By now I wonder if the best thing wouldn’t be to do like in JOC and release just a ranking list, so it can go further…
To prevent challenges from taking too long to complete, there should (must?) also be a second deadline for each challenge - not for submissions, but for announcement of the final results.
How It’s a good, what I don’t participated.
Taking into account the fact that TMCC does not have a specific internal format, it seems to me there is nothing scary with that.
As for the third interval of dates, it seems wise.
But as you know, performance is the direct enemy of quality, you can turn quality into a spinning drum of a washing machine, and everything will become so optimized, that all topics will lose interest.
Therefore, it is necessary to make a grid of television, with the calculation of gaps for each stage. In addition, it seems to me right to limit the number of tests approximately to 4 in month, so that you don’t have to specifically monitoring the Challenges section.
And the tasks themselves should be divided into contests, challenges and competitions (that is, a match or a duel).
For example, the organizer of the current CSR will turn this advertising contest into a duel, which I am 98% sure of.
TMCC31 Vaporware: Stats Pt 1
Due to the WGA and SAG-AFTRA strikes, the producers were forced to delay their testing of the vehicles until they could find a test driver for hire. One month later, they’ve finally found their driver and a time slot at a local track.
Mori Skyroad Techsport GT-R & Bergmann Deich 3.0 Kombi Clubsport
The Mori Skyroad and the Bergmann Deich are two fairly similar wagons. They both have single turbo 3.0 V6s, they’re both incredibly quick accelerating, they both hit 300km/h, and they’re both very grippy. Unfortunately, they both have similar faults, most obvious of which is the unacceptable turbo lag. Neither car reaches full boost before 3,000rpm, the Bergmann hitting it at 3,200 and the Mori needing all the way to 3,800 before the driver is pushed into the back of their seat. Predictably both cars emphasis on all out performance also hurts their comfort. The Bergmann bumblebee isn’t helped by its semi trailing arm rear suspension, but it’s the Civetta that manages to be the least comfortable car in the field, its interior seemingly lifted straight out of a Ferrari 360. The wife and kids require more padding.
The Bergmann does end up suffering a slight bit with drivability, as today’s hired driver encountered a bit of twitchiness on rougher roads and found the front brakes don’t feed enough force to lock the wheels at motorway speeds. Nothing a good driver can’t handle, but it’s still bottom of the pack here. Ironically, it could also do with a few more revs up top as well, the 6,900rpm limiter stifling the 6,800rpm power peak. Overall, both cars are just too racy for their own good, and are thus out of the running.
Miller Marengo & Valiant Fortis GX6
At the other end of the scale lies the Miller Marengo and the Valiant Fortis. Both safe, comfortable, and easy to drive wagons for any family to love and enjoy. Unfortunately, the family we’re buying for isn’t just any family and desires a bit of oomph with their family car, and neither wagon really provides here.
The Miller Marengo is a modern Custom Cruiser, being five metres long, carrying a V8, and having unacceptably low grip. It has the second narrowest tyres of any car being tested, and is also the second heaviest car in the field. 215mm tyres are just not wide enough to handle more than two tonnes of American luxury, and as a result it doesn’t even reach 0.8g on the skidpad, and takes a terrifying 42.8m to stop from 100km/h. It doesn’t make up for this in a straight line, either, as while the 5.2 V8 has 267kW and 541Nm, the sheer mass means it remains one of the slowest cars on the drag strip. 6.8 seconds to 100km/h is barely above average for normal cars. For an engine with individual throttle bodies to be this uninspiring is frankly ridiculous. The 60-degree bank angle also makes it a bit rough too.
The lack of pace is a symptom of the Miller’s general focus of being a bed on wheels. It’s the most comfortable estate here and it’s not particularly close, but that has come at the expense of any sportiness whatsoever. It is easy to drive, but it isn’t fun. Rather, it’s a sensory deprivation chamber on wheels. The Miller Marengo will take you well past the motorway speed limit and you won’t even notice. This is usually a good thing; however sensory deprivation is really bad when you’re running away from bad guys. Coincidentally, so is its reliability. It’s not the worst, but it’s close. It’s VVL also engages at 4,800rpm, which is unusually late for an engine with a 5,800rpm redline. Unfortunately, as good of a vehicle as it is, the Miller Marengo just isn’t right for the task.
The Valiant Fortis is kind of like the Miller, but smaller and cheaper. It undercuts the Miller by nearly $8,000 and is both a foot shorter and nearly 400kg lighter. Unlike its more expensive competitor, it has a silky smooth 4.0L straight six, with 203kW and 410Nm. It’s reasonably economical, consuming 10.1L/100km, and costs less than $1000 a year to service. The bean counters love it.
Unfortunately, that 203kW power output is pedestrian enough that it’s even slower to 100km/h than the Miller, at 6.9s. Thankfully, the Valiant has 235mm tyres that are actually fit for the job of carrying it around corners, with 0.96g on the 20m skidpad. Unthankfully, the test driver still doesn’t like how it drives. It’s better than the Miller, but still the second worst on their list.
Overall, the Valiant Fortis just doesn’t quite hit the spot. It’s at the slow end of the field, it isn’t very prestigious, and it doesn’t have the reliability, safety, or really outstanding comfort to make up for it.
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When are you going to release the more detailed testing results for the remaining cars? Especially since four weeks have passed since your last update.
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yeah can we at least get something that isn’t radio silence, or is tmcc dead for good?
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maybe it’s time for the runner-up of 30 to take up the mantle, it’s been like three months already
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My opinion stays, since it seems to exist, just give us the ranking by now.
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This does feel like it’s getting a bit long in the tooth now, @SheikhMansour is very active on discord so I’m not sure why we aren’t getting any updates on what is going on here.
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Talked to the host. ETA for the results are 1.1.2024. After that the round will be closed and handed to someone else
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TMCC31 Reviews: Stats Pt 2
The Speedy
WM Wolford, Kotatsu V8 Salamander, Zephorus Demente
Here we have the fastest remaining contenders for the spot in the movie garage, the WM Wolford, the Kotatsu Salamander, and the Zephorus Demente. All three produce at least 300 kW (400 bhp) and rev past 7,000 rpm. They all get to 100km/h in five seconds or less, and complete the ¼ mile in under 13.5s. All are very grippy. But that’s where the uniformity ends. The Wolford is easily the biggest of the three, with its nearly three metre wheelbase and all steel construction, where the others have aluminium monocoques and at least some aluminium panelling, and are around 30cm shorter in overall length. The Zephorus has a V10 where the others have V8s, and twin throttle bodies in place of its compatriots’ individual throttles. The Kotatsu has VVL, allowing it a more relaxed cam for everyday driving while still going balls to the wall in spirited driving. And all three have differences in investment elsewhere.
@abg7
The Wofford seems to take stride in being a big brute. Beyond its large proportions, it has the biggest engine, at 5.5L, it has more power than any other car presented to the producers, with a whopping 500 bhp (373 kW), and its near complete lack of concern for weight saving means it weighs nearly two tonnes. Despite this, it’s the fastest accelerating wagon left, with an incredible 12.7s ¼ mile, using its power to full effect. It has sporty tyres, and magnesium rims inside them, and big four piston front brakes. What’s the catch for all this performance?
Comfort. It still has the premium interior you expect from a car at this price point, but the suspension is much stiffer than the competition and doesn’t have any fancy active modes or hydropneumatics to compensate, and the manual gearbox is nice for dynamics, but not for one’s left knee. Its only real advantage is space.
@Riley
The Demente has paid somewhat more attention to comfort, with its air suspension and softer tuning, but the engineers seem to have been obsessed with engine smoothness. The V10 has been saddled with the biggest crank weights and flywheel Zephorus could fit on to it, and an entirely unnecessary balance shaft. This does produce a very smooth engine, but at the expense of horrific throttle response. Otherwise, though, it’s a sensible car with sensible engineering. It’s comfortable, reliable, safe, and nice to drive, and while it has terrible fuel economy it’s reasonably cheap to service.
@azkaalfafa
The Salamander might have the most interesting engineering here. All aluminium construction, both chassis and panels, automatic gearbox, luxurious interior, and active suspension make this car a technological marvel. Unfortunately, that comes at the cost of reliability. The various auto journalists have found teething problems with the car in their tests, more so than the other cars here, and they look like expensive problems too. And despite the interior and suspension, it’s no more comfortable than the Zephorus. It has non-variable electric power steering, which the stunt drivers say saps feel. And for some ungodly reason this particular car was shipped to us with steel wheels. For a car with a full aluminium body, it is very curious, and for a premium wagon it is just stupid.
The Cruisy
Torrent Frigate, Primus Merit, Nordwagen Freya
At the other end of the performance graph are the Torrent Frigate, Primus Merit, and Nordwagen Freya. For this trio, performance is what Rolls-Royce calls “adequate”. 0-100 times in the sixes, decent fuel economy, reasonable service costs. What do these cars offer to make up for their performance deficit to the super estates?
The Primus offers a sub-$30k entry price that somehow manages not to compromise anything else. The engine is an unusual beast in that it’s the only one with five valves per cylinder, and with individual throttle bodies and direct injection you’d expect a responsive engine with a fondness for revs, much like the Salamander. However, the Primus’s 3.5L straight six has mild cams and a subsequent emphasis on torque and efficiency. 217 kW (291 bhp) and 404 Nm (298 lb-ft) is the result, and a responsive and meaty powerband is the delivery.
@Happyhungryhippo
Elsewhere the engineering is more conventional. Automatic gearbox feeding the rear wheels, alloy wheels, adaptive dampers on conventional springs. This, in turn, brings conventional results. It’s not the most prestigious of cars, it doesn’t have all that much grip, and the stunt drivers find the driving experience a bit boring, but it excels everywhere else and that makes it very compelling for the money. The positive front camber is a bit weird, though.
Nordwagen doesn’t do cut price, and isn’t all that conventional either. Just look at the Freya. It has suicide doors. Or coach doors, if you’re Rolls Royce. It’s the biggest and heaviest car here, with even less attention to weight saving than the Wofford. Like the WM it has all steel construction, but the Freya’s panels aren’t treated. This would bring rust concerns, but then how long does Hollywood keep its cars anyway? The 4.2L flat six, while all aluminium, is almost as heavy as the WM V8. It has VVL but no VVT. It’s smooth and responsive. The wagon has 400mm six piston front brakes and still meaty 345mm rears to help this 2200kg beast stop. The interior is as luxurious as it gets without going to six figure price tags. It has hydropneumatics suspension, the only car here brave enough to sport them. It pairs all of this with a manual gearbox.
@moroza
The Freya is like the Merit in that it doesn’t compromise on anything that makes it a good family estate car. It’s very much unlike the Merit in that it puts the extra $3,600 in its price tag into being much bigger, much safer, and much sportier. That money also goes into all-wheel drive.
As for the Torrent Frigate? Well, it provides the appearance of being a big, spacious wagon but is unfortunately outclassed by the Nordwagen just about everywhere. Sure, it’s more economical and cheaper to service the Freya, and thanks to being more than half a tonne lighter it’s slightly faster down the ¼ mile, but that’s where the good news ends. It’s not as comfortable, not as easy or as fun to drive, it’s not as safe as its compatriots, and it’s more expensive to boot.
@crwpitman1
Torrent has invested a lot of money into further shaving weight from its advanced steel structure, but this combined with the aluminium panels and safety features no more advanced than those in a normal commuter car mean that it doesn’t fare as well as a family would hope against an oak tree or an SUV. It has simultaneously left them with not enough money to invest anywhere else. It is the only car at the studio with solid front brakes. They’re 400mm, and maintain acceptable fade levels, but it’s still weird regardless. It’s also the only car here with standard rate springs, and one of only two with non-variable rate steering. It also doesn’t have electronic stability control. Torrent did put all-wheel drive into it, but with only 195 kW (262 bhp) it doesn’t contribute much to acceleration and it still trails the competition in all round driving experience.
The Opposites
Harlan Pursuit, Mara Kavaler
@the-chowi @AndiD
From the outside the Harlan Pursuit and Mara Kavaler look like completely different cars. The Harlan has big quad headlights, a bonnet scoop, and a giant lower grille. It’s also called the Pursuit. The only things indicating the Mara to be at all sporty are its dual exhausts and the 4.6 and AMM badges in the boot hatch. And yet both of these cars are V8 sports wagons with sub-six second 0-100 times, and both have automatic gearboxes feeding the rear wheels. Of course, with the Mara being $7,500 cheaper than the Harlan there are several points of difference in engineering.
The Pursuit has high strength steel in its chassis while the Kavaler makes do with regular galvanised steel. The Pursuit has direct injection and twin throttle bodies, while the Kavaler has intake port injection and a single throttle. The Kavaler has only five gears. Its brakes are three piston fronts and single piston rears, while the Pursuit has exactly twice as many pistons on each axle. Yes, that means six piston front brakes. The Kavaler doesn’t have ESC or the latest and greatest in safety, or the Pursuit’s adaptive dampers. The Pursuit also has a much more upmarket interior. But what does this do for the actual experience?
Not much. The drivability is the same, the comfort is the same, and the Mara trades sportiness and overall grip for reliability and economy. Unfortunately, the Mara is, well, a Mara. That means it won’t get as much respect as the Harlan, and unfortunately it also isn’t as safe as the Harlan. Of course, the Harlan, with its 6.6L pushrod V8, is even less economical than the Zephorus, and costs more to service as well. Its rear brakes, at 220mm, are pitifully small and thus fade with prolonged spirited driving. Its reliability is just about acceptable. But an oak tree won’t break your legs.
The Turbos
Clari Incroy, Saarland Siegel
@Vento @Knugcab
Things aren’t quite as they seem with these two wagons. The Saarland Siegel looks like a conventional big wagon with a turbocharged 3.4L V6. The Clari Incroy (no one here speaks enough French to parse out which of the many names is part of the company and which is part of the model) looks like a clay model was made full size, painted over, and given some rudimentary fixtures and a 2.1L turbo five. It’s also half a metre shorter.
Despite these appearances, however, the Clari is nearly 200kg heavier than the Saarland. Despite the toy factory styling, the Clari is not only drivable, but actually somewhat better to drive than the Saarland. The test drivers loved it, in fact. The Saarland has an absolute grip advantage, but that’s down to the tyres. The Clari’s smaller engine has more power, yet its smaller body is slower down the ¼ mile thanks to its extra weight. That extra weight is very easy to find.
The Siegel uses high strength steel in its structure and uses aluminium in several of its panels. The Incroy uses corrosion treated steel for its entire body. Clearly rust is a big problem for people near their factory. The Incroyi’s 300 bhp (224 kW) engine powers all four wheels through a dual clutch gearbox, while the Siegel’s manual feeds 263 bhp (196 kW) through the fronts only. The Incroy has a much more lavishly apportioned interior, and unusually has carbon ceramic brakes, with six pistons on the fronts. It also has active suspension, and a not particularly useful launch control.
Both cars have well-tuned engines, with not much lag for the Clari and practically no lag for the Saarland, and handle well, but the Saarland isn’t quite comfortable enough and doesn’t have the speed to compensate. The Clari is an excellently engineered car, but it comes at the cost of barely acceptable reliability and very expensive servicing. And unfortunately the design department seems to have gone on strike.
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Thanks for finishing this and still giving some short but helpful reviews.
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Never made ur Nissan wagon to a Nissan gtr
I am currently experimenting with a setting reusing some of @moroza s ideas, and the black window bug really ruins BeamNG production of Notruf 110, so a small break until the next patch could be used for judging, ep. 05 is already done producing and ep.06 of CSCS2 will be finished within the building period of TMCC32.
Expect a new chapter within 2 days.
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