Journey of ownership 1 - Discount Elvis - Part 1D (finals)

1986 Arlington Foxhound GS 5.0

This is the 1986 Arlington Foxhound. It’s an American muscle car - and to that end, it has a 5-liter V8, rear drive with a limited-slip differential and gas shocks, and variable-assist hydraulic power steering. It’s also equipped with something most pony and muscle cars lack: A diagonal-arm, fully-independent rear suspension.

Now, the Foxhound does have a couple of compromises for the mid-1980s. The engine is catalysed and central-point-injected - and being that it’s still a lazy pushrod, not substantially changed since the 70s and with an overall design from the 1950s, it only makes around 195 horsepower. And backed as it is with a four-speed, electric-lockup automatic, it takes an unimpressive 7.5 seconds to get to 60.

As compared to most earlier muscle cars and even its contemporaries, the Foxhound’s GS trim is well-equipped and comfortable in a way that makes it look more premium than budget. You get lidded cupholders, you get a driver’s airbag, you get a cassette player, and you get light-silver leather in the interior. The 4-speed overdrive transmission also provides efficient, low-rpm cruise even on the highway.

Between the practical seating, the glass-and-steel hatchback with gas strut, the comprehensive safety and entertainment package and all the other features, the Foxhound is not just a muscle car. It’s just a good car.

3 Likes
7 Likes

And entries are closed. Expect results soon

7 Likes

Instabins

@Texaslav Trim ET over the limit

The Reviews

It was a peaceful Sunday morning. Amanda had gone for a walk, and meanwhile, Keith was reading the newspaper. In the last pages, the used car section. He wasn´t prepared to get rid of his previous car. “I guess you are never prepared for something like this” he thought, and so he started looking for a substitute.

SUMA SELECTA @Banana_Soule


“I can´t find it´s country of origin, but it´s giving me strong soviet vibes. They were known for snapping in half in the event of a car crash aaaand… that´s enough for me”

(Good car, for another challenge. No reason to go so underbudget. Looks are pretty solid for a car of this era, though)

Riemann 250S RTA @ChemaTheMexican


“It´s still an excellent family car, but that engine… that engine on itself is enough reason to try the RTA. Probably not the best financial decision, but you only live once…”

Brampton 3500PP @conan


“They had a really good reputation when they were new. Pretty good all around, and the police forces gave a good use of them back in the days. And the boot… immense was not enough to describe it. Still, they never felt as a particularly cool car to me”

(This one was tough. Stats are really good, but your competitors are slightly better in key areas)

Axuus Sabre SE @DuceTheTruth100


“When released, the looks were considered controversial. But the weirdness doesn´t stop there, the chassis was made of corrosion resistant steel, which reminded people of the Delorean. To draw more parallelisms, both were equipped with under-powered V6s. A misunderstood car for many, but for me it was just a weird design”

(Abysmal sportiness and fuel economy are already bad enough, but some weird engineering choices were made too)

Régal 142 Sport @karhgath


“A more tame and sensible alternative to the Riemann. Despite of having half the horsepower, it still delivered a thrilling drive, which proves once again that brute force isn´t always the answer. The Regal feels like a really well rounded package, even if it´s missing a 5th gear”

Saarland Zandvoort ES @Knugcab


“20 years too soon for me”

(Keith is still young and looking for exciting stuff, which this car isn´t. Comfortable, safe and economical are nice attributes that our protagonist has yet to learn to value)

Wolfram Wolfhound 3.5 GT @abg7


“The most bang for your buck. The combination of good performance and reasonable price ended up attracting the wrong kind of people towards this car, which is why many of them are now fitted with bodykits of dubious taste. This isn´t the case, thankfully”

Auzenne 18 Procyon @BannedByAndroid


“French but in a good way. While FWD saloons aren´t my cup of tea, this one packed a really awesome piece of engineering. A 16 valve inline 4 which not only gave really strong performance,but also was reasonably economical and, oddly enough, incredibly reliable”

Legion Mora RS15 @donutsnail


“There´s a child inside of each of us. Mine wants this. But my adult self… also likes it. FWD doesn´t have to be boring after all”

FMC Alpine Base @Lanson


“While the brakes are impressive, I´ve heard incidents of them giving up in the most inconvenient situations. Also, I don´t know how to feel about the styling”

(You went for Advanced 80s safety but negative quality in the brakes. Also, styling doesn´t really match the body, especially at the rear. The worst comfort and reliability out there)

Aether Ascia 1.8 Turbo Injection @Yegoloda


“Is this the real fuel economy?? It doesn´t look like the turbo was really worth the extra performance”

(Probably my fav car in the bins, it looks realistic and pretty cool at the same time. But yeah, turbos are borked right now, and you also made the suspension racecar-stiff, which would have binned you anyway)

Valiant Laser S @mart1n2005


“I didn´t know they built Capris with a v8. Oh wait, this isn´t a Capri. And it rusts much faster. It´s a no from me”

(Terrible fuel economy, along with a really stiff ride, and the styling is probably too much Ford Capri alike)

Zephorus Divertimento @Riley


“If I was the villain in a movie, I would drive one of these. But in real life… Awful fuel economy, a cramped engine bay and in the end, it looks like a bodykit”

(Looks are incredible and stats are pretty good, but a combination of awful fuel eco, service costs and ungalvanized chassis could be a financial ruin. It also bottoms out if pushed hard)

Munot Alpharia 224 Rallye @Quneitra


“I wouldn´t have guessed it´s a Swiss car, but anyway this is a pretty awesome little hatchback. The 16 valve head really transformed the Alpharia into something else, even if it tended to blow head gaskets from time to time”

Onaria GT230i (5MT Tourer) @Restomod


“Onaria tried to show their technological prowess with the engine. Aluminum OHC head, variable intake lenght and electronic fuel injection. But I guess they focused too much on the engine and not enough in the car. It understeered like a truck and the ride was harsh. A shame, since they really tried with this one”

(Bottom tier reliability, economy and service costs. Another case of negative quality on brakes too)

Finalists

The lucky ones

BannedByAndroid
karhgath
ChemaTheMexican
abg7
donutsnail
Quneitra

9 Likes

Exactly what on Earth do you mean? Is the way turbos are handled in 4.27 somewhat… off? That might explain why I didn’t bother going with the turbo engine I originally planned for my entry - I went for a big naturally aspirated I6 instead, and it paid off handsomely:

That mostly explains why the Wolfhound ended up moving to the finals for this stage of JOC1.

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I think turbos are acting as intended right now, they used to be far too efficient. I believe with the new fuel mapping feature there will be parity between turbo and na engines

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They used to be too efficient, and now they are a little too inefficient. And nowadays NA VVT engines are arguable too efficient. The NA/fuel revamp, as you said, will bring balance.

Yup, that’s precisely why I went for a 9k redline NA rally engine - turbos seem a bit borked, so I don’t really want to touch one until the revamp is complete.

Also, 9k rpm insanity is fun :grin:

Hey just a heads up, that’s not how quality sliders work. They represent advancement (or lack of) in terms of years. So, if I slide the quality down two notches to meet a budget, what I am doing is not putting on bad or unreliable brakes, but instead putting on brakes that are 2 years behind in terms of innovation.

Correction, each tick of the slider is worth two years of advance or lack of, not one.

1 Like

By the way, the simplest form of VVT on 4-valve DOHC engines (which only applies to the intakes) unlocks in 1988 in the sandbox - two years after the eligibility period for entries in this part of JOC1 (which spans from 1980 to 1986 inclusive). I was still able to get a decent amount of efficiency from the engine I used for my entry, though.

The Reviews Part 2

With the car list narrowed down to only 6 cars, Keith arranged test drives for all of them. Since it was going to be used by his whole family, Amanda would go with him to make sure he didn´t end up buying another unsafe, small sports car. With that in mind, they got into their Golf and drove to the city center, where the first car was waiting for them, a red Auzenne 18 Procyon (@BannedByAndroid )

The first thing they noticed when getting close were those flared wheel arches, giving the car a pretty muscular look. The owner was waiting for them, he bought it brand new 6 years ago, and had used it regularly ever since. Keith checked for signs of abuse throught the car, but the owner had taken care of it. The boot was also massive, excellent for a young family. With the exterior checked, it was time to drive.

It was hard to notice when the engine came to life, as it still had the stock mufflers. Driving it around town was effortless, the engine had a pretty full powerband and the steering proved to be excellent, despite of all the weight in the front axle. But once out in the open, all that weight started to be noticeable. It really refused to turn at first, even if a second later it would corner like a champion. Another thing they noticed was a weird smell after a few bends. In the highway back to the city, the car really behaved though. The quiet engine, along with a soft suspension, suprised both of them. Fuel economy also proved really good, the advanced engine design really came to shine here. But once out of the car…

“Well what do you think?”
“I almost threw up in the bends, the rear suspension does a really weird thing when taking bumps”
“Oh, that´s why you were so quiet. Well, I´ve just found out were was the smell coming from. The brakes were overheating for most of the ride”

But there was still a whole day ahead, and now it was time to check the next car, a Régal 142 Sport (@karhgath)


“Wow that really is a tight spot”
The owner of the car, proud of his parking abilities, started to show them the car. Apparently, he bought it used as his first car. Despite of the abuse, the car still seemed quite sound. Under the bonnet there was a quite humble 4 cylinder, with the only hint of performance being a set of tubular headers. Both Keith and Amanda liked the looks of the car, even if he really struggled to name what the colour of the car was.

Once inside of the car, the thing only got better. The interior featured all the leather you would want, and the seats almost fixed the problem of the sporty suspension tune. The car was a pretty balanced platform, both steering and suspension worked together to deliver an exciting drive. In the corners, though, it was limited by some rather unsporty tires, but that was an easy fix. What wasn´t so much was the lack of acceleration. The four speed gearbox was tuned to deliver a relaxed cruise in the highway and excellent fuel economy, but it meant that the first gear was too long. In the end of the drive, the brakes showed slight signs of fade, but inside of what´s considered normal in such car.

“I really liked this one, what do you think?”
“It was really nice, the interior is spacious enough for all of us, and the looks are pretty good too”
“Yeah i think so, also, they are really cheap to run and give almost no problems, which means we could really give it a lot of use”

A good impression, but still some cars left. Like the Riemann 250S RTA
(@ChemaTheMexican )


They arrived to the meeting point, but there was no car waiting for them. Right when they were going to give up, they heard it. The roaring of an engine getting closer and closer, and then, it turned the corner. A black-and-grey beast of a car, and probably the wet dream of a drug dealer. But the owner was just a normal middle-aged man, who wanted to sell it and buy a motorhome for him and his wife.

“It has gave us a lot of fun, but now it´s time for someone younger to enjoy it”

The car gave the impression of luxury in the outside, which contrasted with the pretty standard interior. It wasn´t bad by any means, but they were expecting more from it. Anyway, no one bough an RTA for the interior. Under the bonnet, the crown jewel, a 230 hp v8. You could see the shock in Amanda´s face when she heard that figure.

But on the road… She was still in shock. Acceleration proved to be more almost excessive, and the handling was just as sharp as in the Régal. To help tame this car, though, the brakes came equipped with ABS, which along with a pretty big set of discs, meant that you could slow down without surprises before a corner. Comfort was excellent too, a good suspension tune along with the big interior made it a much more comfortable car that the ones previosly tried. What didn´t feel so good was the lack of safety equipment. No airbags and little to no padding were a big no for Amanda.

“That was awesome! I think we could get it right now”
“Slow down, you have children remember? Also, I doubt you noticed, but you almost emptied a quarter of the tank”
“We´ll keep looking, but I don´t think we are going to find anything better”

Don´t worry, their marriage is strong. And now, the Wolfram Wolfhound 3.5 GT
(@abg7)


The car was parked, waiting for them. A full blown sports car, even if it was not very exciting looking one. A spoiler at the back really said performance, though, and through a brief exterior check Keith was able to notice the tyres, properly wide and sticky. As the owner told them, he bought it second-hand and restored it to original spec. The work proved excellent, even having the original rims.

The interior was an awesome place to be in, with leather everywhere and the original casette still playing. The red accents only made it better, giving the impression of sitting in a more expensive car. Finally, before taking it for a drive, an engine-check. A big and smooth inline 6, more focused into mid range torque than top end horsepower.

On the road it really behaved. At slow speeds the engine proved excellent, with heaps of torque available, and in fast corners it behaved for a car with such a big engine over the front axle. But the biggest surprise was the general GTish feeling of the car. Steering felt good at all speeds and the suspension, while not overly soft, gave a very good ride. Driving back to the city, Keith got to try the acceleration at a few red lights. Despite of the long gears, this engine coupled with a geared diff gave him a strong impression of the car, and the brakes just kept working perfectly after all the hard braking.

“Not the most exciting looking, but it really drove well”
“It certainly did, and it´s pretty safe too according to reviews”
“Yeah, perhaps looking for more cars after the Riemann was not a bad idea”

Only two cars left, now turn for the Legion Mora RS15 (@donutsnail)


“They don´t make it like they used to” Said the owner.

Keith obviously noded to this statement. But his attention instantly turned to the bright red sports car. A more brief than usual exterior check was made, which didn´t find anything unusual. Well, it technically did, but since the car came stock with the biplane wing and white rims, it didn´t count. A good set of sticky tires and the racing stripes were the cherry on top of this car.

Now, on the interior, the little Legion still gave a good impression. It was obviously smaller and less plosh than previous cars, but the Recaro seats would be a welcome addition in curvy roads. And sitting ahead of the front axle, and really low to the ground, there was the engine. A small but powerful for it´s size 4 cylinder boxer. That intake body on itself was a work of art, and the headers, though hard to see, also screamed performance.

And yes, they screamed. Once behind the wheel, the couple got to check how loud the car was. Keith was in love with the rasp and characteristic sound of the engine, and the handling… The car was going through corners effortlessly, even if it was slightly understeery at the start. Also notable was the ABS in such small car, and while front brakes were excellent, the rear drums couldn´t keep up with the rest of the car. Acceleration was decent, probably due to a combination of low power and gear ratios. Suspension was on the hard side, and while potholes were terrible on this car, it really helped with the cornering.

“It´s red, it´s fast, it can fit the whole family, what else do you want?”
“It´s certainly a fun car, and it´s also quite easy to drive around, but i wonder if we´ll get tired of it after driving it for a while, suspension is rock-hard”
“I wouldn´t say rock-hard, but I´m willing to suffer a bit if this is the reward”

And the last car on this long list, the Munot Alpharia 224 Rallye (@Quneitra)


Keith and Amanda were exhausted after a long day driving around, but there was a car left. When they arrived, they got excited again. It looked cute, at least according to Amanda, and Keith recogniced the potential of this car when he noticed the wheels almost sticking out of the body.

The plastic bumpers with integrated headlights, the door handles, the rubber spoiler at the back… all contributed to give a really strong 80s feeling to this car. 4 exhaust tips? This car must be hiding something under the bonnet. And right there, an all-alloy boxer engine, with 16 valves and 160hp at 8200 rpm. A crazy power figure for such small car. The interior was pretty unremarkable in comparison. Five full seats and enough space for a medium sized family.

Slight signs of understeer, but crazy cornering nontheless, and acceleration was unbelievable. Braking was good, even if the front brakes could be stronger, and with almost no fading after all the curves. The close ratio 5-speed was an excellent match for this car. What wasn´t so good was the peaky powerband. Engine felt anemic unless pushed hard, which made city driving a bit of a struggle, he actually managed to stall the car a few times during the drive. It felt more like a race car engine.

“I have mixed feelings with this one”
“Yeah, I checked the reliability records while you were driving, and it is a bit of a mess, especially the engine”
“It doesn´t surprise me, but if we take enough care of it…”

Results

Most of these cars were pretty close stats wise, which made choosing a winner a pretty difficult task. In the end, the sensible yet fun to drive Regal won. The Legion, on the second place, was almost good enough to be worth a divorce. Finally the third place for the Wolfram, which was another excellent car stats wise, but slightly less exciting than the competitors.

1- @karhgath
2- @donutsnail
3- @abg7
4- @Quneitra
5- @ChemaTheMexican
6- @BannedByAndroid

7 Likes

The spoilers on this trim are nonfunctional - they are not actual lip fixtures, but body moldings.

Exactly as I planned. Red interior trim was quite common for sports and performance cars in the 80s.

Again, precisely what I was aiming for.

I did, however, make a more focused trim with a dual-overhead cam engine, larger-diameter wheels, and functional spoilers (real lip spoilers this time) - it’s called the GTS. Here it is:

And if nobody ahead of me is willing and/or able to host, I will happily take the reins for the next stage of JOC1.

1 Like

Grats to all the finalists, seems like a very tight race!

I’ll gladly host the next Keith round, but since it’s a holiday weekend here I won’t have time before mid-week to start working on the next brief. Should be up before the end of the week.

6 Likes

What years will this take place?

Unsure yet. I guess I have 2 options - early 2000’s and leaving place for a 4th chapter’s in Keith’s life, or jump straight to the mid/late 2010s and close JOC1.

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That’s exactly what I would have done in the event of both of the top two opting out of hosting duties for the next stage of this JOC.

Ah, darn! Well, congrats to all the competitors!

and now for something completely a bit different…

PART 1C
EASTLEIGH, HAMPSHIRE, ENGLAND
NOVEMBER OF 2001

While they since moved to another house in the suburbs of Southampton, Keith and Amanda are still together after 9 years. Their eldest son, Tommy, is now 9 years old and a big football fan and player.

The twins are now 7 years old. Yes, twins. After Tommy, Keith and Amanda hoped for another son, but ended up with two daughters. They managed to make it work and they absolutely adore them both. It was a rough ride up to now tho.

They sold both the VW and the Régal, and purchased a newer, but still used, Régal sedan with a turbo after Amanda decided to stay at home to take care of the twins - two cars became a bit much and tight on the budget. They loved their first Régal, but Keith was not as satisfied with that newer turbo one, especially disliking the turbo lag - while super reliable, it lacked the fun of the first one they had. Amada loved it tho.

Nowadays, having to drive 3 kids to practices and friend houses, Keith and Amanda became a full time cab service. The Régal did not have enough space to fit 3 kids and all their stuff in the boot, so that was starting to become a showstopper.

Also they loved going camping, so they needed a bigger car. Also, Amanda was going to go back to work now and since they are in the suburb, they need two cars.

This is where it got dicey for them…

**They both wanted something different. **

Keith was still a kid at heart, but also fancied himself a cool dad. He wanted something flashing, or at worse a cool dad-mobile, not some clunky utilitarian thingy.

Amanda, on the other hand, wanted some kind of MPV. Safe, practical. They were all the rage then.

Many days and many pints later, they settled on some common grounds - the car will have a big hatch or liftback boot so that they have plenty of carrying space, and it needs 4 side doors and comfortably sit five.

While this ruled out many sporty cars, they still had a lot of options. Liftback sedans, estates, MPV, crossover and the like were all in play.

Also, they are now back to two full salaries, and with a few promotions in the past years, they could finally buy a brand new car, although Amanda thinks that they should be responsible and buy used.

They still bicker on everything else. Will you be able to convince both Keith and Amanda that your car is the best for them, or are you going to offer a car so dreamy for Keith that it won’t matter what Amanda thinks, with all the consequences that could result from that?


SUMMARY (important please read!!)

A family of five wants a bigger (but not too big) commuter/weekend/roadtrip car with a big liftback boot. This will be their primary car, but they plan to keep the Régal turbo around for Amanda to commute with.

Both Keith and Amanda have slightly different priorities however. Keith priorities are more important for selecting a winner since this is all about him, but convincing both of them might be important if you hope to be a finalist…

TLDR: Try to please (or at least not piss off) Amanda if you want to be a finalist, but after that Keith will take charge, whatever the consequences…


KEITH PRIORITIES

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Style - Prefers a sporty or cool look - he really does not want to look lame driving it. He is not a fan of MPVs or those new crossovers, but maybe if it’s a cool looking dad-mobile…
Fun and performance - A fun car to drive that feels exciting is preferable. It is not all about power and sportiness as he discovered with his Régal. While he does not like turbo lag, he could be convinced otherwise with a good turbo engine. He is used to a Manual transmission and he’s wondering how fun could an Automatic really be?
Comfort - They have to commute more and will constantly be driving in this car. Kids on long drive will need every bit of comfort possible.

bild
Fuel economy, service costs - He’s older now, and these are things he grew to like with the Régal, and he knows fun cars can still be competitive in those categories. Their monthly budget with 3 kids is pretty tight, so running costs are important especially if splurging for a new car…
Sportiness, Drivability - They are good drivers, he’d rather have a fun exciting drive than a smooth lame one.
Reliability - After his experience with the SAETA and then the Régal cars, he now understands why it is important.

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Safety - Keith is not a monster, safety is important, but he and Amanda are such great drivers…
Cargo Space, Practicality - Ok, it needs a big boot… but he does not mind how big or usable it actually is. They can always cram luggage in every nook and cranny. He remembers when he was a kid…
Purchase price - As long as it fits the budget… he’d love something brand new, he deserves it after years of used cars. A car is still a status symbol for him. They can always finance it.


AMANDA PRIORITIES

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Drivability - With 3 kids in the back, you constantly get distracted, it needs to be a smooth easy drive and must not be too large to maneuver. She is very comfortable with a Manual transmission and does not find automatic cars to be much more drivable, but it might be nice to not have to constantly worry about shifting with distractions in the back seat.
Safety - A pretty important feature, should have all the latest features available… at the time the car was made. Buying a used car does not mean it should be unsafe.
Reliability - Breaking down with 3 kids on the way to the campground is never good.

bild
Cargo Space, Practicality - Pretty important, they constantly have to load and unload the car. More seating than 5 is a BIG plus here (their kids do have friends) and a sliding door seems practical.
Comfort - They are used to a certain comfort level and would prefer to keep it. Not too noisy.
Purchase price - Prefers to save up for other expenses and buy a good used car or cheaper car. The more cash in their pocket, the better. You never know with 3 kids.
Fuel economy, service costs - Running costs are important, but with a few extra grands in their pocket, they could slightly higher ones.

bild
Style - She does not mind about looks, it needs to be functional… but deep down she knows she’d prefer something modern looking.
Sportiness - This is not the car for this - it’s for safely driving the kids around. She’d be a bit pissed if its too noisy or too sporty.


RULES

YEAR, CAR TRIM: 2001-2002 for brand new cars, 1995-2000 for used cars. I assume used cars will be cheaper than max price - you will most likely be at a disadvantage based on their priorities if you provide a max price used car, but it does not disqualify you.
YEAR, CAR MODEL, ENGINE FAMILY, ENGINE VARIANT: Car trim year or older
NAMING CONVENTION:
Car model/trim: JOC1C-yourname / Make and model
Engine family/variant: JOC1C-yourname/ Name of engine
ALLOWED BODIES: Liftback sedans, crossover/suv, estate/wagon and MPV. No coupe and no hatchback. Note that while sedan as liftback are in, they might be at a disadvantage here.
SEATS/DOORS: 4 side doors minimum on the model (sliding or not) and five(5) full seats or more (extra seats could be + seats).
WHEELBASE: No restrictions, but choose wisely
UK MOT: Must have at least one muffler and a catalyst, plus ABS. Unscaled UK license plates in front (white) and rear (yellow) are mandatory.
MAXIMUM PRICE: $35,000 AMU (brand new)
MAXIMUM ENGINE ET: 120
MAXIMUM TRIM ET: 120
FUEL: Unleaded premium (95 RON)
INTERIORS: Not needed and won’t be judged, but I will review it if you do provide one.
REALISM: Unrealistic engineering or styling might result in a bin, that includes, but is not limited to, race parts, semi slick tyres etc.

SUBMISSIONS OPEN: 8th of july, 23:59 (EDT / UTC-4).

SUBMISSIONS CLOSE: 24th of july, 23:59 (EDT / UTC-4). PM me the .car-file and put an ad/description in the thread before that.


Edits:

  • Changed trim/variant years to 2001-2002 for brand new
  • Budget is now 35,000 AMU
  • Added inspiration cars
  • Reworded the used car blurb to “you will most likely be at a disadvantage based on their priorities if you provide a max price used car, but it does not disqualify you.”
  • Added “Fun and performance” blurb for Keith “He is used to a Manual transmission and he’s wondering how fun could an Automatic really be?”
  • Added “Drivability” blurb for Amanda “She is very comfortable with a Manual transmission and does not find automatic cars to be much more drivable, but it might be nice to not have to constantly shift in heavy traffic.”
  • Added clarification on muffler “Must have at least one muffler”
  • Added “unscaled UK license plate in front (white) and rear (yellow)” to MOT.

Some inspirations

These might not all fit the brief completely, or be in the correct price range - but could be Keith’s idea of a dream car or some interesting idea to explore for Amanda.











car_b36f349a-4f40-47cc-bac7-aa982f4505d7_640_0





Previa-01

renault-scenic-2-16-rxt-01
s-l400
VW-Passat-sport-TDI-2001-Estate-gold

8 Likes

My first objection is, since new models are usually released in the autumn, wouldn’t brand new cars in late 2001 be 2001-2002 models (because there might always be 2001 model cars left in stock, while 2002s would be what’s new by then, while 2000 models would be (at least almost) 2 years old by then and probably not many of them left unsold at the dealers)?

Really simple good point I did not think about. Will update to 2002, there are a few new MPV models for that year as well.