Yes, our car is the safest in its class and price range. But please don´t see this as invitation to drive reckless on the test drive, you`re not Frank Batimus, eh?”

Indeed: The car´s handling allowed to drive above the speed limit, it was good. Very good, thanks to rear multi-link suspension and careful fine-tuning. Even with a rather sparse interior, the ride comfort was good. A more premium trim would propably be the holy grail of family haulers. It needed some fuel, yes, but the bigger financial issue was the service cost. Not astronomically, but it´s more than average. By looking at the car in the sunset, Bruno feels nothing. The car isn´t ugly. But it is soulless. Bruno sold a damn Zephorus, he wants to feel some connection for the car. With the LVC, he doesn´t.

Rank 5: LVC LV680 by @abg7
to the entrant: This car could have won. It is a solid allrounder, highly drivable, enough comfort, by far the safest which was top-priority. Another top priority was the design. And while I can´t say its ugly or has misplaced and unfitting item, it is one of the most soulless cars I ever reviewed. And with that said by the designer of f…cking PRIMUS (!), you know it´s serious. I have seen many other cars from you that were not really fancy or exciting but had at least some personality, like your 90s supercar, a Ventnor, or the Starecrow. I know its extra hard on MPVs, but I think a longer time in the oven in terms of design creativity could have brought it at least on rank 2.

In this Area were still the Dealers of Arlington and Mara. By coincidence, both offer exactly the same concept of vehicle: A large wagon with third row seats in the trunk. Bruno is very sceptical about this concept, but as these two seats would be rarely needed and if, at least not for his own kids, he was determined to get both the Mara and Arlington for a test drive.

The Kavaler looks a bit outdated, but its a 1995 model and one of the older on the market. In addition, a Mara was never meant to be fashionable. For DM 18.800, the Mara offers a complete comfort interior. The UKE-7 even adds variable steering, medium compound tires and rear disc brakes and a great Boom&Olaffson CD stereo system. Model age was visible when looking at the gearbox, being only a four-speed, and the sparse airbag count, having only two of them.
But the Mara shines again when looking at the numbers. The Mara is cheap to service and very reliable, just as expected from the brand.

The Arlington not only looks sportier - it is! For DM 19.600 it even provides a huge V6 - and the suspension is firm and allows for good cornering considering how large the car is. When checking out the rear and trunk seats, Bruno noticed a hint more passenger space than in the Mara. Four airbags were standard in every Arlington, and the built quality equals the mara, both wagons are absolutely reliable models. So, it´s the Arlington then? Bruno still doubts. The Arlington also has a fancy CD system from Major Electric, but the rest of the interior comfort does not impress him. It´s not premium but standard, with many hard plastics, no leather, no heated seats, although the design of the interior is nice. An Arlington with a better trim level, that would be great, but also too expensive.

Rank 4: Mara Kavaler 2.3 UKE-7 by @AndiD
to the entrant: It´s not more exciting than the LVC getting a slap for its un-creativeness, but somehow you manage to use ancient and overly simple design as your brand legacy and it really works out. The car is consistent in every detail, so the visual score is a lot better than the LVC. I can´t really grab it, but your car has a bit “soul”.

Rank 3: Arlington Antares Estate by @Texaslav
to the entrant: Also hardly an innovative design, but it goes well with what this should be, with effort in detailing. Not as much soul as the Mara, but still consistent in itself, so ranking slightly above the Kavaler in terms of design. The car excells at sportiness and is clearly the drivers choice of the bunch, so your advert did NOT lie at all. The biggest issue was the comfort of a wooden stool, despite premium CD radio, which is a weird choice together with a standard interior. The LVC almost had double the comfort with all-standard interior (24 to 40). All in all, the bronze medal is deserved, not to forget the effort in the interior which looks great, but the second place was too far away to have any advantage of the interior, and it would have beaten the Mara anyway.


In other words, maybe trying to squeeze in an automatic was the move after all. It’s a bit of a shame, but I understand. Thanks for the bronze, and may the best remaining contestant win!


You might have noticed that only rank 1 and 2 are not revealed, but three advertized cars are still not reviewed.

I did not get a file for the Wells. I double checked my PMs, it´s really not there. Some hosts point such things out at the last call, and maybe I should have done so. Nevertheless, you can still send me the file and I will review it a bit out of the official ranking, if you wish. So @DuceTheTruth100 , feel free to send it to me and I will somehow include it into the story when I reveal the winner tomorrow.

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Yeah, I knew I was taking a risk with the minibus body. It just speaks to me for some reason lol. Reminds me of a Hot Wheels.

@Happyhungryhippo hey thats nice of you to do that, I really do appreciate it. You not getting a file from me was entirely my fault for a couple of reasons…1, for some reason I could only fit 4 seats total in the vehicle, I dont know if thats a morph issue or what, so I was worried about being binned…but the main reason was because we went out of town last minute. Halfway to the destination while looking out the window at the rocks in the mountains, JOC4C popped in my head and I realized that I hadnt sent in my entry!!! SMH.

Thanks once again.


Brunos Kids are fit once again, and so he still uses public transport again. With a short interruption, he used PT for three weeks now - but thankfully his colleague Richard offered a ride home in his Wells.

“A very interessing design, quite dynamic for a van”, said Bruno, but Richard replied “This is why it has only four seats. I think you can get it with five as well, but its mostly about the load space, its good for my mountain bike.”
“And very comfortable as well”. “And thirsty”, complained Richard, heading towards the ANAL gas station.

Car used: Wells Land Runner by @DuceTheTruth100 : The design concept is great with the sculptured rear fenders and clever use of body molding but the detail work lacks care. It is as if you had a great idea but just didn´t execute it and lost interest halfway. The comfort is superb, safety and drivability are good and the performance is impressive. But the drawbacks in servicing and consumption are not worth it. The fact that it is a four-seater made the practicality so low that despite a few areas in which it shines, it would not have had a chance for a podium. Reliability is only average.

Bruno spotted a large store called “Savoir conduire”. Richard expained that this a french car dealer selling the most bizarre French cars while having a two-star restaurant with french cuisine. Both agreed to enter, since they were hungry and ordered “Fromuille”, frog with cheese.

“Well, that looks cheesy, too”, said Richard, pointing towards a yellow … something. Brunos eyes lighted up. A sports car with seven seats? He called for the waiter. Monsieur Leclerc arrived on the spot, giving Bruno the keys.

The car looked absolutely unique, and from inside, you actually felt like piloting a Porsche. There are absolutely no complaints about the drivability, since it was an FWD vehicle, wthich seemed absurd considering it looked like a Porsche, and the space in the third row is larger than Bruno thought. This car looked a lot smaller than it was, the length was impressive 4,90m. The comfort, as expected for something built by the baguettes, convincing. But the sportiness does not really live up to the looks, but that was not important - it was nice to drive, it was well-built, met all requirements, the 4+E gearbox allowed for bearable consumption on long highway drives. As for most cars having an engine with “le türboh”, servicing was a painful wakeup. MON DIEU! It was, in fact, more expensive to service than his former Primus Cognoscenti 500. But everything else seemed perfect.

Rank 2: Etoile Virile by @Ludvig
to the entrant: If I recieve a totaly absurd but actually brilliantly absurd idea, it is mostly by you. And it often leaves me behind with “What, that worked that well?” Well-thought-out engineering and high quality fixture work as always. A deserved silver medal. Maybe a 993 Porsche clone seems a bit outdated in 2001, so the design wasn´t full points but definitely scoring high, as expected from le maitre Lüdwig.

Just when he parked the car on the yard, he spotted a blue MPV. Billancourt, that was a more familiar brand than Etoile, but that model? Never seen before, must be brand new. The design was nailing it exactly between pleasant and extravagant. As someone working in car design, the looks of his car are top priority and the Billancourt was exactly what Bruno had in mind. He gently closed the door of the Etoile which was a very likable car, but then ran towards the Billancourt.
Sadly, it wasn´t as safe as the Etoile, but a hint more spacious and comfortable. Finding out that the cornering was more fun than in the Etoile surprised Bruno. Looking at the service cost, the Billancourt was not a bargain either, but better than the Etoile, and needed even a bit less fuel.
As a matter of fact, both cars are almost equal. The Billancourt looses a bit in safety, but not down to being unsafe, and returns slightly better stats in most other areas to iron this out. Reliability loss compared to the Etoile is 75 to 78 - this is more than made up by the design, where the scores are 9,5 to 8,5.


to the entrant: Everything done right, nailed the brief, had the right inspiration in mind. Not much to add to this, and an Avantime is very hard to replicate, so this work was impressive, too.

It might be a bit controversial, since this vehicle is clearly a ripoff. But I stand behind it for 3 reasons. Number one: The Avantime was NOT in the inspirations, so the entrant clearly made up his thoughts what Bruno would like, and found exactly what he would have liked. Number two: We all do ripoffs more or less, since our own creations are often affected by what real life cars we like. I mean, just look at the OP and the blue wagon Bruno drives… Number three: The fixture work was great, with many complex shapes and alignments. And that for itself is quite an archievement. And last but not least, look at that gorgeous interior, not using all pre-fabricated dashboards but hammering it together with 3D fixtures and it still looks like it actually is one single fixture.

Bruno signed the contract, got his new Billancourt delivered soon after, and his wife loved it. But how will it go on? That will be up to the new host.

Gentlemen (afaik I have no lady among the entrants), it was a pleasure doing a JOC with you.


In fact, the rear end also has shades of 993 about it, with its low-mounted full-width taillight clusters. However, underneath those 911-esque styling cues, it’s easy to forget that it’s actually based on one of the new '89 Ice Cream body sets added in the 4.3 open beta.

The Spacieuse, on the other hand, is more like an Avantime on the outside, but is as well-packaged as a contemporary Espace on the inside - complete with a seven-seat interior.

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Thanks to the host for hosting such a great round, i had a lot of fun making this big egg.
Also congrats to the other participants.
If y’all are ok with a bit of a longer interval (finals+vacation), I can host the next round(JOC5 ?), I could have the brief by this weekend.


Since three rounds of JOC4 have passed, it is up to you if you want to continue on JOC4 (JOC4D) or start with a totally new character (JOC5A).


Good show, I’m glad Bruno ended up with the pretty frenchie to be honest.
When I saw the Spacieuse I thought “that’s a sharp Scenic”, one I would want even if I don’t need a van. I wonder if Renault took a time-out before releasing the Avantime, ditched the silly coupe doors and Ford Anglia rear end, it would have sold more than the pitiful 8000 or so?

993 aside, the Virile was vaguely inspired by cars pretty universally considered the ugliest from their respective brands (Panamera, Multipla and X). I’m not sure how I got the idea, but I think it started with the very rounded rear end of this body, and as you mentioned, I do like absurd stuff.


As promised