Big Fruinian Muscle Cars Cup Stage 2 [FINISHED]


year is 2006
lvc’s new muscle car,
its called NEPTUNE

originally planend to use a 7 liter v8 engine, like his predecessor, but used a 3.5 v8 instead

made from corrosion resistant steel, so you dont have rust problems anytime soon. you can live near the sea without worrying about rust

engine is a 3.5 liter v8
making about 350hp and 316 of torque

gearbox is a simple 5 speed manual, and a lsd diff
on demand you can get a automatic

for your comfort, you get premium 4 seats,
but you dont get premium satnav, you get standard cd player :confused:

fuel economy is kept 8-9 liter per 100KM, so this car can be your daily driver, not something you only drive when you get your paycheck

almost perfect weight distribution, potential drift car

May have to pass on this :frowning:
Not good at making fuel efficient cars…

I have madee 4 or 5 cars, none of which can reach the fuel requirements. :sob:


  1. The title already said FRUINIAN. I’m guessing that means something. But i don’t know what it is
  2. Are you going for muscle or budget pony? 5% rate is for budget pony. And 8% if it’s for muscle like you said.

@Fayeding_Spray try again? It’s not THAT hard to gain it. Keep the afr lean and cam profile middle-low. You won’t get much specific output, but that cam profile is critical to the fuel consumption

Im making 550+ hp out of a 6.0 V8 while meeting the fuel economy standards in the challenge, not hard at all.


See, I’m not good at the game :smiley:

Heheheh. * ahem * Carry on.

I dont know if it’s THAT easy.

I had to make some compromise i didn’t really prefer.

Finally settled on a power figure that’s below what i’d like

Its pretty easy, very lean fuel ratio, aerodynamic body, use better valve configs, light chassis parts and a overdrive.

I get almost 23 mpg with 335 tires, 3100lbs and 550+ NA horsepower and 21k cost

It is actually not hard if you’ve the right fundamentals. Or you build a total land barge as Dark shine did so he could put freaking CARBS on it :joy:

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I had problems getting carbs to tune in economically…so had to go with injection. :frowning:

in the end carbs were just too unreliable for this build centrepoint efi can still produce the numbers however i will admit i used efi in the end just so i could run higher compression on lower octane fuel. You can easily get the numbers using carbs however you will be down on torque. And also muscle cars are not light these days an Aussie falcon or commodore (4 doors cars) roughly average 1800kg’s in their utes! @strop AND CARBS RULE OK, I am a drag racer through and through and IRL carb’s atomize the fuel just that little bit better, they are just pigs to keep in tune and they sound soo much cooler than efi lol I just wish we had cooler filter options on the twin 4bbl’s in game

Well my 8.1 mohv v8 makes 405 HP@5400 , ~500 lbft @2400 and returns about 26mpg. I didn’t get time to rework the scores so it reflected what I envisioned, it ended up being a muscle car, but with a pony price tag. I was really aiming for pony though, oh well.

Whats everyones obession with carbs, sure they are cheap but they efi trumps them in every way, other than cost.

actually carbs vs efi is not that straight forward. carbs actually atomize and cool the incoming air much better than efi, back to back for straight line speed carbs trump efi (there’s a reason pro stock cars still use carbs) however carbs require constant tuning this is where efi come in to its own as you can change your tune in a matter of minutes where with carbs you may have to change jets and ramp up rates etc (especially when using blow thru carbs). Look at the engine master comp held each year carbs always come out on top for power production. Also carbs are not cheaper when you start factoring in multiple sets of jets/gaskets/spare parts, manifolds (x2 if running twin carbs). AND carbs look and sound cooler than efi

The reason fuel injection never wins in Engine Masters is because its either banned or severely limited, such as a 65 psi limit they are doing this year again, when some DI systems are into the 2000 psi range.

For 2016, fuel injection is prohibited on Day 5 (Nitrous Power Adders) and Day 2 (Spec Big Blocks). Even over head cam heads are banned.

The restrictions for Engine Masters are pretty complex but they dont have any evidence of EFI vs Carb on an identical engine, so using engine masters as fact for carb vs efi is pointless.

Atleast here in the states, NHRA pro stock cars are switching to efi with a 10,500 rpm limit.

Formula One also uses direct injection now, and has used efi for quite some time.

Even ingame, EFI is better in every way but cost.

Engine Masters Youtube show done it aswell. Though for this video, its a fairly basic EFI systems vs carb, as you cant just go buy a direct injection system for your small block or ls etc.

look we can argue all night the truth is at the strip carbs rules

DOHC has only been allowed for one year and the mod motors killed it!!! go the fords![quote=“USDMFTW, post:137, topic:16413”]
The restrictions for Engine Masters are pretty complex but they dont have any evidence of EFI vs Carb on an identical engine, so using engine masters as fact for carb vs efi is pointless.

The main issue with obtaining the best performance using a carburetor is that it can’t monitor the air to fuel ratio for each individual cylinder. If there was a carburetor for each cylinder then this would not be an issue. So with a carburetor, the best fuel to air ratio for each cylinder is approximated for the best performance.The main benefits to using direct injection is that the amount of fuel and air can be perfectly released and then injected into the cylinder according to the engine load conditions. The electronics used in the system will calculate this information and constantly adjust.When looking at pure horsepower, the fuel injection system only delivers about 10 extra horsepower at peak(using a 302ci engine). It is the ability to constantly be tuning the fuel and air intake for each cylinder that benefits the performance.If the carburetor was supplying the engine in question with the proper air to fuel ratio, the EFI’s advantage is gone. Remember, EFI has a computer to tune the engine. You have you. If you know how to tune you’ll have the advantage. Carburetors (at the risk of sounding chauvinistic) are a man’s game. Guessing rarely works. You have to know how to actually tune an engine.Remember a carburetor is an atomization/emulsion machine. An injection system is a proper air to fuel delivery ratio machine. Two different concepts. If a carburetor can be designed to supply the perfect air to fuel ratio all the time it should consistently outperform EFI. Its design lends itself to have an unfair advantage in atomizationObviously adiabatic expansion is the next question on the list. So if we take a good look at the carburetor we see its not only a perfect machine for atomizing fuel, it also has another advantage. The Joule-Thomson effect.

Tests performed using quartz plates and infra red sensors located in the plenum area beneath an average Pro-Stock engine reveal an intake manifold temperature drop on a 85 degree day of almost 20 degrees as a result of the the carburetor creating this effect.

So when your neighbor with EFI is ingesting 85 degree air, your power-plant could be ingesting 65 degree air.

That’s a nice advantage.

But let’s not skip over the atomization advantage. In a high end designed carburetor the fuel is emulsed to lift it. Its a controlled froth. I won’t kid you, it’s very difficult to control. Its much easier to build a carburetor that operates on a vacuum to ratio concept. But the fogging advantage is gone.The disadvantage of carburetors used to be restriction.Now that these same modern built engines can operate on as little as .5 hg of vacuum at the starting line and only 1-1.2 at the finish-line, the restriction is nil. Really it all comes down to getting the air to fuel ratio correct. If a carburetor can do that, it should win the race every time. After all, by design, it’s a superior emulsion machine.

I disagree that they’re superior emulsion machines. The indrect one in the challenge used a mere 45 psi, modern DI systems using piezo-electric actuators go up to 29000 psi. The higher the psi, the better the atomization of the fuel, although to be fair, a higher pressure is required to get fuel in during compression stroke to begin with (let’s say 145 psi air pressure when fully compressed, that’s still 200:1 compared to 4:1 of the 45 psi indirect injectors). While indirect injection may indeed be inferior raw performance wise, modern injectors cannot be underestimated.

These injectors, especially DI can’t just be bolted on as you can imagine, especially not if you want to use lean-burn technology. Also high displacement engines are getting out of fashion in this day n age, so it’s logical that the behemoths of then still rock carbs and the drag strip

This, the higher psi of modern injection gives better, much, much better atomization then the 40-60 psi of the “bolt on” efi systems you can buy for a few thousand today.

@Darkshine5 copy and pasting a random wall of text from the website of a speed shop in Michigan that produces racing carbs for money isnt going to say that efi is better than their product. Even more so, based on what i could find, that the article is written between 1999-2002. So it holds no merit really.

Just as another point even the most recent copo camaros all used fuel injection.

Id also be willing to bet that an EFI car will win the challenge.