I have no objections with the engine price, it does encourage a little ingenuity…
But of course I’d defer to the host (you) when it comes to setting the final rules.
For my two cents I’d leave the rules fluid for about a week, and see what turns up. Anything that really strikes you as out of place for your contest can help you define the rules. Then once you’ve satisfied yourself on the restrictions you can post a new set and add a clean slate leaderboard with different classes by year and car design 90’s sports car, 80’s family saloon, 2000’s supercar, as examples.
[quote=“strop”]I have no objections with the engine price, it does encourage a little ingenuity…
But of course I’d defer to the host (you) when it comes to setting the final rules.[/quote]
A thing I would put besides economy would be mandatory use of catalitic converters. any style would do.
I’d still want people to get creative with engine styles. just in case I have a v8 screamer, a turbo 6, a giant ohv v8, and a Big 4 banger turbo
In the spirit of the competition i’ve raised safety to premium, entertainment to standard and more sound isolation, should give something more production-esque 
In the spirit of the competition i’ve raised safety to premium, entertainment to standard and more sound isolation, should give something more production-esque 
That engine of yours is very oversquare right?
[quote=“Manche”]
[quote=“strop”]I have no objections with the engine price, it does encourage a little ingenuity…
But of course I’d defer to the host (you) when it comes to setting the final rules.[/quote]
A thing I would put besides economy would be mandatory use of catalitic converters. any style would do.
I’d still want people to get creative with engine styles. just in case I have a v8 screamer, a turbo 6, a giant ohv v8, and a Big 4 banger turbo[/quote]
With no year restrictions (a good thing IMO), catalytic converters is probably a tough one. Unless you set a certain year for them, as in the real world. In the US, for example, they were not “mandatory equipment” until 1975. Cars made before that time rarely, if ever, had one. This is reflected in-game, as regular unleaded fuel does not appear until 1970 and the catalytic does not appear until 1975. The course has been around since long before that, and should not exclude cars for that reason. Of course, cars made after their mandatory use should absolutely have one in order to be considered a “production street car”. I’m also pretty sure their mandatory use didn’t magically become mandatory in every country on the planet in the same year. 
I’m also not sure interior should be a requirement either. There are plenty of cars with no entertainment options as standard equipment long into the 1990’s, most often to keep them cheaper. I would think this is perfectly acceptable, but it will definitely take a hit in comfort and prestige. Perhaps a minimum on these based on year? (ie. 70’s minimum of 10 on both, 80’s minimum of 20, 90’s minimum of 25, etc.) Safety should probably at least be basic for a production street car, as those are usually guided by manufacturing regulations. Higher would be better but basic would be mandatory.
The tricky part to making these rules is enforcement. Who is going to check all of the cars submitted, or will we be taking screenies of each screen in the designer in order to submit an entry? Either would be tedious for someone, so keeping it as simple as possible is best. Checking them would be the only way to be sure, but there is always just a good old fashioned “honor system”? Above all, I am definitely in favor of creative engines, chassis, and configurations. Perhaps the top times list could include the car’s manufacture year to help make sense of the order despite times shown. I’m sure I will think of more. haha
[quote=“07CobaltGirl”]
A thing I would put besides economy would be mandatory use of catalitic converters. any style would do.
I’d still want people to get creative with engine styles. just in case I have a v8 screamer, a turbo 6, a giant ohv v8, and a Big 4 banger turbo
With no year restrictions (a good thing IMO), catalytic converters is probably a tough one. Unless you set a certain year for them, as in the real world. In the US, for example, they were not “mandatory equipment” until 1975. Cars made before that time rarely, if ever, had one. This is reflected in-game, as regular unleaded fuel does not appear until 1970 and the catalytic does not appear until 1975. The course has been around since long before that, and should not exclude cars for that reason. Of course, cars made after their mandatory use should absolutely have one in order to be considered a “production street car”. I’m also pretty sure their mandatory use didn’t magically become mandatory in every country on the planet in the same year. 
I’m also not sure interior should be a requirement either. There are plenty of cars with no entertainment options as standard equipment long into the 1990’s, most often to keep them cheaper. I would think this is perfectly acceptable, but it will definitely take a hit in comfort and prestige. Perhaps a minimum on these based on year? (ie. 70’s minimum of 10 on both, 80’s minimum of 20, 90’s minimum of 25, etc.) Safety should probably at least be basic for a production street car, as those are usually guided by manufacturing regulations. Higher would be better but basic would be mandatory.
The tricky part to making these rules is enforcement. Who is going to check all of the cars submitted, or will we be taking screenies of each screen in the designer in order to submit an entry? Either would be tedious for someone, so keeping it as simple as possible is best. Checking them would be the only way to be sure, but there is always just a good old fashioned “honor system”? Above all, I am definitely in favor of creative engines, chassis, and configurations. Perhaps the top times list could include the car’s manufacture year to help make sense of the order despite times shown. I’m sure I will think of more. haha[/quote]
I didnt thoughtbaoput it much because I was expecting this to become a racing league with time and budget constrictions with stripped down street cars
It shows just how complex things can get if we try to rigorously evaluate each parameter doesn’t it! How far one goes depends on the stakes.
In light of this I’m personally going to put far less emphasis on trying to get the best time etc. Instead if I do submit things here I’ll do a bit of a showcase to give you the story of the kind of car and its market.
[quote=“strop”]It shows just how complex things can get if we try to rigorously evaluate each parameter doesn’t it! How far one goes depends on the stakes.
In light of this I’m personally going to put far less emphasis on trying to get the best time etc. Instead if I do submit things here I’ll do a bit of a showcase to give you the story of the kind of car and its market.[/quote]
mhm
I was going to use my mid sized sportscar body and then take one of my previously designed engines and optimize bothe for the task at hand
I’m trying to work on an SLS AMG and get as close performance as I can to the real deal. So far I’m having MASSIVE issues on getting the same acceleration, even though the engine produces the same power, torque, parts usage, and so on. It even got put in the car and had slightly BETTER fuel economy than the real car (12.7 L/100km versus 13 L/100 km).
[quote=“Manche”]
That engine of yours is very oversquare right?[/quote]
It’s somewhat oversquared just like nearly all of my engines, which made it hard for me to get it to the 1500 price limit, with a bore of 96 mm and stroke of 83 mm. Most oversquare you can go to get 3.6L on an inline 6 is 101mm bore and about 75mm stroke.
[quote=“Dragawn”]
[quote=“Manche”]
That engine of yours is very oversquare right?[/quote]
It’s somewhat oversquared just like nearly all of my engines, which made it hard for me to get it to the 1500 price limit, with a bore of 96 mm and stroke of 83 mm. Most oversquare you can go to get 3.6L on an inline 6 is 101mm bore and about 75mm stroke.[/quote]
Oh! my my engines tend to be undersquare or square for economy’s sakae, though I know performance engines are oversquare often
[quote=“Manche”]
Oh! my my engines tend to be undersquare or square for economy’s sake, though I know performance engines are oversquare often[/quote]
Well I turn the stroke down to get to about the desired max RPM with normal forged pistons, but gotta keep the bore in mind for the weight distribution of the car.
Also, a higher stroke allows you to get more power in high RPM, problem ofcourse is that your parts suffer.
Here’s the final version of the stock i630DTS36 if you want to take a look:i630DTS36 '14Rev6.lua (75 KB)
The max power was at 7500 rpm before I revised the turbo setup, with a run-off to 7700. So that went wrong on design aspect. I’d have preferred a top RPM of 8000 but sadly everything begins to break then 
Okay, so here’s one a bit for the lulz, brought to you by somebody who has clearly been seduced by big fat 4 digit output numbers…
I played around with an oversquare huge block V8 (pertinent to the above discussion), to see if I could come up with a nostalgia hero car based on the Dodge Charger’s frame (because the new Challenger looks nice and all but where’s the remake of the Charger???). The essence of this model is part of the big beefy and somewhat overweight sector of American Muscle pony cars, as opposed to the (slightly) leaner, pricier beasts like the Viper. Of course, what ‘affordable’ really means varies from person to person, I imagine a car like this would actually be approaching 50000-60000USD… for the stock version… and I wouldn’t ever buy one myself).
Then some tuner got their hands on it and decided why not shoot for the magic 1000hp? Because every car that has 1000hp in it must be awesome. Not to mention it’ll rough idle like all hell and you’ll be fighting the clutch every time you stop at the lights, but, you know, A THOUSAND HP!!!
As you can see the mpg kind of isn’t great as a result, it’s actually just a little worse than Dodge Viper fuel consumption… but then again that’s hardly surprising given the engine was pushed to its limits.
Below is the full list of stats, as I wanted to show you exactly what this car might actually be like:
All quality sliders in the chassis and the modelling of the car were left at 0. It has a 6 speed dual clutch RWD drivetrain geared tall for easy cruising (but also because if you fang it down the salt flats you can get to 368km/h!!!) It sits on four sports compound 295/25R17s, the rear ones of which you could melt within the evening. Inside is nothing fancy, but you won’t be left lacking either, with 2 superlight seats, the default amount of sound insulation (which is to say, not enough to not be fairly overwhelmed by the V8 roar), standard entertainment options, all the usual driving assists (except for launch control, what kind of American Muscle needs launch control!?), and of course, the safety has been upgraded to Premium, because a car this fast on the road can easily turn into rocket powered doom.
(This post has to be spread over 2 as the attachment limit for a post is 3…)
Now you’re probably interested in what the engine block is actually like, and I can assure you, it meets all the requirements of this meet: <100 man hours, <$1500 material costs, >60000km MTBF, and it has a 3 way cat converter. The main problem I have with it is that it’s a little short on economy. I can easily get it to >20% economy by sacrificing about 40hp or so, but then it wouldn’t have had the ‘magic 1000hp’ and you know that number is simply, like, magic…
Finally of course here’s what this barge gets around Nordschleife.
I was aiming for it to have a comparable performance to the other modern US hero cars, which all score in the realm of 7:40ish or so, so that’s where it stands.
Having seen nialloftara’s post, I thought that was a good idea so I would submit this for your perusal. If you feel this is not in the spirit of things feel free to say so, otherwise I can provide the files if need be.
Ok Strop, you have gone officially mad now 
I think the biggest concern at the stoplight would be leaving in a straight line rather than the clutch with 1000HP on the rear wheels, and you’d probably get further with a charged Tesla than with a full tank of gas with that car. But ok, gotta love the 1K hp
I was wondering how you got the handling up to 1.25g’s, and then I saw the massive 295 tyres, they hardly sell tyres that wide, but ok
Sweet job on the car, surprisingly good values too (especially tameness considering the 1000 hp), even though it probably would only work in the US.
You think this was the first sign of my madness? I even fought the temptation to make it awd. POWAAAAAAAH!!!
Leaving the lights in a straight line can be achieved with a feather foot and heavy reliance on the driving aids… Perhaps I should upgrade them a bit…
I’ll detune the car to find its true stock roots. I’ll aim for a figure closer to 17mpg, that’ll be the benchmark.
Who wants to leave the light in a straight line? Dominic Toretto would be so ashamed hearing that! And…you did this on…
[size=50]PUMP GAS???[/size]
[size=25]And could have gone higher with 98![/size]
lol yes, I thought “this is an American car, can’t be going around demanding 98RON can I” Surprising what you can eke out huh?
On 98RON this engine can easily put out an additional 100-130hp* or so. But what I’m going to do once I get home from work is actually detune this engine so it might actually run on the road without mowing over a hundred pedestrians and burn a hole in your wallet from the gas money… then see if it can still make it round the 'ring in under 8 minutes!
p.s. should also have a bit of a hot hatch battle. I’ll go refine my Swift Eco and see if a new edition with a cheaper engine than the R can still be competitive! It’ll sure beat the hell out of the V8 clunker in economy and emissions…
*EDIT: huh, I think I must have forgotten that I had the cat converter off when I had it tuned to 98RON before, because it doesn’t make much difference at all. How about that.
Yeah, but 93 AKI is pretty much 98 RON, so you COULD feasibly force that since it was a tuner’s car. Especially if it was a Texan’s tuner.
[size=50]Mumbles something about hating Hennessey.[/size]
I’m still working on that SLS AMG… I’m still like 10 seconds slower.