As I have just discovered that vmo_7 has supplied us with a un-morphable standard race car body.
This means that we could now hold a race series with a controlled body putting everyone on an even playing field. ( I am just putting the idea out there I do not have the time/resources/knowledge to host) Now I usually put way too many restrictions on comp cars (and it has killed one of my ideas) so I just want to put a thought bubble out there. Would the community be interested in a Nascar Cup series of races? (with real circuits and real lap numbers)
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sure, could be good
I’d be interested. A standardized body with a reasonable ruleset would be a good challenge, and makes it a case of “Who builds the best engine for their horsepower” and “Who’s better at tuning” without being a case of “Why would you allow all these bodies, the only option we have is use the mid-engine supercar because otherwise we’re dueling for second.”
Now, to remain challenge friendly, we’d have to relax the rules/regulations a little bit from the usual NASCAR regs, or we’d just be basically building the same car with the same exact engine, just with different fixture placements. And honestly, cool as that would be for its own challenge (a Tuners’ Cup, if you will), I’d love to see the rules relaxed just a little. I’m thinking a horsepower limit, must have 8 cylinders, no turbocharger, and displacement in a range between X and Y would be appropriate. If we wanted to be more realistic, limit head types, or alternately (and I’d be more in favor of this one), limit valve counts.
Now, I’m not ready to host a challenge yet (after all, I have absolutely 0 experience and very little in the knowledge of what tracks I should use), but I can provide some ideas.
We all know 90% of NASCAR is driving in left hand circles. While I agree that some real superspeedways should exist for this, as well as some short-ovals, I’d like to see the number of left-turn-only tracks being… a lot less than 90%. Call me crazy, but I’d rather see a majority of the races being road courses.
A basic formula for tire wear would be nice to have. Also one for fuel consumption (even something so simple as “Every car has a 30 gallon fuel cell.” Pit times should be simple non-variable things. For example, and these numbers probably aren’t correct: 7 seconds for a set of 4 tires, 4 seconds for a set of 2 tires (ovals only), 3 seconds for each 10 gallon gas can added.
Crashes should be a thing, but never bad enough to either cause “The Big One” or to completely take a driver out of the race. At their worst, they should set a driver back by a lap or two. I’m sure someone has a formula that can be modified to take the drivability of the car divided by the tire wear and come up with something that sounds plausible as to why car 176 bounced into the wall on turn 3 and needed an extra long pit stop.
I’d love to see the cars having to look like cars, at least regarding headlights/tail lights and grilles/vents. Allow us to choose our wing, but mandate one on the trunk lid. Allow us to choose our lip, but require it to be on the front of the car. Otherwise, go as wild or as tame as you want.
I know, TL;DR. In short, I think this’d be a great idea, and I’d participate anyway, even if the rules are more strict than I’d normally like. With everyone on the same playing field, this could be fun.
That would work perfectly with allowing only 2 valve heads.[quote=“Madrias, post:3, topic:17079”]
We all know 90% of NASCAR
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Luckily we are not NASCAR (thank F) I was thinking a 50/50 rate with 50% NASCAR real world circuits 40% real world tracks and 10% Automation fantasy tracks with 12 races one each month.
again that would work perfectly
and I agree with the fuel/tyre wear and a standardized fuel tank
I would like super strict rules but that may limit newbies/oldies abit
I would happily do scrutineering and data logging but not the races my maths is not that great and neither is my work at the moment
as a little side note, i think two classes could be cool.
basically, you have a full blooded stockcar in class 1
and a V6 Dash car in Class 2
just an idea
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To whomever is going to run this, talk to @Sillyworld about using an edited version of his AMWEC calculations.
It could be useful.
What about drafting? I know this is more relevant on tracks with high speed and high proportions of full throttle, but if half the tracks are like that…
I was thinking something along this line, basically run multiple seasons over the years of stock car races. Have a level of criteria to meet in order for the cars to qualify like a minimum safety requirement would keep someone from sending in a big block powered go kart. It would have to be a modified version of a production car, so I was thinking having a base vehicle to submit, followed by a trim of the race version. Something to allow scrutineering to determine that the entries are actual production cars. As the seasons progress the rules could change like stricter safety requirements and displacement limitations. I’m not really a fan of NASCAR but I do think it would be interesting to see competitors work on making their car better at going in a circle (There’s a lot more engineering involved than you’d think.) Plus throw in a proper track here and there as a curveball.
Just thought of it too, limits on fuel delivery systems. For example your engine can only use a single four barrel carburetor. NASCAR didn’t adopt fuel injection until recently so I think a rule like that would work well for a long time.
You forgot one. DOHC. It still has advantages in rev limits, even if it is god-awful heavy compared to the others in 2 valve.
Still, it’s cool to see just how close the numbers are, and I’m sure those are essentially un-refined numbers, meaning they could get closer still with some compression or timing adjustments, or different people tuning blocks.
I like the idea of it, actually. “Your engine will be a 5800 cc V8 engine, bore 97.4 x stroke 97.3, with a cast iron block and aluminum heads, your choice of head, and no VVL.” After that, just specify which fuel to run with, and let the tuners create their own crazy engines up to the horsepower limits.
To horsepower limits, or with economy in mind for fewer pitstops if that is going to be in the challenge.
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Why don’t use real nascar rules?
Chassis: Steel space frame
Front susp: Double wishbones
Rear susp: Semi-trailing arm
Engine configuration: Long. RWD
Engine block: V8 c.p. 16v OHV
Displacement: max 5.86 L (358 cu in)
Compression 12:1
Naturally-aspirated
Multi point EFI (single throttle if we want to use a simil-restriction plate)
Fuel: Super 98
Manual Gearbox 4 speeds
Semi slick tires (same quality)
No carbon-ceramic brakes
Min weight 1,497 kg (3,300 lb)
captain obvious is here… brc-mechanics would be perfect for that…
About rules: Real nascar rules suond good to me, I would just put a little more diversity in there like as some of you already said any head type is ok and no compression restrictions. Maybe lower min weight as well. Oh and something about reliability.
i like that idea, but i think we could loosen up the engine regs to allow V6 Turbo engines (with adequate restrictions, of course) and see who has the better ideas in regards to tuning.
I will simply say this…give it time, give it time
and I’m sorry but v6 turbo NASCAR’s no thank you however flat-plane vs cross-plane v8 may be more Murican
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well there goes my 4 litre SkyActiv 
maybe as a one off nascar of the future 2020 class we could look at v6 turbo’s but personally I would rather wait (a long ass time) for supercharger and more turbocharging options before going down that road.
and I will just hint that I am working on something that will pit v6 vs v8 vs 4 that has not yet been done in the Automation community and is 50% of the reason I stepped down from the DRC
edit: @JohnWaldock it would come down to fuel efficiency and turbo a/r as really we are only looking at the top 2000Rpm and anything with the turbo setup to be efficient would not really utilize the top end revs without running out of fuel. Compare the fuel curves of the above engines to your turbo engine.
edit: @squidhead no single point efi for a comparison only with the same cam specs ect no slider use and i only did that as IRL it is still a 44bbl throttle with MPFI and i get sick of just using DI/Efi all the time