The Car Shopping Round (Round 64): Tears in Heaven

Community Challenges & Competitions
1650

Note: I have a few graphics bits to insert that will illustrate the process a lot more concisely. Then we will be able to begin.

@abg7: Just remember, “less engineering units than Mephisto” is not that meaningful unless it’s sufficiently low enough that Kai can actually tinker with the car. What this means exactly I will go into more detail as this has generated some questions.

I’m not adverse to advertising without a product since I made a lot of chatter a couple of rounds previously, but regardless, I’m interested in the goods over the talk.

Now is a good time to add that Australians tend to have a severe case of a certain strain of Tall Poppy syndrome. You’re only allowed to talk big after serving big, get the order wrong and you’ll face a steep uphill battle. Kai is a Scandanavian living in Australia. Scandanavians live by the Law of Jante, which doubly frowns on talking yourself up. Obviously this is a bit different when it comes to Gryphon Gear because they went out of their way to be as obnoxious as possible to create a stir, but the bottom line is, if you go that route you’re going to need some serious ammunition.

@Denta This round will be an extended round and the flowchart + graph will make it a lot easier. The main difficulty in this round are the hidden pitfalls of freedom.

No, but the components picked make a difference. A +0 downforce undertray will, for our purposes, be a slight annoyance but like a semi and fully clad undertray, it can be removed without too much difficulty. The more high tech it is, the harder it will be to deal with. This obviously is irrelevant if the car has no undertray.

I’ll post a more complete list of “things that make the car harder to tinker with” shortly.

There’s a few bits and pieces that don’t count where they should, and that’s why the figures are going to be ballpark, and also why I’m looking at the choices you make individually.

Yes, but you’ll have to decide between yourselves who does the hosting should you win. I’m not adverse to joint hosting but only if we’re confident it won’t cause scheduling lapses.

Because I’m not a judgemental person :wink:

Yes, you can join in any round at any time before the round’s specified deadline. This round hasn’t had a deadline set just yet.

@lordvader1 DIDN’T BUY LOL

Sorry, I provided ballpark figures that also span several years, which means a pretty broad range. Please note, old cars and collectibles carry heft insurance penalties, which, depending on your approach, may or may not be important. You’ll have to look past the numbers and think real life for that, sorry.

Your image isn’t showing. Also, I really need to post the story about the Kusanagi soon…

Good question. I would say the presence or absence of a drop top is a net neutral thing in itself, so it’s up to you. As long as it looks sexy, and not superfluous or dumb, like making a convertible Holden Astra.

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1651

Any word on how much markup we should set for our cars?

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Make it realistic for your company, depending on whether it’s a stock production model and how mass-produced it is. For this reason I advise you to use the factory tabs. I will ignore market competitiveness values.

If it’s a restomod one-off, this will obviously be much harder to calculate, but I will consider using a modified version of @Sillyworld’s appreciation calculator, in which cars above a certain prestige threshold become collectibles and gain value over time.

1653

Well obviously the markup for the hypercar is irrelevant since there’s no budget, but for the daily I’m not sure what I should use. Before I normally used around 10% markup (like many rounds we’ve had here), but according to Killrob the ‘official’ markup for most daily drivers is around 20%. But I don’t want to penalize myself if I use 20% and somebody else uses 5%.

1654

True. For these purposes I will add that if a car does not meet Kai’s aesthetic requirements (and that’s not unlikely), the lower the markup, the more likely he is to douche it up because it’s obviously a cheap and undervalued POS, and therefore the less likely it is that GG will allow the purchase. Because we’re talking lo-rent dailies zone here, it’s also highly unlikely that Kai will desire the car enough to defy his colleagues.

See how it all balances out?

Hint: This should really be giving you the very strong impression that attempting to replace a Toyota Corolla with another Toyota Corolla will not work…

1655

I’m rolling a design about as an experiment, mostly testing ideas.

The sound of the inexpensive car is that we’re trying to build an inexpensive car that isn’t a total shitbox, while maintaining enough “This is Good” value to keep Kai from trashing the exterior, and yet offering plenty of opportunity to tweak and tune, because good luck keeping him from doing that. So we’re trying to make something small, efficient, but fun.

The Hypercar, obviously, is the hard part, because while it’s possible to compete with Gryphon Gear, it’s not something easy to do, especially when trying to allow room for Kai to possibly do something to the car, and while trying not to offend those in Gryphon Gear’s design department by offering up a car that’s… less than optimal.

Hence the hard part for me: I have a hyper car that… theoretically can best Mephisto. But, it’s stupidly expensive, hard to drive, and has typically crappy gas mileage. On the other hand, I’d have to build the replacement for the Toyota, but my American sense of styling is likely to bite me square in the arse because if Kai’s biased against American cars, I’m fighting an uphill battle, pushing the proverbial boulder while dragging my hunk of junk up the hill. So I’m looking at the fact that I have to somehow design a bit of a bold car while keeping in mind that if it’s too plain, Kai would ruin it, so it wouldn’t be purchased, if I make it too bold, Kai won’t want it, and if I don’t build it well enough, there’s no chance anyone would consider it.

So it’s tough. But I have a plan, and I’m hoping my plan works in my favor…

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1656

You’re pretty much spot on when it comes to the thinking process. However I’ve probably conveyed a bit too much of a dichotomy, so I’ll definitely recommend you see my flowchart and graphs when I get around to finishing them. I’m trying to work out how to make something readable in 3 axes… think I’m just going to have to make two graphs instead.

Certainly the “not shit and a bit stylish ecobox” is one end of the spectrum, and the “batshit insane hypercar that Kai can’t really tinker with but it’s even better than Mephisto” is the other. There’s possibilities in between, of course. Sports cars ranging from Lotus Elise to Alfa 4C are potential candidates. Mazda RX-7 (FD3S etc. generation) are also possible, though of course we don’t have rotaries but nevermind that. For something a bit edgier, supercars like the Ferrari F40 (except sexier) would also fit the bill, particularly the F40 being dubbed “last of the analog supercars”, or even other supercars and sports cars from that era could possibly compete, even though they cost more to run. And we don’t have hybrid systems, but cars like the new Acura NSX are hopeless in the “tinkerability” department but make up for it with livability and versatility. Hell, the new Civic’s quite bold and peppy and has more adequate donk and promises to be fun to drive, that could work too at the budget end of the scale.

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This may be the first round I dont create a brand new model specifically for the competition. I think I’m going to make a new performance oriented trim of my apollo city car. Its already got some really good looks to it and its a car I would really like to own.

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I approve of this approach. Models already existing on the forums are encouraged, it improves immersion.

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Oh, I’ve got an idea for the budget end, and it’s something that most probably wouldn’t see coming. I’m trying to keep my design, for the most part, tinkerable, although the very nature of all of my engine designs means it’s likely to lose a bit in the engine tinkering department. I aim to make up for that with… a bit of style and class. As well as pretty much leaving the rest of the car a tinker’s paradise, just there’d be a hint of Luke’s mindset in the engine, because let’s face it, DOHC is… kinda high on that list for a lack of tinkerability. And I’m trying to be economically minded about this.

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Its not already on the forums (although it was originally built for a magazine review that failed to be finished) but it was something I had already built and it was sort of designed as my dream car and it just so happens to fit into this challenge.

1662

This challenge is going to suck for me. Might just enter the Typhor 50th. It’s already made, and has some tinkering, and is cheap.

1663

So… When’s the due date?

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Regarding the use of factory tabs, when building a replacement for Mephisto, the engineering time will be long enough for me to have to employ the most skilled engineers, with heavy funding and a strong focus on efficiency.

1665

I do have a depreciation calculator, but I’ve never posted in the forums. I think you mean @DeusExMackia calculator :point_up:

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1666

You probably already know this, but for everybody’s benefit, make sure in the engineering tabs you specify whether the model is a full run, limited, or concept. This makes a massive difference in time to release!

Ooh good spot. Thanks!

@DeusExMackia That depreciation calculator was somewhere in this thread wasn’t it!

Will be posted formally when I get the flowchart and graphs up, but at this stage you may assume next Friday.

1667

@strop will we be marked down for using large displacement engines in the daily driver. I am not prepared to go up against your supercar skills but I am getting quite good at making mountain motor fun cars that will get great economy

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If it’s a tight squeeze you’ll be at a slight disadvantage, yes. Also if the driving dynamics are terrible as a result. See comments on Muscle Cars.

1669

ah but if it handles like a mx-5 but sounds like stroker ford motor (my favorite in game motor I use is a 557ci version of the ford 460) mwahhahahahaha FORD POWA
and awesome Idea BTW
edit @strop I may have something that may surprise you i usually go with really heavy interiors but not for my production car…
jump over to the salt flat sharing thread for a sneak pic

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Bit of personal advice for you for this round: you tend to build cars about 1.5x as heavy as I do :wink:

That said, Kai likes Nightfury. Nightfury has a large engine in it. And horrendous weight balance (like 57:43). But it’s crazy fast. But it’s also not a daily.