Part sales, Car shows and aftermarket parts

General Chat Suggestions
1

Have been thinking about some aspects.
I don’t know if stuff is already mentioned but here’s what i thought about.

  • Part sales
    I have seen or read that the engines you create in-game have a certain quality rating to them (in regards to wear) or that you thought about it.
    But this could also be used as to how fast certain part wear when the vehicle is sold which relates to part sales for repairing. Offcourse this can’t be to high (loss in sales due to poor quality car) .

  • Aftermarket tuning parts
    *I know about sub companies but how about a sub company especially for aftermarket parts (like Nismo and Mugen)
    *A different tab in the engine builder for prototyping these parts.
    In this tab you create a single part (like a better flowing header) on existing engines, could use the green/red labeling to see if it actually does increase the specs.
    *Maybe even using homologation for motorsports derived vehicles like the subaru impreza (must sell x amount of cars before you can participate with a vehicle)
    These cars could then be sold under that sub company with some already prototyped tuning parts atached to existing cars.

-Buying engines (or contracts) from other designers
Doing such a thing would obviously hurt the above mentioned after parts sales but it is easier and better for initial costs.
i read about crate engines but imo it would be better to have someone creating it instead out of thin air (don’t know if that was the idea with crate engines tho).

-Car shows
Participating in car shows with prototypes and vehicles that are being released.
Also you would be able to see what the competition is creating and releasing.
Maybe a different show for the tuning parts and cars (like Sema)

2

[quote=“dread_darven”]

  • Part sales
    I have seen or read that the engines you create in-game have a certain quality rating to them (in regards to wear) or that you thought about it.
    But this could also be used as to how fast certain part wear when the vehicle is sold which relates to part sales for repairing. Offcourse this can’t be to high (loss in sales due to poor quality car) .[/quote]

Im not sure how the Devs are going to model this kind of thing… I doubt we will actually produce and sell individual parts, but there might be some kinda profits from repairing cars at the dealership… I hadn’t really though much about it before, But I would love to hear what the Devs have planned for this.

[quote=“dread_darven”]- Aftermarket tuning parts
*I know about sub companies but how about a sub company especially for aftermarket parts (like Nismo and Mugen)
*A different tab in the engine builder for prototyping these parts.
In this tab you create a single part (like a better flowing header) on existing engines, could use the green/red labeling to see if it actually does increase the specs.
*Maybe even using homologation for motorsports derived vehicles like the subaru impreza (must sell x amount of cars before you can participate with a vehicle)
These cars could then be sold under that sub company with some already prototyped tuning parts atached to existing cars.[/quote]

Well we will be able to buy Engines or other components and even whole cars from other companies. As for the tuning parts Im not sure if that would really need to be a separate designer. As it is we have a wide choice of parts, we can put Tubular racing style headers on, a Short ram like intake(its called Trumpet intake in the video), and things like that… So there is no reason why we cannot make a sports or racing version of our cars with the current designer. You could even create Mugen as a sub-company to Honda and just offer tuned versions of your vehicles for example.

I also hope we will be able to modify the parts/cars we buy from other companies. So you could then play as an Independent tuning company that buys cars and modifys them.(I don’t see why not, but only the Devs know for sure)

The Devs have mentioned the possibility of being able to focus extra time & money on a certain aspect of the engine.(maybe other parts as well?.. Im not sure) That kinda thing could be used for Racing versions of cars and stuff like that.

As for the homologation for motorsports we won’t see that unless theres a motorsport expansion. But that would be one of the most important features of that expansion IMO… Of course theres no reason why you couldn’t make a racing version of your car and produce limited numbers and offer it for sale at ridiculous prices… But without the Motorsport aspect to make that paticular model popular, people may not want to pay those prices.

[quote=“dread_darven”]-Buying engines (or contracts) from other designers
Doing such a thing would obviously hurt the above mentioned after parts sales but it is easier and better for initial costs.
i read about crate engines but imo it would be better to have someone creating it instead out of thin air (don’t know if that was the idea with crate engines tho).[/quote]

In the begining of the game this would probably be the only viable way of running your small company. The AI companies would produce these engines/parts I assume, But I would also like to see companies that specialize in certain areas that don’t produce vehicles. Like getting Yamaha to design an engine, or getting bodies designed by Italian Coachbuilders like Ital or Bertone. But even if these companies aren’t in the game to begin with, It shouldn’t be too hard to mod them in…

[quote=“dread_darven”]-Car shows
Participating in car shows with prototypes and vehicles that are being released.
Also you would be able to see what the competition is creating and releasing.
Maybe a different show for the tuning parts and cars (like Sema)[/quote]

Sounds like a good idea to me… Although I think you should be able to see the competitors cars(atleast the basic info thats public knowledge) without having to goto a car show or whatever. Also more info could be gathered by buying a car and assigning engineers to study the design.(not sure if we will be able to do this in game)

3

We once long ago had a planned that you would want to build engines with shared parts.

So you would setup factories with separate production lines for conrods pistons, cranks, heads, blocks etc. The design different engines from these collections of parts, and having to keep a good stock of spares for the future repairs of vehicles. This all sounded good in principle until you take things to their ultimate conclusions:

So you design engines A and B to share a lot of the same parts, conrods for example. You make a change to the conrod design and start producing a new conrod. So we have to track storage and production of old conrods and new conrods, we now get 2 versions of engines A and B, a new revision of it and the old revision which we have to track and store. They would have differing stats. Also the Engine deisgner is complex enough in its current state without having to worry about manufacturing shared components across configurations.

You are manufacturing 2 different cars, a sedan and a hatch, the sedan and hatch also have 2 different trim levels and share the same engines. So therefore:
2 car types * 2 trim levels * 2 engine options = 8 different cars. Then the old engines stop being placed in cars, and new engines start being placed in cars.
So now we have to track 16 different types of cars, some with the old engines, with the old conrods and some with the new engines and the new conrods.

We then have to track these cars from the factory to the dealerships. The market then would have to run separate analysis to see how well they would sell.

And that is the pain by just changing 1 sub part of the engine, and technically the cars are the same. You have changed 1 part and the game tracks it all the way. Also displaying/conveying this information in the meaningful manner would be difficult.

Our system we have designed now is such that changing the engine will result in retooling costs and retooling downtime for that engine based on those changes.
Although this could be seen as a revision change this will be a totally new engine to the game and the car models will have to forcibly have their designs updated in the designer to the new engine, and again would be seen to the car as new cars. We want to have a bit of flare and drama to changes to cars.

As Drake posted, we have talked about the concept that after you have designed the engine in the designer you have a couple of choices, you can use it right away, or leave it with your engineers for a few months to concentrate on some areas to improve it. This leaves you with to choices:

You need to make a new eco hatch to compete with your competitor, you can:
Build an adapted engine of your current design quickly and have a lowish retooling cost, produce a new model of your current hatch using that new eco engine.
Build an adapted engine of you current design, give it to your engineers for a few months to tweak, still have a lowish retooling cost but in that time design a new hatch from scratch.
Build a new engine quickly, high retooling cost, produce a new model of your current hatch with the completely new eco engine
Build a new engine, give it to engineers to tweak, high retooling cost, and with that time you could design a brand new car.
And everything in-between, like new engine in old hatch etc.

4

since i H A T E programming (but still have to do so for the uni -.- ) i cant really comment on that aspect, but tracking all the stuff for the changed conrod scenario would be my cup of tea, and also realistic.

on a side note: as i understand your post zeussy, the old engine ceases to exist and then the old car it was implemented into too…

so my questions to that one

a) does one only design the engines and they get teleported in the selected cars, or is the seperate engine production line still in the game plan?

b) what happens to the eventual engine/car stockpiles at the factory? will just the enignes be removed from the cars and the new ones implanted, or will the whole thing teleported away? will the stockpiled engines get the changed part replaced (old=>new) or will they also teleport away?

c) same as b) but with the cars in the cardealer supply chain (on their way from the factory to the dealers shop) / in their shop?

PS: how was the GP?

5

There will be seperate production lines for cars and engines still.

There is still stock control for engines, but not for sub components of engines, and stock control for cars.

The problem with the conrod scenario was the non clear update for cars down the production, stock and selling chain. It allowed for constant little incremental changes which would put a lot of overhead on tracking it all, and trying to display that stack of escorts is actually comprised of 5 with old conrods, 5 with new conrods and 10 with new conrods and intakes although they are all “Mk3 escorts”. An important thing with game design is informed decisions, it would be too much and too hard to convey, how your conrod change has affected the sales of your cars as it whittles its way through the supply system.

With a system where you clearly commit to a new design of engine and car, is a part of the informed decision making process:

Information:
My competitor is making an economy hatch that is cutting in my hatch’s sales. This information is displayed as sales graphs over time, your sales going down, competitor’s sales going up.

Decision:
To make or adjust my current model to have better economy

Process:
Design a new economy engine, actively put it into a car. This car has a clearly unique identifier to it (Ford Fiesta Econetec) compared to your previous hatches

Information:
Watch the new car sales graph, has it been effective?

But you could have other decisions based on your firm. If it is more of a luxury mark, do you cut your losses and stop competing in the low end and focus on the high end of the market? Etc

6

So as it wouldnt be possible to have different revisions for engines in the same model, would that then mean we cant have a range of engines for the model, IE: ford escorts with 1.1, 1.3, 1.4, 1.6 and 1.8 engines for example? OR would these all have to be built as new models and just have the engine size in the name?

7

Tuned cars is indeed then possible (mugen nismo cars) :smiley: very nice.

But individual parts would indeed be a pain in the * now i think about it. I like games with micromanagement but with every individual part needing attention and the scenario zeussy described, it would become a real drag after some time. Although it could be implemented as it being automated and it would be handled by an “advisor” or something but then it would mean this game would become more of a capitalism kind of game because of all the different parts floating around.

But i thought of a different approach to parts maybe.
How about parts just being parts.
Parts factory (name it whatever) - Engine factory - Car factory
Or maybe a different compartement within an engine factory that produces “parts”.
Just like in games that uses tools. Building a house needs 5 wood 3 stone and 5 tools.
This way its just 1 named entity (or maybe some more, for the fun of it :stuck_out_tongue: )

edit this could also be used to get parts from another manufacturer which would in turn lead to that manufacturer getting the parts money for repairs at your dealers . edit

Speaking of Capitalism (the game) another idea came to mind.
I don’t know if this has already been implemented but how is the branding being handled?
In capitalism there where some different options for name branding when you clicked on your headquarters (don’t know exactly what they where, long time ago i played it)
This would in turn lead to a different style of creating products and advertising them. And there was a quality rating for products which could become higher (a bar on top of the quality bar) with advertising a certain product.
If you had a different branding strategy, you could for example advertise not just for your bottle of cola but also for the chocolate bars in one go but with a lower overall impact.
It is some time ago i played tho :stuck_out_tongue:.

With cars you could have a scenario like:
Vw Golf 1 1.3, 1.5 and 1.6 are being released - advertising for it leads to increased amount of “fame” for the product Golf, and creating a “hype” for it before release also by advertisement (and if possible in car shows)
All different types could share the same x amount of fame and hype but maybe some sort of buff for the different types (1.3 for a different crowd because this one has a high rating in fuel economy)
Main point is, Golf name shares a certain amount of fame across all types being released and even with completely new versions this will be transfered if the car looks promising.

I just played another game that has something like this called Gamedev story for my ipad (i think it is also available for pc) this one has the hype and fame parameters and also a sort of fanbase with individual age groups.

When viewing the youtube video of the engine builder i understood you have already implemented noise level of engine and other things so it will be for a certain crowd.

8

well ALL versions getting the same amount of fame i CANT agree with…

there are more popular versions, like the basic one for those who just wanna drive from A to B and dont care about anything else than the price, or the diesel versions for those who want higher mileage per fuel unit and the high torque near idle RPM, or the GTI version for the, aehm how do i put their local reputation in a nice way…, young who wanna impress chicks with it.

i agree with hyping a car, so that ppl say i want that car, lets go and see what options there are, which is how most ppl in RL go about buying a car i think.

9

Indeed Not All type’s the same amount, but a base amount just for being the Golf for example. This way a certain vehicle could sell better for just being a golf. Its bad having the same amount of fame to every type, that way there is no reason for other type’s
offcourse a Gti would be for a different crowd and should get alot of extra fame on top of the base for having a good power to weight ratio and having a nicer bodykit in a certain crowd (younger peeple, gear heads) but then crowds would need to be implemented.
I thought the game capitalism did the branding in a nice way and gamedev story did the fame and hype in an ok way.

10

I am not sure if I just missed that in the posts but will there be the possibility to just sell parts to the customers in the end? Like new suspension parts for the GTI drivers?

And will the system recognize a car history. So like when I build a Golf 2 wich is a new car it still gets a fame bonus for being the successor of the Golf?

For the complexity issues with parts, How about an upgrade kit:
You are producing car X with Engine A
You built a new Engine A2 and an upgrade kit for A that costs half the money of the new engine.
To make a logical link the engines have to be of the same size for example.

11

You won’t really be able to sell aftermarket parts no.

In terms of design revisions you’ll pretty much need to build a new model revision and make changes to it, making changes to the same model revision would result in a messy thing where you might have 500 cars that appear to be the same thing but have slightly different parts and thus specs.

You will be able to make a model range of the same car though (like different engine sizes etc.)

12

Juno, … you’re not the brightest part in the aftermarket, are you? Contrary to your belief, quoting spam links does NOT help.